Speaking of CW- their REO is still declining, even with the growth in foreclosure. I'm sure there's a good reason for the disconnect. I'm patiently waiting for BofA to explain this.
Okay. My schaudenfreude over this sort of thing has officially ended. I no longer take any form of satisfaction over this disaster. It will get worse, and the tendrils of this disaster will worm it's way through our social network, invariably affecting us all in some form or another.
That said, any form of govt. bailout is wrong, immoral, and will ultimately be ineffectual.
Wouldn't it be safer to say you don't see a problem here in the Carolinas Sebastian? At the very least the bubbliest states (FL, AZ, NV, CA) are extremely impacted by foreclosures.
p.s. the realtytrac report shows many NC counties as very high in foreclosures
That has be to be a walkaway/ruthless foreclosure. He owes 320k? Forget that he made millions just a few years ago. He still owns a very profitable wheel company. Baffling.
Conjure and I left New York on Monday for the return home. The s(7t is hitting the fan. Anyway, it is our habit to stop at truck stops and old-fashioned diners (yes, they still exist) to find out what people are thinking. We talk to a lot of people, from truck drivers to waitresses and bank managers. Folks, the attitude is bad in the northeast.
"Of the homeowners in default, an estimated 32 percent emerge from the foreclosure process by bringing their payments current, refinancing, or selling the home and paying off what they owe. A year ago it was about 52 percent. "
There are 7.9 million homes in CA. So, if CA is seeing 450,000 foreclosures a year, that's nearly 6% of all homes. That seems awfully high. Especially considering that a big chunk of homes don't even have mortgages.
Anybody know what the highest historical foreclosure rate is? I'm pretty sure Texas in the 80's wasn't this bad.
mp, that is absolutely true. The mood in these parts is really, really not good. It reaches from the upper economic rungs (lots of senior colleagues/clients at buy-side firms getting canned) to the overheard conversations on the subway to the people who work at Duane Reade ("where did all the people go?").
OK, all anecdotal, but after a while it gets to be a constant refrain.
I thought rich's comments yesterday about the people giving up entire floors of office space in Manhattan were spot on, and revealing.
From what I hear, Boston and Philadelphia are no better.
Dah like for the well informed people on this blog. However, if you were just listening to mainstream media ( like most of America ) then you're probably a misinformed or just plain ignorant BIGGER loser on your real estate investment !
A coming wave of Chinese pills is set to push down the price of generic drugs, as more low-cost finished medicines from the country win approval in major markets, according to a report on Tuesday.
Take 2 and wash down those contaminated pills with plenty of water
I don't get it? If NODs are skyrocketing, why is the number of REOs by Countrywide dropping as per Countrywide foreclosure blog site Countrywide Foreclosures (REO) Blog
Does this mean that Countrywide and others are accepting significantly higher number of short sales and workouts or is there something else behind this?
I know this is just anecdotal evidence but a friend of mine just bought a house in San Jose, Ca on a short sale. Does anyone have any data that shows short sales and workouts are ramping up and can account for the discrepancy?
Can you do a chart overlaying the monthly or quarterly NOD with the loan reset chart? i am wondering how closely they follow each other now. thank you.
What's your and Conjure's views on why Oil's up while glod's down, equities up-ish while Foreclosures skyrocket, and why Hillary is so popular amongst those economically vulnerable?
Now's definitely the time to invest in inner city property if you can. In the next 20 years we'll see a dramatic decline in the amount of available gasoline. Suburban dwellers won't be able to commute to work, so any property too far away from a major city will become worthless to those with low-moderate income. If you have property in the city, the influx could make you quite the lucky landlord.
"As lenders grow more desperate to avoid taking possession of foreclosed homes, they are offering bigger discounts at courthouse auctions, with "discounts of 40% to 50% from prior sales price common in many parts of the state," ForeclosureRadar reports. Still, the auctions are usually uneventful, and usually do not attract serious bids. "The majority of these sales received no third-party bid and reverted back to the lender despite the largest across-the-board discounts ever offered at trustee sales auctions," ForeclosureRadar reported."
Neighbor laid off from bank, 1 kid, 2 cars, $1M+ home, no income...looking hard for work for a month or two now. Not going to car washes anymore -- washing very nice cars by hand in the driveway.
Sibling has survived a second round of layoffs last week....now $lt 300 of 850 employees.
SIL & BIL divorce final. They cashed in their 401k (bankruptcy protected funds...sigh) to pay down debt, but not eliminate it. BIL laid off for 3rd time in two years. He's living on unemployment now, she's doing a low paying job until June, when she says she'll be out of money. House has no equity, and she cannot sell and rent, because she cannot bring cash to closing. These two are walking debt bombs with the pins pulled....
Cousin & spouse are trying to keep up with the house they like, but stopped paying the other. I figure they probably
cannot afford the one they like either.
Recession is when you know people in trouble, right Sebastian? So are you saying you don't know anyone who is having trouble, or are you saying you have your ears plugged?
But now that the rest of the country has caught up to the Rust Belt, isn't the Rust Belt even worse?
Anonymous | 05.13.08 - 9:48 pm | #
A lot of the traditional rust belt is doing okay - the areas that suck are either dominated by automotive (Michigan, Ohio) OR drank the coastal koolaid too (large suburb/exurbs in places like Minneapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee). The rest are no where near as bad off...
(Michigan, Ohio) OR drank the coastal koolaid too (large suburb/exurbs in places like Minneapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee). The rest are no where near as bad off...
Let's see. If we take the Rust Belt but omit Michigan, Ohio, Minneapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee, that leaves...
Recession is when you know people in trouble, right Sebastian? So are you saying you don't know anyone who is having trouble, or are you saying you have your ears plugged?
KnotRP | 05.13.08 - 10:04 pm | #
I know shockingly few people anywhere near close to real trouble right now - well except my own kids who are college age & broke but living poor like college age kids should.
By this time in the wreck cycle in '82 I knew dozens who had personally crashed & burned... In '91 the same situation - knew lots. By 2002 I knew very few who had problems (most of them through the internet - not local). Now I know almost none.
I don't think there are no issues - I think the rural Midwest is so hollowed out and 'experienced' with these kinds of things its almost like we prepare for winter - we're used to it. My guess is the folks in the swankier Midwestern suburb/exurbs will feel the bite though.
anonymouse- "why Hillary is so popular amongst those economically vulnerable?"
Short answer. Hillary's proposal on the oil tax.
Long answer. Consensus seems to be that US is ready for a woman president, but not a black one. Has nothing to do with racism. Many are fearful that an attempt will be made on Obama's life if he is elected. If the attempt is successful, the consensus among those I spoke with is that it would lead to major civil unrest.
Alas... more and more people will just have fond memories of the Golden Age of Middle class America
"Thats the country I grew up in. It was a society without extremes of wealth or poverty, a society of broadly shared prosperity, partly because strong unions, a high minimum wage, and a progressive tax system helped limit inequality. It was also a society in which political bipartisanship meant something: in spite of all the turmoil of Vietnam and the civil rights movement, in spite of the sinister machinations of Nixon and his henchmen, it was an era in which Democrats and Republicans agreed on basic values and could cooperate across party lines".
Greater Phoenix resales up on dropping median price
Sales up 13% YoY, median price down 5% MoM, 21%YoY, 22% from ATH
In the outer burgs volume is increasing as median price plummets(20-25% YoY), the interior markets are slowing as medians decrease(15%), while areas above conforming are slowing down (volume wise) while median decreases(N. Scottsdale 7% MoM).
So it appears subprime is correcting and the crunch has now moved to Jumbo land and the "safe areas". The question is whether this is the start of a trend or this was the pent up demand and sales volume goes lower again.
The Centerpoint complex is saying they're having "a hiccup" in financing but they have "deep pockets". Deep pockets help if it's one project; when it's 5 or 6 you can have Soros pockets but your backer is gonna have alligator arms.
dryfly writes:
By this time in the wreck cycle in '82 I knew dozens who had personally crashed & burned...
Could this be because you're older and not acquainted with the most at risk? Or do you think you're still among a broad enough range to see effects (if any).
Let's see. If we take the Rust Belt but omit Michigan, Ohio, Minneapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee, that leaves...
Kokomo?? Oh, and I forgot. Toledo.
Anonymous | 05.13.08 - 10:18 pm | #
Down state Illinois. Most of Wisconsin & all of outstate Minnesota. All of Iowa, Nebraska most of Missouri & Kansas... both Dakotas. Oklahoma is better off now than in any time since the early 80s. Indiana was hit hard - like Delphi - but friends running a factory north of there are swamped - turning away work (nonunion shop that does little or no automotive).
The two largest factories near me are booming so much they are advertising on signs outside their offices - haven't done that in years. I know the manager at one, says they are trying to expand but don't know where they'll get the labor. They need metal workers willing to relocate to a smallish town. Not everyone is yet.
At the same another local plant that makes built in fireplace appliances for housing is all but shut down.
Its microwave frozen burrito time again. If you are in housing/automotive or finance = end of world dead. If in ag or commodities or aero = boom. Rest somewhere in between.
"Does this mean that Countrywide and others are accepting significantly higher number of short sales and workouts or is there something else behind this"
My thoughts - CFC and others are waiting for the FHA bailout vote, to see if there's any HopeNOW. If not, I am assuming the NODs are already in envelopes with stamps, for the tsunami...
km4,
I worked from 1969 until 1972 for that 'high minimum wage' of $1.30 later $1.60, no benefits and very minimal tips from taking groceries out to cars in a hot steaming Texas parking lot. Thanks for the memories dude.
Anyway, it is our habit to stop at truck stops and old-fashioned diners
Get your kicks on Route 66. It's like the premise for an old TV series, except I don't think that Conjure Bag is the typical sidekick. Drive safely/drive friendly.
Could this be because you're older and not acquainted with the most at risk? Or do you think you're still among a broad enough range to see effects (if any).
sdtfs | 05.13.08 - 10:27 pm | #
I think folks in my world are a lot poorer than folks on the coast - I hear about million dollar homes and think they must be mansions then se the pics, they aren't. There isn't a house withing five blocks of me that would fetch more than $150K yet median family incomes are approx $60-70K (prices 2X median incomes)in this neighborhood. There just is a lot more cushion at those ratios for most of us.
We have some foreclosures - mostly spec rentals owned by non-locals that blew up or folks that moved & couldn't sell & fell behind trying to make two payments... had to choose which to lose.
I think there is a lot of US like this - more than folks know. These were the places that got unbelievably crushed in the farm crisis two decades ago. This time less so - they just aren't as over extended. They didn't make enough money to get over-extended in that short period of time.
FFDIC thx for sharing your fond memories of the Golden Age of Middle class America even though you cherry pciked what you wanted to say and ommited the factual basis of what Krugman portreyed in his chart.
BOL to you and many many Americans in the future...
Elvis writes:
People aren't admitting they are in trouble. At least, not the people that you likely know. They will.
Elvis | 05.13.08 - 10:27 pm | #
In my part of the world they can't hide it - too close to the bottom to hide it. Maybe in suburbia they can hide it until the U Hauls takes them away in the middle of the night, not in my blue collar neighborhood.
mp -I've heard the very same concern. I think it's a rationalization for people that won't vote for an african american anyhow, but maybe it's genuine?
Have you heard about obama's position on reparations enter into the discussion?
"I think folks in my world are a lot poorer than folks on the coast"
No just dumber.
LOL. Ya well in January I sometimes think so... but if dumb means you won't pay a half mil for a POS just 'cause everyone else out there is paying it then I'll take a second helping of dumb, thank you.
dryfly writes: They didn't make enough money to get over-extended in that short period of time.
I guarantee you that the tenants who moved out to buy a house here didn't make near as much money. The miracle of population density, the scams spread faster and were more lucrative.
Shnapstafarian- I know you know that's illegal,...but perhaps auctioning two different color (red/blue)rubber bands with the idea that you're superstitious about the significance?
There is a lot of racism out there, a suprising amount of it quite overt, and a greater amount just below the surface. I'm sure it's not a majority of the working class white Democrat vote (the people that would go Clinton --> McCain --> Obama) but it's a significant demographic.
barely, the reparations issue appears to be an ungrounded rumor designed to agitate the paranoid. It was pulled out of thin air, and there's nothing that I can find that indicates Obama ever advocated, supported, or endorsed the idea.
Elvis- didn't you mention you're an African American? That's the joke my South African poker buddies use,...ad nauseum,...And I think I notice the similarity in the sense of humor.
If you are like me and sometimes get the feeling that the black that you meet (e.g. at the driver's license office) are more racist than the whites that you meet, then you would be affraid to vote for Obama.
Nor would you vote for someone who has spent time in a POW camp, because people like him are psycologically scarred and do notthink like you and me.
Unfortunately, that leaves just one, and Lord knows about her...
At least I'll have time to fish the Bois Brule.
Shnapstafarian | 05.13.08 - 10:58 pm | #
I had a dream last night I moved into a houseboat (not a fancy one either - think Tom & Huck flatboat) on the river. Living in the backwaters. I woke up this morning and told my wife all about it... she just groaned... "Oh no, is that next?" Seriously.
Its all you people fault on this blog - I'm telling you!
Beemer, Spree's place is in the next neighborhood over. Maybe I should check it out once it gets listed. I'll be sure to post a link from the MLS, at least.
The lot is great, but I can't imagine what he's done with the interior décor. I'm guessing Scarface-meets-WuTang-Clan.
My day job is sitting my dad in a community of endless tract houses, 150K Birmingham Alabama range. Now I don't see folks staring out windows or wondering hopeless about, but when I bike around, I see folks moving out and not in. Endless for sale signs. And the lady across the street keeps on asking if she can sit my dad.
Now the credit card debt keeps going up so that keeps folks afloat.
I might mention, that this thing has just begun so hopelessness just has not arrived yet.
The whole mess is a moral issue rather than financial. The only way to get rich quick (Financially innovatives/CEO/etc)is to grab the monny from the greedy poor people. My guess is that people in the remote rust belt will wither this storm much better than the suburban elites due to their moral (reality based) consistency.
MP - I had the same feeling about Obama from the past history. If the president is an intellectul then what is the role of Kingmakers?
House Democrats are proposing a tax surcharge on millionaires to pay for a big increase in education benefits for veterans of the war in Iraq, lawmakers said Tuesday.
"barely, the reparations issue appears to be an ungrounded rumor designed to agitate the paranoid"
That was my impression. But after googling it I found several black oriented blogs that seem pretty keen on the idea. It might have a lot of support in the black community, and might get some attention, even if Obama doesn't outwardly support it?
Anon - that NY fed map is a little screwy. I talked to them when it first came out. Basically, each shading is relative to the queried dimension. So you can't pull up a map of CA and then another of IL and assume that like-shaded areas are the same. In other words, if it actually showed a legend key, the key would be unique to each drill-down.
Did anyone hear on This American life broadcast that one guys CDO contained pieces of 60 million mortgages? Warren Buffet has said that CDO's may become worthless because no one will ever be able to find fair value on them, too complicated.
nanya writes:
If you are like me and sometimes get the feeling that the black that you meet (e.g. at the driver's license office) are more racist than the whites that you meet, then you would be affraid to vote for Obama.
Where do I start...
First of all, the DMV is hardly the best place to gauge the nature of the black community. Visiting the DMV sucks, but you should try working there. If I had to spend all day working with surly, thankless customers, I'd be pretty cranky--cranky enough that my customers might think I was racist, whether or not that was true.
Second, your interaction with the black community is clearly limited. I don't see how you can form any meaningful opinion of the black community from an occasional trip to the DMV. Accusing a single person--let alone an entire community--of racism is a serious charge. How can you possibly base this charge on a few minutes you spent at a DMV window?
Third, I take offense to your implication that a DMV workers somehow represent typical blacks. The black folks I know are engineers, doctors, lawyers, college professors, corporate managers, etc. Just like white folks, black folks cannot be easily lumped into a single neat category. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
Finally, a vote for Obama is not a vote for "the blacks," it is a vote for a specific person. The essence of racism is judging a person on the basis of their skin color rather than on their unique attributes as a human being. If you are "afraid" to vote for Obama because he is one of "the blacks," then I submit that you can find the worst racist by looking in a mirror.
mp, 'civil unrest'? I am positive that my Mexican brethren will put down any 'civil unrest' by Reverend Wright types, at least in CA and TX. My people have lots more ex-Marines than his people.
"Finally, a vote for Obama is not a vote for "the blacks," it is a vote for a specific person"
You know, I like to think that myself. What gives me a little pause though, is when I see the exit polling results and the numbers, for example in NC, were like 95% of blacks voted for Obama. That sounds a little too lop-sided for me to think it wasn't a vote for "the black" in the race.
I have heard there can be up to 1,000 cows in a single hamburger. Whattaburger!
Possible but I doubt it. Too much work to mix meat from that many batches. But there is around 20,000 lbs in one tote, night grinding goes through one tote an hour, six(?) hour shift. Or so my son says.
And none of it is Mad Cow contaminated. So relax with your hamburger, whatever else may be in it, it is relativly non-toxic.
Dryfly: I'm up here in Fort Wayne. What I hear from folks is similar to your observations. Median family income around 45K. Median house price in Allen county is around 100K. Most folks are not that stressed with housing. April house sale prices in Allen county were up around 7% from April 2007.
Now bring up gas prices and you may start a revoulution soon....
Tax rebate won't stem U.S. recession - Merrill
["No asset class security is priced today for a recession scenario," Rosenberg said, which is why he was bullish on U.S. Treasuries but bearish on stocks.]
Assuming that number of 44,100 NODs is accurate, and given that the number of CA NODs will almost certainly significantly increase, 610,000 would be my estimate for 2008 CA NODs.
But without additional confirmation from a well know company like Dataquick, these numbers from foreclosureradar.com (or whatever they are called) don't mean much of anything to me.
Eternal optimist
Excellent comment..I see Obama in black and white, the other candidates seem to have a lot of gray in them.
Passion, people skills and someone who galvanizes the public will be sorely needed in the next 5 years.
MP-if he chooses Hilary as VP he will be safe, no one I know wants her dirty hands in there...
If you doubt Foreclosure Radar's data you could match up the first 3 months of the year reports with DQ's first quarter report.
The only difference between foreclosureradar & realtytrac monthly reports for California vs Dataquick quarterly report is that Dataquick quarterly report removes duplicates (multiple loans trying to foreclose on the same property, a property could get double counted, it isnt a major problem). So far Foreclosure Radar reports have been pretty great, timely and informative (NOD, NTS and trustee sales broken down by county). They just started later in the game so they don't have the pedigree yet.
Dryfly,in Sonoma county at the peak,median family income was $53k,median home price was $619k.And Sonoma county was not the worst...when I tell people hat our current median is still too high,and I expect it to drop to around $200-$250k they look at me as if I was nuts.I expect it to stay that high because our population and income distribution is skewed by retirees with $.The fastest growing non hispanic segment is whites 75 years old and older..
Let's not forget that Obama is not a typically black American. He is half-black, half-white; his father is African; his stepfather is an Indonesian immigrant; he spent his formulative years with his white grandparents in Hawaii.
If anything, Obama is representative of the second-generation American experience.
I overheard an elderly white lady talking to another one the other day. They were talking about the presidential race and one of them, said something like.... (I'm paraphrasing)
'I don't mind Obama himself, I'm just afraid he'll appoint a bunch of blacks to high ranking positions. They're a bunch of crooks like the person who headed HUD.'
I wasn't surprised someone had this opinion. I was surprised someone would say this in public.
"Now's definitely the time to invest in inner city property if you can. In the next 20 years we'll see a dramatic decline in the amount of available gasoline. Suburban dwellers won't be able to commute to work, so any property too far away from a major city will become worthless to those with low-moderate income. If you have property in the city, the influx could make you quite the lucky landlord."
Yeah, sure - does this "inner city investment" idea come with bullet-proof vests or submachine guns? Do you get a discount on the drugs sold on the street corner on which you live?
Sorry, but the New Urbanist idea of everyone living like ants in filthy little anthole cities is not going to happen since most people are not interested in living in poverty-stricken, crime-filled, polluted, dismal, and crumbling inner cities.
Obama is a smart guy and knows that if the smallest positive comment on reparations passed his lips he would be handing the race to McCain.
Someone upthread asserted that as gas prices rose suburbanites would return to the central cities. This is highly unlikely to happen on a broad, country-wide basis in any kind of quick time frame.
The racial makeup of most central cities is very different from most outer ring suburbs. Whatever the progress our society has made in race relations, racial tensions are still very real. While there were many reasons for the flight to the suburbs, it would be naive to assume that racial attitudes weren't a major factor. It certainly was the case in Detroit.
School systems in most central cities are in terrible shape, and the vast majority of parents would rather sacrifice in other things than send their own children to chaotic, dangerous schools.
Violent crime rates in most central cities are substantially higher than in the suburbs.
Basic commercial businesses like grocery stores and banks and major retail shopping outlets are few and far between in many central cities.
What's the opposite of cliff diving? Moon launching?
Rosebud.
As I recall, something like 2/3rds of all Cali mortgages at the top were exotic.
a foreclosure a day keeps the tan man away????
Just check out foreclosureradar.com for some of the higher end neighborhoods:
Pacific Palisades 90272
Palos Verdes 90274
Palos Verdes 90275
The flood knows no boundaries...
Speaking of CW- their REO is still declining, even with the growth in foreclosure. I'm sure there's a good reason for the disconnect. I'm patiently waiting for BofA to explain this.
Oh yeah! Time to pop open a bottle of cristal, favorite of the mortgage brokers, to celebrate!
People just walking away?
Did you see where Latrell Sprewell lost his house to forclosure today.
Sports News, Rumors, Fantasy Sports, Photos, Scores & Blogs -- FanHouse
Okay. My schaudenfreude over this sort of thing has officially ended. I no longer take any form of satisfaction over this disaster. It will get worse, and the tendrils of this disaster will worm it's way through our social network, invariably affecting us all in some form or another.
That said, any form of govt. bailout is wrong, immoral, and will ultimately be ineffectual.
Did you get the foreclosure radar report CR? They break it down by county, NOD, NTS and trustee sales.
People just walking away?
Nah, that's just a blogospherian myth.
Those foreclosures are happening only in California. Rest of the country is not affected. I do not see any problem here in Carolinas.
S.
Those foreclosures are happening only in California. Rest of the country is not affected. I do not see any problem here in Carolinas.
That is because "It's contained"......can I have my 5 bonus points for the 2fer in the same thread please
Once the commercial banks (Wach, BofA) start with their job cuts you will see the problem in the Carolina's
Wouldn't it be safer to say you don't see a problem here in the Carolinas Sebastian? At the very least the bubbliest states (FL, AZ, NV, CA) are extremely impacted by foreclosures.
p.s. the realtytrac report shows many NC counties as very high in foreclosures
http://www.foreclosurepulse.com/photos/foreclosurepulse_photos/images/8566/original.aspx
First quarter of 2008 foreclosure picture by county:
http://www.realtytrac.com/blog/photos/foreclosurepulse_photos/images/15949/original.aspx
NC/SC sure dont look immune.
That's nine CR blog posts in the same day. I believe that's the record. (We're not worthy!)
Banker writes:
Did you see where Latrell Sprewell lost his house to forclosure today.
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2...reclosed-today/
That has be to be a walkaway/ruthless foreclosure. He owes 320k? Forget that he made millions just a few years ago. He still owns a very profitable wheel company. Baffling.
"Those foreclosures are happening only in California. Rest of the country is not affected."
You are one stupid bastard.
p.s. the realtytrac report shows many NC counties as very high in foreclosures
What are the counties in the off-brown color ... no data available ?
My 5-year-old daughter thinks the graph looks like a Brachiasaurus skeleton.
It is a skeleton alright. The skeleton of our economy, but don't tell her.
I'm guessing phony sebastian.
Conjure and I left New York on Monday for the return home. The s(7t is hitting the fan. Anyway, it is our habit to stop at truck stops and old-fashioned diners (yes, they still exist) to find out what people are thinking. We talk to a lot of people, from truck drivers to waitresses and bank managers. Folks, the attitude is bad in the northeast.
It's grim, and we feel for these people.
What % of NOD's result in complete foreclosures?
Is is possible that servicers are just more aggressive about filing NODs than they were in the past? Possibly this could explain some of that.
Steelhead,
From DQ last filing:
"Of the homeowners in default, an estimated 32 percent emerge from the foreclosure process by bringing their payments current, refinancing, or selling the home and paying off what they owe. A year ago it was about 52 percent. "
68% and rising.
DQNews - Foreclosures Press Release
Oh, I forgot. Many of the truck drivers are saying they expect unleaded gasoline to be selling for $7/gallon by the end of the summer.
Having been through this before, I'm taking that to the bank.
I've heard of this California. But there are currently no foreclosures in Dubai, so I'm saying no recession.
Roubini got blasted in his site for his support for the Barney-Chris bill.
RGE - Why the Frank-Dodd Proposal for Resolving the Mortgage Crisis Makes Sense and Why the Threatened Veto of This Legislation by the White House is Reckless
The bottom of the housing market in california will be evident only when the current foreclosure buyers themselves foreclose.
There are 7.9 million homes in CA. So, if CA is seeing 450,000 foreclosures a year, that's nearly 6% of all homes. That seems awfully high. Especially considering that a big chunk of homes don't even have mortgages.
Anybody know what the highest historical foreclosure rate is? I'm pretty sure Texas in the 80's wasn't this bad.
mp, that is absolutely true. The mood in these parts is really, really not good. It reaches from the upper economic rungs (lots of senior colleagues/clients at buy-side firms getting canned) to the overheard conversations on the subway to the people who work at Duane Reade ("where did all the people go?").
OK, all anecdotal, but after a while it gets to be a constant refrain.
I thought rich's comments yesterday about the people giving up entire floors of office space in Manhattan were spot on, and revealing.
From what I hear, Boston and Philadelphia are no better.
Parabolic doesn't even describe that chart.
BTB Seb, Phoenix, LV, and FL don't look so hot either.
Read yesterday that Atlanta has houses selling for 20k. And Detroit and Cleveland...forget about it.
This is about as contained as a bow shot.
Cheers,
We talk to a lot of people, from truck drivers to waitresses and bank managers. Folks, the attitude is bad in the northeast.
Oh, boo fucking hoo.
The rest of the country is finally learning what life has been like for parts of the Rust Belt for the last 30 years. Tragic, isn't it.
Dah like for the well informed people on this blog. However, if you were just listening to mainstream media ( like most of America ) then you're probably a misinformed or just plain ignorant BIGGER loser on your real estate investment !
"Roubini got blasted in his site for his support for the Barney-Chris bill."
Roubini is an optimist.
I'm with alec. The REAL sebastian is a lot more clueless, since he includes obscure irrelevant references to defend his position, like wrightB.
Here's some good news on the medical front...
A coming wave of Chinese pills is set to push down the price of generic drugs, as more low-cost finished medicines from the country win approval in major markets, according to a report on Tuesday.
Take 2 and wash down those contaminated pills with plenty of water
I don't get it? If NODs are skyrocketing, why is the number of REOs by Countrywide dropping as per Countrywide foreclosure blog site
Countrywide Foreclosures (REO) Blog
Does this mean that Countrywide and others are accepting significantly higher number of short sales and workouts or is there something else behind this?
I know this is just anecdotal evidence but a friend of mine just bought a house in San Jose, Ca on a short sale. Does anyone have any data that shows short sales and workouts are ramping up and can account for the discrepancy?
But now that the rest of the country has caught up to the Rust Belt, isn't the Rust Belt even worse?
Can you do a chart overlaying the monthly or quarterly NOD with the loan reset chart? i am wondering how closely they follow each other now. thank you.
mp,
What's your and Conjure's views on why Oil's up while glod's down, equities up-ish while Foreclosures skyrocket, and why Hillary is so popular amongst those economically vulnerable?
I am not phony Sebastian. You bears are delusional - not only about your bearish thesis, but also believe any optimist out there is phony.
S.
Clintons are here for the poor. They will make you one, if you are not.
Now's definitely the time to invest in inner city property if you can. In the next 20 years we'll see a dramatic decline in the amount of available gasoline. Suburban dwellers won't be able to commute to work, so any property too far away from a major city will become worthless to those with low-moderate income. If you have property in the city, the influx could make you quite the lucky landlord.
"As lenders grow more desperate to avoid taking possession of foreclosed homes, they are offering bigger discounts at courthouse auctions, with "discounts of 40% to 50% from prior sales price common in many parts of the state," ForeclosureRadar reports. Still, the auctions are usually uneventful, and usually do not attract serious bids. "The majority of these sales received no third-party bid and reverted back to the lender despite the largest across-the-board discounts ever offered at trustee sales auctions," ForeclosureRadar reported."
A 40 to 50% is too puny.
Let's see now....
Neighbor laid off from bank, 1 kid, 2 cars, $1M+ home, no income...looking hard for work for a month or two now. Not going to car washes anymore -- washing very nice cars by hand in the driveway.
Sibling has survived a second round of layoffs last week....now $lt 300 of 850 employees.
SIL & BIL divorce final. They cashed in their 401k (bankruptcy protected funds...sigh) to pay down debt, but not eliminate it. BIL laid off for 3rd time in two years. He's living on unemployment now, she's doing a low paying job until June, when she says she'll be out of money. House has no equity, and she cannot sell and rent, because she cannot bring cash to closing. These two are walking debt bombs with the pins pulled....
Cousin & spouse are trying to keep up with the house they like, but stopped paying the other. I figure they probably
cannot afford the one they like either.
Recession is when you know people in trouble, right Sebastian? So are you saying you don't know anyone who is having trouble, or are you saying you have your ears plugged?
But now that the rest of the country has caught up to the Rust Belt, isn't the Rust Belt even worse?
Anonymous | 05.13.08 - 9:48 pm | #
A lot of the traditional rust belt is doing okay - the areas that suck are either dominated by automotive (Michigan, Ohio) OR drank the coastal koolaid too (large suburb/exurbs in places like Minneapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee). The rest are no where near as bad off...
French Bank Plans to Raise $9.1 Billion
Relief on Société Générale's Profit Report - NY Times
1000 Foreclosures per Day in California
Actually, per the article it's 1000 foreclosures every weekday, but whatever.
Let's see. If we take the Rust Belt but omit Michigan, Ohio, Minneapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee, that leaves...
Kokomo?? Oh, and I forgot. Toledo.
Recession is when you know people in trouble, right Sebastian? So are you saying you don't know anyone who is having trouble, or are you saying you have your ears plugged?
KnotRP | 05.13.08 - 10:04 pm | #
I know shockingly few people anywhere near close to real trouble right now - well except my own kids who are college age & broke but living poor like college age kids should.
By this time in the wreck cycle in '82 I knew dozens who had personally crashed & burned... In '91 the same situation - knew lots. By 2002 I knew very few who had problems (most of them through the internet - not local). Now I know almost none.
I don't think there are no issues - I think the rural Midwest is so hollowed out and 'experienced' with these kinds of things its almost like we prepare for winter - we're used to it. My guess is the folks in the swankier Midwestern suburb/exurbs will feel the bite though.
I have decided that an awful lot of Americans were very good at hiding their economic problems from their friends and neighbors for a long time.
Now, there's no reason to hide anymore.
Everybody...just get it out there.
anonymouse- "why Hillary is so popular amongst those economically vulnerable?"
Short answer. Hillary's proposal on the oil tax.
Long answer. Consensus seems to be that US is ready for a woman president, but not a black one. Has nothing to do with racism. Many are fearful that an attempt will be made on Obama's life if he is elected. If the attempt is successful, the consensus among those I spoke with is that it would lead to major civil unrest.
mp,
Thx.
Alas... more and more people will just have fond memories of the Golden Age of Middle class America
"Thats the country I grew up in. It was a society without extremes of wealth or poverty, a society of broadly shared prosperity, partly because strong unions, a high minimum wage, and a progressive tax system helped limit inequality. It was also a society in which political bipartisanship meant something: in spite of all the turmoil of Vietnam and the civil rights movement, in spite of the sinister machinations of Nixon and his henchmen, it was an era in which Democrats and Republicans agreed on basic values and could cooperate across party lines".
see chart
Introducing This Blog - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
Greater Phoenix resales up on dropping median price
Sales up 13% YoY, median price down 5% MoM, 21%YoY, 22% from ATH
In the outer burgs volume is increasing as median price plummets(20-25% YoY), the interior markets are slowing as medians decrease(15%), while areas above conforming are slowing down (volume wise) while median decreases(N. Scottsdale 7% MoM).
So it appears subprime is correcting and the crunch has now moved to Jumbo land and the "safe areas". The question is whether this is the start of a trend or this was the pent up demand and sales volume goes lower again.
The Centerpoint complex is saying they're having "a hiccup" in financing but they have "deep pockets". Deep pockets help if it's one project; when it's 5 or 6 you can have Soros pockets but your backer is gonna have alligator arms.
People aren't admitting they are in trouble. At least, not the people that you likely know. They will.
Seb,
"You bears are delusional - not only about your bearish thesis, but also believe any optimist out there is phony."
A bit silly as the recession is here.
As to optimists are phony...well no...incorrect...phony, no.
Cheers,
dryfly writes:
By this time in the wreck cycle in '82 I knew dozens who had personally crashed & burned...
Could this be because you're older and not acquainted with the most at risk? Or do you think you're still among a broad enough range to see effects (if any).
Let's see. If we take the Rust Belt but omit Michigan, Ohio, Minneapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee, that leaves...
Kokomo?? Oh, and I forgot. Toledo.
Anonymous | 05.13.08 - 10:18 pm | #
Down state Illinois. Most of Wisconsin & all of outstate Minnesota. All of Iowa, Nebraska most of Missouri & Kansas... both Dakotas. Oklahoma is better off now than in any time since the early 80s. Indiana was hit hard - like Delphi - but friends running a factory north of there are swamped - turning away work (nonunion shop that does little or no automotive).
The two largest factories near me are booming so much they are advertising on signs outside their offices - haven't done that in years. I know the manager at one, says they are trying to expand but don't know where they'll get the labor. They need metal workers willing to relocate to a smallish town. Not everyone is yet.
At the same another local plant that makes built in fireplace appliances for housing is all but shut down.
Its microwave frozen burrito time again. If you are in housing/automotive or finance = end of world dead. If in ag or commodities or aero = boom. Rest somewhere in between.
Anonymouse, I should add that many I spoke with like Obama, but are fearful of voting for him for the reason mentioned previously.
Fascinating. Don't vote for the guy because you like him. Only in America.
As for gold and stocks, not tonight. I am exhausted. So many people, too many notes.
"Does this mean that Countrywide and others are accepting significantly higher number of short sales and workouts or is there something else behind this"
My thoughts - CFC and others are waiting for the FHA bailout vote, to see if there's any HopeNOW. If not, I am assuming the NODs are already in envelopes with stamps, for the tsunami...
OT.
Has anyone heard if Obama is in favor of reparations ? Not sure if I'll vote for someone
or against someone. Neither instill confidence.
km4,
I worked from 1969 until 1972 for that 'high minimum wage' of $1.30 later $1.60, no benefits and very minimal tips from taking groceries out to cars in a hot steaming Texas parking lot. Thanks for the memories dude.
Anyway, it is our habit to stop at truck stops and old-fashioned diners
Get your kicks on Route 66. It's like the premise for an old TV series, except I don't think that Conjure Bag is the typical sidekick. Drive safely/drive friendly.
Could this be because you're older and not acquainted with the most at risk? Or do you think you're still among a broad enough range to see effects (if any).
sdtfs | 05.13.08 - 10:27 pm | #
I think folks in my world are a lot poorer than folks on the coast - I hear about million dollar homes and think they must be mansions then se the pics, they aren't. There isn't a house withing five blocks of me that would fetch more than $150K yet median family incomes are approx $60-70K (prices 2X median incomes)in this neighborhood. There just is a lot more cushion at those ratios for most of us.
We have some foreclosures - mostly spec rentals owned by non-locals that blew up or folks that moved & couldn't sell & fell behind trying to make two payments... had to choose which to lose.
I think there is a lot of US like this - more than folks know. These were the places that got unbelievably crushed in the farm crisis two decades ago. This time less so - they just aren't as over extended. They didn't make enough money to get over-extended in that short period of time.
FFDIC thx for sharing your fond memories of the Golden Age of Middle class America even though you cherry pciked what you wanted to say and ommited the factual basis of what Krugman portreyed in his chart.
BOL to you and many many Americans in the future...
Elvis writes:
People aren't admitting they are in trouble. At least, not the people that you likely know. They will.
Elvis | 05.13.08 - 10:27 pm | #
In my part of the world they can't hide it - too close to the bottom to hide it. Maybe in suburbia they can hide it until the U Hauls takes them away in the middle of the night, not in my blue collar neighborhood.
dryfly
"I think folks in my world are a lot poorer than folks on the coast"
No just dumber.
Cheers,
wow
well that is something
mp - that has got to be the most unique theory I have yet heard on the democratic race.
I really can't imagine more than a handful of voters thinking like that, tho.
I won't even vote in the general election. Quite honestly, I hate all choices pretty much equally at this point. Maybe I'll sell my vote on ebay.
all them foreclosures i mea
mp -I've heard the very same concern. I think it's a rationalization for people that won't vote for an african american anyhow, but maybe it's genuine?
Have you heard about obama's position on reparations enter into the discussion?
"I think folks in my world are a lot poorer than folks on the coast"
No just dumber.
LOL. Ya well in January I sometimes think so... but if dumb means you won't pay a half mil for a POS just 'cause everyone else out there is paying it then I'll take a second helping of dumb, thank you.
dryfly writes: They didn't make enough money to get over-extended in that short period of time.
I guarantee you that the tenants who moved out to buy a house here didn't make near as much money. The miracle of population density, the scams spread faster and were more lucrative.
Shnapstafarian- I know you know that's illegal,...but perhaps auctioning two different color (red/blue)rubber bands with the idea that you're superstitious about the significance?
There is a lot of racism out there, a suprising amount of it quite overt, and a greater amount just below the surface. I'm sure it's not a majority of the working class white Democrat vote (the people that would go Clinton --> McCain --> Obama) but it's a significant demographic.
Good story about the same topic in the WaPo today: Racist Incidents Give Some Obama Campaigners Pause - washingtonpost.com
barely, the reparations issue appears to be an ungrounded rumor designed to agitate the paranoid. It was pulled out of thin air, and there's nothing that I can find that indicates Obama ever advocated, supported, or endorsed the idea.
people that won't vote for an african american
Elvis- didn't you mention you're an African American? That's the joke my South African poker buddies use,...ad nauseum,...And I think I notice the similarity in the sense of humor.
dryfly - so I guess I'm 'end of world dead', then?
Great.
At least I'll have time to fish the Bois Brule.
If you are like me and sometimes get the feeling that the black that you meet (e.g. at the driver's license office) are more racist than the whites that you meet, then you would be affraid to vote for Obama.
Nor would you vote for someone who has spent time in a POW camp, because people like him are psycologically scarred and do notthink like you and me.
Unfortunately, that leaves just one, and Lord knows about her...
EXCELLENT re-cap of this.
YouTube -
Mr. Mortgage.
At least I'll have time to fish the Bois Brule.
Shnapstafarian | 05.13.08 - 10:58 pm | #
I had a dream last night I moved into a houseboat (not a fancy one either - think Tom & Huck flatboat) on the river. Living in the backwaters. I woke up this morning and told my wife all about it... she just groaned... "Oh no, is that next?" Seriously.
Its all you people fault on this blog - I'm telling you!
Alaska is 99% African American (59+)
Daily Kos: Dear Keith Olbermann & Superdelegates: Hillary Failed in West Virginia
That's why Obama won the state, didn't Terry McAuliffe send you that memo yet?
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:06:32 PM PDT
First Canseco, now Latrell Spreewell...
Sprewell's house foreclosed - JSOnline
Wall off Cali, before it's too late.
Like no one wants to off Hillary...
Beemer, Spree's place is in the next neighborhood over. Maybe I should check it out once it gets listed. I'll be sure to post a link from the MLS, at least.
The lot is great, but I can't imagine what he's done with the interior décor. I'm guessing Scarface-meets-WuTang-Clan.
"Wall off Cali, before it's too late."
US Credit Conditions - Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Sorry to late, check foreclosures by alt-a and subprime some are worse the Cali.
My day job is sitting my dad in a community of endless tract houses, 150K Birmingham Alabama range. Now I don't see folks staring out windows or wondering hopeless about, but when I bike around, I see folks moving out and not in. Endless for sale signs. And the lady across the street keeps on asking if she can sit my dad.
Now the credit card debt keeps going up so that keeps folks afloat.
I might mention, that this thing has just begun so hopelessness just has not arrived yet.
The whole mess is a moral issue rather than financial. The only way to get rich quick (Financially innovatives/CEO/etc)is to grab the monny from the greedy poor people. My guess is that people in the remote rust belt will wither this storm much better than the suburban elites due to their moral (reality based) consistency.
MP - I had the same feeling about Obama from the past history. If the president is an intellectul then what is the role of Kingmakers?
"Like no one wants to off Hillary..."
House Democrats are proposing a tax surcharge on millionaires to pay for a big increase in education benefits for veterans of the war in Iraq, lawmakers said Tuesday.
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Someone is going to get an ass pounding for that little comment.
"barely, the reparations issue appears to be an ungrounded rumor designed to agitate the paranoid"
That was my impression. But after googling it I found several black oriented blogs that seem pretty keen on the idea. It might have a lot of support in the black community, and might get some attention, even if Obama doesn't outwardly support it?
spree's place. - strike that
I meant the 'crib' at 850 e dean rd
Anon - that NY fed map is a little screwy. I talked to them when it first came out. Basically, each shading is relative to the queried dimension. So you can't pull up a map of CA and then another of IL and assume that like-shaded areas are the same. In other words, if it actually showed a legend key, the key would be unique to each drill-down.
Crap, I know. But it got them loads of attention.
Did anyone hear on This American life broadcast that one guys CDO contained pieces of 60 million mortgages? Warren Buffet has said that CDO's may become worthless because no one will ever be able to find fair value on them, too complicated.
o, nobody heard that Tim.
Its friggin right there at 50:30-51:00, sorry it said 16 million.
I think someone needs to call a bottom at the juncture so nobody panics, therefore......
I think it's contained and the bottom is in
=) [/sarcasm]
Well, I don't know how much that really matters. I have heard there can be up to 1,000 cows in a single hamburger. Whattaburger!
I don't understand Space Shuttles myself, they're very complicated, so they are worth nothing. I think I'll have another Coke.
shnaps any relation to the other shnaps? It matters if 5% of those cows had Mad Cow disease.
nanya writes:
If you are like me and sometimes get the feeling that the black that you meet (e.g. at the driver's license office) are more racist than the whites that you meet, then you would be affraid to vote for Obama.
Where do I start...
First of all, the DMV is hardly the best place to gauge the nature of the black community. Visiting the DMV sucks, but you should try working there. If I had to spend all day working with surly, thankless customers, I'd be pretty cranky--cranky enough that my customers might think I was racist, whether or not that was true.
Second, your interaction with the black community is clearly limited. I don't see how you can form any meaningful opinion of the black community from an occasional trip to the DMV. Accusing a single person--let alone an entire community--of racism is a serious charge. How can you possibly base this charge on a few minutes you spent at a DMV window?
Third, I take offense to your implication that a DMV workers somehow represent typical blacks. The black folks I know are engineers, doctors, lawyers, college professors, corporate managers, etc. Just like white folks, black folks cannot be easily lumped into a single neat category. To suggest otherwise is wrong.
Finally, a vote for Obama is not a vote for "the blacks," it is a vote for a specific person. The essence of racism is judging a person on the basis of their skin color rather than on their unique attributes as a human being. If you are "afraid" to vote for Obama because he is one of "the blacks," then I submit that you can find the worst racist by looking in a mirror.
mp, 'civil unrest'? I am positive that my Mexican brethren will put down any 'civil unrest' by Reverend Wright types, at least in CA and TX. My people have lots more ex-Marines than his people.
shnapstafarian is when I'm on my safari browser - get it?
friggin' stoopid, I know.
Not sure I can appreciate your Mad Cow analogy.
"Finally, a vote for Obama is not a vote for "the blacks," it is a vote for a specific person"
You know, I like to think that myself. What gives me a little pause though, is when I see the exit polling results and the numbers, for example in NC, were like 95% of blacks voted for Obama. That sounds a little too lop-sided for me to think it wasn't a vote for "the black" in the race.
I have heard there can be up to 1,000 cows in a single hamburger. Whattaburger!
Possible but I doubt it. Too much work to mix meat from that many batches. But there is around 20,000 lbs in one tote, night grinding goes through one tote an hour, six(?) hour shift. Or so my son says.
And none of it is Mad Cow contaminated. So relax with your hamburger, whatever else may be in it, it is relativly non-toxic.
Dryfly: I'm up here in Fort Wayne. What I hear from folks is similar to your observations. Median family income around 45K. Median house price in Allen county is around 100K. Most folks are not that stressed with housing. April house sale prices in Allen county were up around 7% from April 2007.
Now bring up gas prices and you may start a revoulution soon....
Tax rebate won't stem U.S. recession - Merrill
["No asset class security is priced today for a recession scenario," Rosenberg said, which is why he was bullish on U.S. Treasuries but bearish on stocks.]
Tax rebate won't stem U.S. recession - Merrill
| Reuters
Assuming that number of 44,100 NODs is accurate, and given that the number of CA NODs will almost certainly significantly increase, 610,000 would be my estimate for 2008 CA NODs.
But without additional confirmation from a well know company like Dataquick, these numbers from foreclosureradar.com (or whatever they are called) don't mean much of anything to me.
Eternal optimist
Excellent comment..I see Obama in black and white, the other candidates seem to have a lot of gray in them.
Passion, people skills and someone who galvanizes the public will be sorely needed in the next 5 years.
MP-if he chooses Hilary as VP he will be safe, no one I know wants her dirty hands in there...
JD,
If you doubt Foreclosure Radar's data you could match up the first 3 months of the year reports with DQ's first quarter report.
The only difference between foreclosureradar & realtytrac monthly reports for California vs Dataquick quarterly report is that Dataquick quarterly report removes duplicates (multiple loans trying to foreclose on the same property, a property could get double counted, it isnt a major problem). So far Foreclosure Radar reports have been pretty great, timely and informative (NOD, NTS and trustee sales broken down by county). They just started later in the game so they don't have the pedigree yet.
Dryfly,in Sonoma county at the peak,median family income was $53k,median home price was $619k.And Sonoma county was not the worst...when I tell people hat our current median is still too high,and I expect it to drop to around $200-$250k they look at me as if I was nuts.I expect it to stay that high because our population and income distribution is skewed by retirees with $.The fastest growing non hispanic segment is whites 75 years old and older..
re: barely
Hillary was polling really well among African Americans early on, and has done progressively worse as the race went on.
Given some of the things that campaign has said, if I were black I might be as interested in voting against her as for someone else.
Obama doesn't sound very bright at all. He's a vessal for a lot of wishful thinking like Kennedy.
Let's not forget that Obama is not a typically black American. He is half-black, half-white; his father is African; his stepfather is an Indonesian immigrant; he spent his formulative years with his white grandparents in Hawaii.
If anything, Obama is representative of the second-generation American experience.
"My people have lots more ex-Marines than his people."
jg | 05.14.08 - 12:02 am | #
Small correction jg...No such thing as a x-Marine. Lots o former Marines but the saying is "Once a Marine always a Marine". Carry on.
Chris
I overheard an elderly white lady talking to another one the other day. They were talking about the presidential race and one of them, said something like.... (I'm paraphrasing)
'I don't mind Obama himself, I'm just afraid he'll appoint a bunch of blacks to high ranking positions. They're a bunch of crooks like the person who headed HUD.'
I wasn't surprised someone had this opinion. I was surprised someone would say this in public.
obama isn´t a black american. His forfathers didn´t suffer under american slavery and segregation.
"Now's definitely the time to invest in inner city property if you can. In the next 20 years we'll see a dramatic decline in the amount of available gasoline. Suburban dwellers won't be able to commute to work, so any property too far away from a major city will become worthless to those with low-moderate income. If you have property in the city, the influx could make you quite the lucky landlord."
Yeah, sure - does this "inner city investment" idea come with bullet-proof vests or submachine guns? Do you get a discount on the drugs sold on the street corner on which you live?
Sorry, but the New Urbanist idea of everyone living like ants in filthy little anthole cities is not going to happen since most people are not interested in living in poverty-stricken, crime-filled, polluted, dismal, and crumbling inner cities.
I think I see a trend
Obama is a smart guy and knows that if the smallest positive comment on reparations passed his lips he would be handing the race to McCain.
Someone upthread asserted that as gas prices rose suburbanites would return to the central cities. This is highly unlikely to happen on a broad, country-wide basis in any kind of quick time frame.
The racial makeup of most central cities is very different from most outer ring suburbs. Whatever the progress our society has made in race relations, racial tensions are still very real. While there were many reasons for the flight to the suburbs, it would be naive to assume that racial attitudes weren't a major factor. It certainly was the case in Detroit.
School systems in most central cities are in terrible shape, and the vast majority of parents would rather sacrifice in other things than send their own children to chaotic, dangerous schools.
Violent crime rates in most central cities are substantially higher than in the suburbs.
Basic commercial businesses like grocery stores and banks and major retail shopping outlets are few and far between in many central cities.
If reparations is in the cards, I'd vote for Obama.
As a white guy, it'd be great to get some recompense for the affirmative action employment and educational bias against me my whole life!
Chris, you are correct, and I stand corrected.
This wimpy former Navy guy will try to do some pushups for penance, now.
YIKES!
Anyone with some brain mass casn see that the housing market is in freefall now. Even Including the realwhores.