Well, how much of America's retirement funds are actually loaned back to themselves on the value of their houses?

We shall see shortly.

I guess that Reggie M is right again!

I can hardly wait. More regulation, and lower profits? Well, at least banking might once again make some profits!!!

Someday this war's gonna end...

“But another contributing factor was perhaps not so obvious: liberalized underwriting standards,”

Damned liberals. I told you they were the cause of all this!

OT:

Emerging market economies starting to scale back energy subsidies....

FT Link

BTW there is no more historically reliable indicator of the terminal stages of speculative excess than bubbly art. Though in this case it does seem that we are taking it to new extremes:

The Art Trading Fund, which describes itself as the world's first "regulated fine art hedge fund...

This is the same art you'll see wasting away in the bottom of cellars and back of caves in WWIII movies a few decades from now because the markets completely dissolved amidst political strife and mediums of commerce collapsed along with cities and borders.

And by the time things stabilize people will have their priorities straight and be saying: "Pffft... any 7 year old could do that."

Quick congress needs to set up an GSE for HELOCs otherwise the market will determine rates.

"not so obvious"

Seriously?
Whatever his salary, he's overpaid.

Is Haloscan performing street magic with anyone else?

Yes Anonymouse, it says 38 Visitors Online, and that you are the first poster here...

Has anybody seen jumbo rates lately?

Median APR is over 7% in AZ, FL & NC, but only 5-3/4 in CA

CR - thanks for tracking this stuff on the "Delinquency Contagion". Think we're seeing your long progged spread of bad mortgages across all the rest of the stuff. However I think the problem is both wider and has deeper consequences. Right off the bat this means several more round of the writedown goat rodeos. But with a weakening economy this contagion is going to spread over into consumer and business loans. Tried to capture the feedback loops in this graphic:
TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a tiny URL

FWIW.

If it's anywhere in the ballpark somebody will tell me when it's time to be scared ? Right...guy...guys ?

It's when the rollercoaster first starts its slow descent from the very top, that is when you start to get that sick feeling in your stomach....

That nice man Mr. Bernankie will get this mess straightened out don't you worry.

Residential real estate should never have been allowed to become an "investment". It was such a bad idea to treat something so critical as a speculative investment. Suddenly rent control is looking like a really good idea.

HELOC's were similarly a terrible idea. If you want your money out, sell.

Why sell when you can tap out your HELOC and default. A good con artist could conceivably pull $250K while having paid only around $30K for two years living in the house. Sounds like a sound investment plan for those who hate work, have sliding scale ethics, and could never accumulate like that at 60 hr/wk jobs for 10 years. Whoopie!

a sound investment plan for those who hate work, have sliding scale ethics...

Your speaking of mortgage brokers, lenders, and Wall Streeters?

Oh and I forgot "good con artist"

"Suddenly rent control is looking like a really good idea."

That must be why landlords in California are trying to outlaw it through Prop. 98 in the upcoming primary, disguised as eminent domain reform.

As an ex-employee of the OCC (although not while Mr Dugan was there, thank dog) I wish I could say I was surprised.

It's the same crap that happens with every other bubble: "the banker is my friend, the banker is my friend, the banker is -- oh crap, it's hit the fan, what do we do now?!" I loved the job, was there a long time (almost 30 years) but finally got tired of the BS of accepting stupid concepts from bankers because "we don't want to piss them off."

BTW, the Glass-Stegall repeal, followed shortly thereafter by Enron (wherein Citi engaged in every activity they had promised they wouldn't do, and then got a slap on the wrist when caught) was part of the last straw for me. The other part was the handwriting on the wall that we were going to be "discouraged" from doing the kind of enforcement work on home mortgage lending that needed to be done. No one said "don't look at it." Just no time was budgeted to allow it to be done. Much easier to look at the same old commercial loans year in and year out.

Dog forbid you actually analyze where your risk is....

"Suddenly rent control is looking like a really good idea."

That must be why landlords in California are trying to outlaw it through Prop. 98 in the upcoming primary, disguised as eminent domain reform. - Bob Dobbs

Think of rent control as phased eminent domain. Legislature wouldn't address e-d so they got an axe instead of a scalpel.

But hey, if rent control is a good idea then you won't mind making it rure rent control in the spirit of the minimum wage. Rent minimums and if you lose a renter you can apply for unrentered assistance.

S&p cuts Moody's rating.

Reminds me of the three stooges. Fitch, S&P, and Moody

"why I outta!" - Moody's

Moody's Commercial Paper Rating May Be Cut, S&P Says (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

YOU KNOW Bush is going to sign off on the Foreclosure bailout plan. He will just frame the issue differently and call it the "War on Foreclosure" so Republicans can get on board.

"If you are not with us then you are with the walkaways"

I'm a Massachusetts liberal who's never voted for a Republican in my life, I'm for a national health service, for increased taxes on the wealthy, and most of the rest. But rent control is bullshit.

Within a few years, it will reward the lucky at the cost of the unlucky. Keep it in place for 40-50 years and you end up with New York's system of arbitrary rent subsidies. I knew a woman who was widowed with all the kids long gone, who had a very nice 3-bedroom apartment in mid-town Manhattan. The market price on that would have been astronomical. Meanwhile there are families with three kids crammed into apartments half the size and paying twice as much.

If you want to subsidize rents, you need to allocate money for vouchers or something like that.

Vouchers, no rent control; very good, Bob!

Don't like rent control - OK, just so long as we agree the current system of housing doesn't work either. Whatcha gonna do when all those baby boomers want to downsize from their McMansions? Don't look at me, I won't buy one.

Illogical Planner: "BTW, the Glass-Stegall repeal, followed shortly thereafter by Enron (wherein Citi engaged in every activity they had promised they wouldn't do, and then got a slap on the wrist when caught) was part of the last straw for me. The other part was the handwriting on the wall that we were going to be "discouraged" from doing the kind of enforcement work on home mortgage lending that needed to be done."

Ooh. I suggest a nice long guest post from IP on this subject. My appetite has been whetted.

How about everyone calling the president at '3AM' asking for the housing bailout bill to be vetoed? OK 3AM was a joke.
Instead of sitting on our sorry a*ses and complaining, why don't we all do something that works? If lobbying is the only way, then so be it. I'm sure we have enough fire power amongst us to push this bill away for a year or two.

Can someone tell me what "not a capital issue" means?

hey Bob,

Quit spending my money!!! And Tanta's. And CR's. And Rich's. and....

how about we leave subsidies out of it. a HUGE part of this country's $45 trillion in liabilities is because 35% of the pouplation is leaching off the 62% that actually work and produce ideas.

If YOU want to subsidize it, then write a check. The same goes for Buffett and Gates - if they're so against getting rid of the estate tax, then they can go write an extra check to the IRS and not file a refund (per their wills). So can you, give it a try. If you want to pay more taxes then just write an extra check, but leave this Libertarian out of it. I don't speak for your money, so quit speaking for mine.

"they are not in and of themselves likely to be large enough"

No...It's when you're already capital constrained from your other problems is this a capital problem.

"But hey, if rent control is a good idea then you won't mind making it rure rent control in the spirit of the minimum wage. Rent minimums and if you lose a renter you can apply for unrentered assistance."

Didn't say it was a good idea. Said it looked like one. It's a bandaid when the economics of housing are out of control. Long-term, the answers are ending easy $$$ for speculative investing, and zoning laws that ensure sufficient housing where it's needed.

The Prop 98 people are selling prop 98 as anything but ending rent control. Whatever your ideology, any law that you have to lie into existence is crap law.

Can somebody point me at a good writeup on the effects of, and the limitations on, the banks ability to delay recognition of losses on these HELOCS along with their Subprime and Alt-A (and soon Prime) mortgages.

I've heard it said that Japan brought on their "Lost Decade" by not recognizing losses. Zombie banks and companies and all. But how does it actually play out? And can/would it also delay the full necessary drop in asset prices (which should be happening, absent Fed interventions and mark-to-fantasy accounting)?

Let's just impose a own-time, 50% net wealth tax on Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. That should help for a quarter.

um, considering that some of those guys making most of that "our" money being spent came up with the "innovations" that got us into this, I'm not sure I know where those 35/62 numbers should properly be allocated. Not to mention the 3 that are floating mid-air.

Welcome to

Home
Equity
Loan
Losses

Scav -

3% is my guestimationg of people who are handicapped (phycically or mentally) who need social services as they cannot take care of themselves. I'm not heartless.

I also know that the people at the end of every off ramp in America have 2 arms and 2 legs and claim they need my money. All this after one of the biggest building booms this country has ever seen. All you needed to make $6-$20/hour was... 2 arms and 2 legs... and the willingness to dig a ditch. 20 million Mexicans haven't been "too good", but an ENORMOUS swath of "Americans" were. Why?


I've heard it said that Japan brought on their "Lost Decade" by not recognizing losses

Stephen Colbert doesn't see race.

I can't recognize losses. I just can't do it. CEO material?

12th Percentile, you lost me with that one...

  1. Fed Governor Randall Kroszner (voter), speaking at a conference of state bank supervisors, said that mortgage markets will recover slowly and that the key to recovery is better risk management. "Recovery in the mortgage markets will take time and will require more market and regulatory discipline," Kroszner said. He also called on banks to limit the current foreclosure crisis, with greater transparency and less complexity in credit instruments.

U.S. house prices fell 0.4% month-over-month in March following February's revised 0.4% gain, and declined 1.7% quarter-over-quarter in Q1 compared to a previous 0.1% gain, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) reported Thursday. The quarterly fall was the largest decline on record. The consensus had been looking for a 1.3% quarterly pullback in Q1.

U.S. mass layoffs actions, involving 50 or more employees from a single firm, came in at a seasonally adjusted 1,308 reading in April, falling from 1,571 in March, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Thursday. The number of initial claims fell by 23,242 from the previous month to 133,914 in April.

2: 10:07 am - Ding : Trade remains offered with stops getting chased while the short end leads the way off. The market is getting tagged as the world is forced to consider oil costs and their implications. The run off is a head fake but the momentum is picking up and that bigger, longer push is likely to gain steam. The 10-yr took out the 3.885% yield and will see the next speed bump at 3.935%. The curve has been bent steeply steeper, with the 2-10-yr yield spread running at 140.2 after a run to near 135.

I know, let's have skanky hanky tell us a bedtime story about how all the big banks lived happily ever after.

"All you needed to make $6-$20/hour was... 2 arms and 2 legs... and the willingness to dig a ditch. 20 million Mexicans haven't been "too good", but an ENORMOUS swath of "Americans" were. Why?"
gamma | 05.22.08 - 8:26 pm | #

gamma,
Sadly I hate to say it but it is 100% lack of work ethic or direction in life. I look at it this way...as long as slackers don't wan't to go into the manual trades it's more work and money for me...

Chris

.
.
AllenM writes:
Seattle S-I gave you a workable number, I still wouldn't buy now.

Just take a look at the angle of that cliff, and contemplate your investment looking like that in a couple of years.

It is becomming increasingly apparent that America is awash in houses, and will not need to build any for the foreseeable future.

Absorbing that excess will take years- like to 2012 and beyond in some areas.

So if you really think it is a good idea to buy- go right ahead- after all your mind seems to be made up.

Someday this war's gonna end...
AllenM | 05.22.08 - 2:53 pm | #


AllenM,

Thanks and I appreciate that number you gave me. I was just running it up the "flag pole" to see if there are any other willing to comment.

Just feel "unfortunate" that she is moving into the Top MSA in the nation for house price appreciation (+8%) according to OFHEO.

Note the auctioneer is even advertizing that on their web site.

"Wenatchee is currently ranked NUMBER ONE in the top 20 real estate markets in the US! (Source: OFHEO)"

Northwest Auctions - Builder Liquidation

I am probably driving over the mountains (Stevens Pass on US 2) this Sunday to view some open houses.

SS
.
.

Emma Anne --

Can someone tell me what "not a capital issue" means?

"Earnings" is what you make. "Capital" is what you've got.

He is saying that losses on these instruments will hurt net earnings at the largest banks, but not actually cause those net earnings to become negative. (To a first approximation, positive earnings result in an increase in capital; negative earnings result in a decrease in capital.)

The implication being "'tis a mere flesh wound".


12th Percentile, you lost me with that one...

Have you ever watched Colbert? He claims he can't see race. He'll look at a black guest and say, "are you black? Really? I'll take your word for it because i don't see race"

I see a similar pattern with our bankers who don't "recognize losses". Colbert's guests are black. These banks have large losses. Both claim to not see that reality. Works for me. I'm willing to bet my SKF has a good future. Not quite as good as my SRS, but still healthy.

If you want to subsidize rents, you need to allocate money for vouchers or something like that.

vouchers just end up in the pockets of the landlord, too.

The only way to "control" rents is to tax them instead of taxing income or sales.

cf. the Georgist 'single tax'

I don't speak for your money, so quit speaking for mine.

gamma, this left-libertarian sez redistribution is necessary since there are too many greedheads like you in our society for voluntary, private charity to actually be as effective as socialist, extra-market solutions. You can see this by just learning from how the rest of the world works rather than living inside your Randian "got-mine-screw-you" thought-bubble.

Granted, to really screw things takes a government, but there is nothing truer than a society gets the government it deserves.

What the heck, Dugan is talking about! These guys are under the influence of substances even on the job. Who cares about earnings. Ask any good investor, how important it is to preserve the capital.

Unlike first liens, most HELOC's will be a total writeoff - of 100%.
So I think that as defaults rise, you're going to have to see complete writeoffs of those assets, not just a decline in earnings so to speak....

Congress completed an override of President George W. Bush's veto of the $289 billion farm bill on Thursday, enacting it as law except for its trade section, which was deleted by a clerical error.

Business & Financial News, Breaking US & International News | Reuters.com

Short Bucky.

Rent control is not a subsidy. It's a price control. The property owner would like to convince you that the rent-controlled tenant is getting a subsidy, and pretend it's some kind of free lunch, but he's not--he's getting the privelege of paying a government-regulated price. If the apartment next door pays a market rate, it's just an unregulated price next door. That's all.

From Nouriel Roubini's latest post:

Indeed foreclosures at CFC doubled to 1.44% of unpaid principal from last year; late payments advanced to 7.2% of unpaid balances from 4.6%; Countrywide's bank holds $61bn in deposits by end 2007, has already borrowed more than $51 billion from the Federal Home Loan Bank system and is now maxed out in its ability to borrow further. Moreover, about 75% of the $79.5 billion of loans held as long-term investments by Countrywide Bank are either option ARMs or home-equity loans.

Add to this the “hundreds of federal fraud, racketeering, truth-in-lending and other claims” that are in the pipeline and the billions and billions of implicit liabilities deriving from such tsunami of litigation.

So, unless a miracle occurs the BAC-CFC deal is now dead on arrival and CFC will end up bankrupt (the bank subsidiary into a FDIC receivership and the holding company into Chapter 7 liquidation.

He is convinced that the deal will fall through, and that the gov't will have to clean up the BK mess, with equity holders getting zero.

What is a comptroller? I see the word 'troll' in it. Could I get the job?

S.

BAC the ultimate walkaway of 2008?

How likely is it that the next administration, likely Democrat, could actually do anything to keep house prices from falling? Wouldn't they cause the dollar to crash and send fuel prices to the moon?

The 2008 election is the equivalent to swapping captains of the Titanic. There are events and realities that are already set in motion and will need to play themselves out over years.

I just E-mailed Fleck,

He said that HELOC losses cannot be hidden. The banks have to write them down after 90 days.

What is a comptroller? I see the word 'troll' in it. Could I get the job?

Only if you get compt.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU SPELL COMPPED? COMP-ED?

unirealist,

Thanks for the Roubini post. I loved
to read his blog when I could afford it.

sorry that was 180 days.

When HELOCs go 180 days without payment, they must be written off.

From Fleck

WELLS FARGO (WFC) = Potential 2008-9 HELOC CRISIS "GROUND ZERO"..

Total home equity exposure (outstanding plus unused lines) relative to capital of Wells Fargo is a whopping 369%....but most importantly...concentrated in some of Wells Fargo's favorite geographical customer hot spot (as in "meltdown) states...California, Arizona, & Nevada (Lost Wages).

imo

DH, it looks like the RGE Monitor gave up on the whole "only paying customers allowed" thing quite a while back. Of course, I only read his blog, so can't say about his other content. I get in to read/post comments just fine with the original "free trial" login, and am not a member. I think the good doctor is too busy to spend as much time on the blog as he used to, though.

Interesting...

Pimco’s chief piles into mortgage debt

Gross triples holding to more than 60%

from FT.com

"Pimco’s chief piles into mortgage debt"

this like when US govt backstopped
Mexico bonds. Classic value investing.
does not always work though.

Sadly I hate to say it but it is 100% lack of work ethic or direction in life. I look at it this way...as long as slackers don't wan't to go into the manual trades it's more work and money for me...

I see enormous waste and lack of productivity in white-collar, service-related office America. There are vast numbers of workers who accomplish very little in the course of many given days except meetings and motion. There aren't any real productivity metrics or expectations. Paper gets shuffled from desk to desk and ideas get bounced from meeting to meeting, and a lot just ends up in the trash.

I think there is room and now motive to slash huge fat out of these white-collar workplaces. A lot of the corporate travel is useless and wasteful and now with high gas and plane fares it's getting slashed. Without so much travel, white-collar companies will figure out they don't need so many people.

Younger people, in particular, don't come out of colleges these days with a sense of hitting daily or weekly production quotas or targets. It's not taught anywhere in their backgrounds, schools or homes. Their idea of productivity is to look at a computer screen or piece of paper, doodle a few comments, and send it on to the next desk down the row.

Pathetic values and work ethics.

Rich,
...and "hitting daily or weekly production quotas or targets" is the your idea of productivity? Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the idea of productivity You sound like my grandfather, who has been dead for twenty years.

OT: If you're following the Moody's misratings, this is priceless: NakedShorts: That Moody’s investigation in fool I

OT, from the WSJ(Cash, this article says a lot about inflation expectations, at least from my POV:

Losing a Mint:
Curb on Coin Sales Angers Collectors

U.S. Begins Rationing Popular 'Silver Eagles';

The coins, each containing about an ounce of silver, have become so popular among investors seeking alternatives to stocks and real estate that the U.S. Mint can't make them fast enough. In March, the mint stopped taking orders for the bullion coins. Late last month, it began limiting how many coins its 13 authorized buyers world-wide are allowed to purchase.

Is it mostly speculation, or savers trying to preserve their wealth?

In any case, the price of PMs seems to be heading back up, and I'm sure that doesn't please the Fed.

Losing a Mint: Curb on Coin Sales Angers Collectors - WSJ.com

And another indication that inflation continues to deplete the fuel in Ben's fleet of helicopters...

Yuan Set for Biggest Weekly Gain in 2008 as China Curbs Prices

May 23 (Bloomberg) -- The yuan headed for its biggest weekly gain of 2008 on signs China is accelerating the currency's appreciation to battle inflation as oil prices rose to a record.

Yuan Has Biggest Weekly Gain in 2008 as China Battles Inflation - Bloomberg.com

Rent control is a (small) part of the current mess. It discourages affordable housing and exacerbates the price increases pushing everybody to "buy now". It's not as bad as current zoning practices, but I wouldn't miss it.

Suddenly rent control is looking like a really good idea.

When you have more physical housing than there are households to put into it, what happens to rents?

Hint: they don't go up.

U.S. Begins Rationing Popular 'Silver Eagles'

Dum-de-dumdum.

I see enormous waste and lack of productivity in white-collar, service-related office America.

So true, rich. As my wife opines, "if you can't explain your job to someone in one short sentence, you don't have a real one."

Few on this blog might agree with this (Cobra driver would), but this country's real productivity has been plummeting for decades. Most white-collar work is a waste of time, and worse, the real producers have to support all the white-collar workers.

Sorry guys, but I tip my hat to the truck drivers, mechanics, farmers, miners, engineers, and (god bless my wife) teachers. Without them all the fancipants would starve.

And meanwhile, on another planet --

- NY Times

Moody's is starting to look like a really giant racket. Errors in their methods that go ignored, and now further evidence of caving in to banks demands to keep getting the business.

And all the while the hacks at economy.com who signed on with them, the biggest hack of all Zandi, blindly ignored the housing bubble making up all sorts of absurd reasons for why it doesn't exist.

Absolutely a big fat digusting turd of a firm.

No conflict of interest here, no.

People don't live in communities anymore. We don't talk to our neighbors anymore... we're too busy working to get ahead... and buy the latest toys, and have the biggest house. Although I don't like living in a 1000 sqft apartment, I've got to wonder what the energy bill is going to look like for someone living in 3000 sqft!

Yes, of course people are buying precious metals... my dollars are going to be back by the full faith and credit of Gold-ETF... not that I like having something like "paper gold" but "paper gold" seems to be doing a whole lot better than this "paper money" thing...

I see enormous waste and lack of productivity in white-collar, service-related office America.

There is no waste in white collar America. They have been busy for the last 20 years shipping those jobs of "hard working" Americans off shore. They've been busy looting the equity in people's homes while taking in huge management fees. In case you hadn't noticed, the rich have done very well thanks to all those lazy white collar workers.

It is the height of hypocrisy for folks in the blog to whine about the loss of the work ethic while simultaneously supporting trade and business policies that ecourage the elimination of manufacturing jobs in the USA.

The chickens really have come home to roost.

Paul said:
There is no waste in white collar America. They have been busy for the last 20 years shipping those jobs of "hard working" Americans off shore.

But comon man! We've had such fun watching our 401(k)'s expand... it'll be more fun watching them contract (well the dollars will stay the same but yeah... it'll contract). We're saving money! Your such a buzz kill... those people who were offshored weren't being productive... and anyways, that money goes further in the Philipines and China! I can only house, and feed 1 American family for what it takes to house and feed 10 Chinese families! This is fantastic and much better to society than keeping Americans employed... I mean, I might be an American, my parents might've been American... and my grandparents and ancestors all American... but profit is the American way... its how my family would've wanted it! Additionally, my boss asked me to save money, I offshored that job, and it saved money! In fact it's easy money... so easy you don't even need to do a silly analysis on long-term-impacts other than looking at the cost of sending that job to China! I mean so what if eventually everyone who knows how to make what we're making speaks Chinese, I can learn how to speak Chinese too... and so what if they have more relaxed environmental standards... MONEY! Think about the money dude!

If you're complaining about offshoring than obviously your one of these new breed lazy American's yourself! Find yourself a useful skill... after all you should be able to educate yourself... why is it more expensive?

Disgusting, it's like the Internet is teaching you!

YSLP - EXACTLY!! Smile

I'm off to work for a lazy day of internet surfing for $92K per year. Wow - I need a raise.

The wildcard in the CFC collapse is the Congressional bailout. The bill that passed the House is a rescue of some of the rot in CFC's portfolio. Bush has a veto-threat, but if the Senate "compromise" passes the taxpayer is going to be on the hook for 500,000 crappy loans.

Rich,
...and "hitting daily or weekly production quotas or targets" is the your idea of productivity? Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the idea of productivity You sound like my grandfather, who has been dead for twenty years.

Every work day for the last 25 years, I woke up in the morning with a list of things I have to get done that day in my head. If I get them all done, it's been a good day. If not, it's been a failure.

What was so wrong with your grandfather?

And, lo, a really swell explanation of why we are in this HELOC (and other loan) mess:

"I'm not here to help, I'm here to sell you something:" Confessions of a BofA personal banker:

The Consumerist: Search Results

Tinfoil time:

Isn't Moody's the one that's finally blowing the whistle on some of the monolines? Could the recent stuff about the whitewashed computer mistake be some kind of payback?

Yuan Set for Biggest Weekly Gain in 2008 as China Curbs Prices

That's like the safest currency bet. I put I bunch of cash into a yuan money market account and the gain is already more than a $ MM would have earned for the year.

What's the over/under on existing home sales today? If CR's earlier Cali posts are representative, then a bounce is in order, in which case we'll have to endure a full day of cnbc trotting out the bottom callers (again)...

What is a comptroller? I see the word 'troll' in it. Could I get the job?

Maybe it's just 'cause it's a Friday morning, but kudos, Seb - this one made me laugh.

Simple question: would tighter underwriting practices put a lid on price bubbles?

Bloddy -

Sounds like a sound investment plan for those who...could never accumulate like that at 60 hr/wk jobs for 10 years.

I fixed it for you. There is nothing more to it than that.

People aren't stupid, and they know when the game is rigged - there is nothing particularly amoral or indolent about refusing to be gamed in an unfair system.

If anyone ever does anything about the raping (short-term stripping) of value from the economic system - think copper pipes in foreclosed houses - by the CEO/'Investor Class', then perhaps you'll be able to persuade the little guy that he really should be a good little worker bee and try to squirrel away by working 60/wk.

--
OT...

Expect an upside surprise on Existing Home Sales. Price declines have lured some people into thinking that foreclosure are great bargains right now.

Jas

I put I bunch of cash into a yuan money market account and the gain is already more than a $ MM would have earned for the year.

Folks that are doing this, do keep in mind that these funds are exposed to profound political risk. It used to be that that this was less true for the buck but having political risk on both sides of a currency trade is not a stabilizing effect.

China is as much a part of this bubble as America and they are as trapped by their overcapitalization and inadequate administrative means as we are by our handicaps. Just because it's farther away doesn't make it better, it just makes it hard to see the details.

I have friends who have reported on conditions there to me and it is a dumping ground for misallocated capital routed to its destination by guanxi and people's brother-in-law down at the bank.

Some of you may remember me as one of the people who un-suppressed the E&Y Chinese NPL report a few years back, and conditions have not improved materially. I don't really want to get into the specifics, and of course it's anecdotal, but I think they are going to take as big a nut-shot as the US.

IMO, both dynasties are at serious risk, and if you think that you can predict where and when that nascent risk will mature, I think you are kidding yourself.

It is the height of hypocrisy for folks in the blog to whine about the loss of the work ethic while simultaneously supporting trade and business policies that encourage the elimination of manufacturing jobs in the USA.

There's a difference between manufacturing / operations jobs and a manufacturing / operational mindset.

I'm as big an adherent of Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage as anyone. If we can place our country's workforce into higher-skilled, more value-added jobs by sending lower-skilled grunt-work offshore, I'm all for it.

The problem is that the C-levels in American businesses want carte blanche as far as the second phrase in that sentence above while washing their hands of anything to do with the first phrase. They want all gain and no pain.

So we're sending all these manufacturing-related jobs away, but without a plan in place to "upskill" the workers left behind, and certainly with no clue how to teach our workers or students to apply that hundred years of American operational expertise to their new higher-skilled jobs.

No, we'd rather send the message that it's easier and more lucrative to just "chase the money" as it lurches from bubble to bubble. Which has produced tens of thousands of people my age who have spent their last decade as at least two of the following: dot-com business development manager, day trader, real estate agent, mortgage broker, hedge fund manager, VC, Wall Street quant, or "consultant" specializing in small business / software / defense / real estate / finance / emerging markets / outsourcing.

Believe it was dryfly who suggested sending one's kids to college to study engineering, whether or not they had any real interest in it. In a lot of ways he makes a good point - not so much from teaching the "work ethic" you reference as that, when the hard times come and the axe in the white-collar world starts cutting into muscle, who's still going to be necessary? People who can operationalize issues, turn theory into reality, and solve complex problems. There aren't a lot of English-lit majors turned corporate Powerpoint jockeys whom I'd say fulfill those qualities.

To DH at 11:14

Roubini is free if you do the free registration--this is as of a month or so ago.

There aren't a lot of English-lit majors turned corporate Powerpoint jockeys whom I'd say fulfill those qualities.

I'm a professional writer who works closely with companies, and I also have children who have gone through high school recently.

There's a shocking lack of attention to writing skills in the U.S. today in businesses and schools. We're becoming a nation of illiterates.

The ability to write coherently ties into the ability to think and work productively, especially in the white-collar world. Laziness in learning fundamentals like sentence structures and punctuation translates into bad work habits and ethics. I see this even in kids who are heading off to Ivy League schools.

If you have the disipline to speak or write in two or more languages, which most Europeans and many Hispanics do, you are way ahead of most dumbo Americans.

I like this board because the bloggers and many bloggees are very good writers.

OT - Deficit in non-borrowed reserves way up in past two weeks -
from -84191 to -110565

FRB: H.3 Release--Aggregate Reserves of Depository Institutions--December 3, 2009 

Pimco’s chief piles into mortgage debt

Gross triples holding to more than 60%

This doesn't sound like a guy who thinks interest rates are going to rise unless I'm missing something about mortgage backed securities.

I still say he's betting that spreads between treasuries and agency debt are going to narrow.

rich,
My wife is a Spanish instructor. Some of her clients are the management team of a Fortune 500 company. Most of the children she teaches are from the uppper class extreme upper middle class.
Doesn't that tell a story?

rich,
My wife is a Spanish instructor. Some of her clients are the management team of a Fortune 500 company. Most of the children she teaches are from the uppper class extreme upper middle class.
Doesn't that tell a story?

"Comptroller" is an antiquated term for "Controller". It's only used in governmental posts these days.

Bob_in_MA -
"That's like the safest currency bet. I put I bunch of cash into a yuan money market account and the gain is already more than a $ MM would have earned for the year."
Now how exactly did you do that? Please let us know the name of the money market account and the bank that did it for you.
Yuan is not a freely traded currency and from what I understand is limited to $10,000 for folks like you and me (non-China folks).

The ability to write coherently ties into the ability to think and work productively, especially in the white-collar world.

No disagreement from me here - in fact with regard to the required qualities for white-collar success in my response to Dry, I mentioned two buckets - "operational thinking / problem-solving" was the first and "communications ability" was the second.

If you ever want a depressing testament to our lack of same in today's educational system, wander into a bookstore specializing in old books and pick up a late-19th / early-20th century school primer. The complexity of the language being taught to, and the command of vocabulary and comprehension expected of, second- and third-graders in those days would flummox a large percentage of today's high schoolers!

And that's another skill that too much of white-collar America views in isolation - everything is spreadsheets and bullet lists, to the point that it's what everyone else expects. Why, if someone can't communicate what something is or why it works, you should expect them to be able to make it work at all - it's a question that's too often unthought, and certainly untaught.

We won't need production quotas in an economy based on caring and sharing.

Mooksaid: If we can place our country's workforce into higher-skilled, more value-added jobs by sending lower-skilled grunt-work offshore, I'm all for it.

This is something I've never quite understood.

How was the country's grunt-work force supposed to feed itself once the level of value-added jobs exceeded its competence level?

It seems to be a topic that's anathema to discuss, but the preponderance of the population is, dare I say it, normal, average, not terribly talented*, nor imaginative. I'm not criticizing, it's just the way it is. Pretending that the grunt-force can become software developers or systems analysts "if only it acquired the retraining," is one of the absurdities that has, and is going to further, bite us in the ass.

  • Years of acquired experience can produce a modicum of competence.

So, how do people of middling intelligence feed themselves when suitable jobs are no longer available?

Average people need something to do. Necessities are one reason; self-esteem is another.

Government stipend?

At what point will the masses no longer be able to afford the (transportable) necessities no matter where they come from?

Mook @ 10:21 am
- Very Prescient Post
- Incorporating Into My Comments Today
- Turn Of Century Texts Not Like What You Described*:
-- In 1900 only "superclass" taught from those books
-- Most of America poor, illiterate farmers

Premise and conclusion of this post is incorrect!

*Source: Wikipedia

Its my understanding that beer leads to heroin, and that rent controls lead to arson...

k

I was going to write more or less exactly what Anonymous Bosch wrote.

We're not Lake Wobegon and everyone is not above average. We also need jobs that don't require superior intellect or expensive college and post-grad. educations to "qualify".

Rich, on writing skills, a sad article here:
In the Basement of the Ivory Tower - The Atlantic
(June 2008)

I think what he means by not a capital even is that from a regulatory capital standpoint that HEL and HELOCs are risk weighted the same as unsecured loans. While their losses are rising, they are still below other unsecured consumer loss rates (e.g. credit cards). While the loans are not priced for the risk they have, the banks have the capital to take the losses without going into receivorship, though they could have to raise capital to maintain their ratios.

Emma Anne,

Not in the next 15 min or anything like that, but I have an opportunity relatively soon (next 3 or 4 weeks) where I will have some time for writing. Would that satiate your whetted appetite?

Also, please accept that some discretion will be involved. But probably not a lot.

The ability to write coherently ties into the
ability to think and work productively,
especially in the white-collar world.
Laziness in learning fundamentals like
sentence structures and punctuation
translates into bad work habits and ethics.

Ethics? Is that why investment bankers ran amok -- a poor ability to write coherently?

Methinks you think writing is critically important because you are a professional writer. Don't confuse self importance with importance. It's important for many jobs, but so are a lot of other skills.

"You can see this by just learning from how the rest of the world works rather than living inside your Randian "got-mine-screw-you" thought-bubble."

eh, I cant help but notice that you couldn't refute him. You only called him names.

Without resorting to name calling, just answer the question. What gives you the right to take what someone else has earned?

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