The high gas prices probably saved my marriage! Yes, my husband's poor ego, being a gasp renter vs. my belief that buying a house here and now would be a huge mistake battle has ended. While looking for houses last week, he stopped to fill up and of all things, the machine cut him off at $75.00, before the tank was even full!
Miles driven is down 4.3 percent, but watching gasoline consumption at: This Week In Petroleum Gasoline Section has shown gasoline consumption to be down only about 0.7-2.3% ... so people are switching to even less fuel efficient vehicles?
Part of it could be the DOE's method of short term gasoline demand is off (look at the jump from march long term to short term in the bottom graph) (but still, that yields the about 2.3% drop of consumption). Or it could mean that the only people cutting down in miles are the ones who's shifted to more fuel efficient cars. The ones with the F550's with 4 back tires, and the expeditions with low air pressure just keep on driving. How can one keep up appearances with an SUV in the driveway?
still, 16% rise in fuel prices YOY to get a 1-2% reduction in demand? That's a bit inelastic.
I have been noticing that gas prices are starting to vary significantly by geographical area. Gas prices in California, Illinois, and Michigan used to be very consistent within each state.
Unfortunately, I did not save any images of old gas temperature maps from Gasbuddy.com, but here is one from May 19th (via The Big Picture).
In the past, gas price variations within CA/IL/MI were very small. This is no longer the case. I think gasoline demand is starting to do some Cliff Diving (tm)!
I thought peak oil was supposed to be in 30-40 years. If that is actually true, this little excercise is a good thing, and scaring us into changing our ways is another good thing.
tj & the bear, I thought the most recent data showed the highest ever production (it just came out). So we might be close, but we are not to peak oil production yet.
Part of the reason, IMHO that vehicles miles aren't dropping comensurate with rising prices for gas is that there is so much latent demand for driving constricted roads. as soon as demand eases for the road by one party, another party finds that value of using the road in terms of reduce commute time (vis a vis transit or what would have been a more congested commute) offset increases gas costs
Say I drive 13 miles to work each way; @ 26 mpg that's 8 bucks in gas round trip, or $2 more than I paid last year. Meanwhile parking is $10/day and value my time at $50/hour during work hours when I could be producing income. Gas is still a small part of the fiscal equation.
I wish I could be as hopeful. I'm a veteran of the energy conservation/alternatives programs started under Pres. Carter after the oil price shocks in the 70's.
We had great ideas, great funding and a strong sense of mission. It seemed as if America was finally getting it.
Yet, shockingly few of those programs made it through the first few years of the Reagan administration -- and no President since has implemented any significant number of programs to replace them.
CR,
You have this post labeled "oil." IMO that is largely not the reason. Responses to even larger marginal increases as we've seen recently are relatively demand inelastic. To get drops like these requires a "recession" label.
re: oil peak - The Oil Drum: Europe | Oilwatch Monthly - May 2008 liquids had a peak this year in january, and crude had a new peak in feb at 74.66 mbpd, assuing it doesn't get revised down. My WAG for liquids peak is 88 mbpd, and 76mbpd for crude.
You're right (of course)! Looks like February reached a new all-time high of 74.66mbd for crude oil, besting January by 226,000bd -- which itself was barely above levels achieved in 2005. We'll have to see if it's more than a temporary blip.
I get it that the increase in gas prices has likely caused demand to drop over the last few months. But what caused it to flatten so clearly over the last 2+ years?
cathyG: maybe the earlier increases in price and rumblings of peak oil caused the flatening. It's not like last few summers were the cheapest gas on record.
I agree with your analysis, but that's not the way MOST people think -- particularly people on a fixed salary.
MDs, lawyers, accountants, individual business owners, etc. who are missing "billable hours" by a long commute would figure as you did. Plus a few others who WANT to get to work because they love it or because they want to impress the boss.
I have been telling the marketwatch people that oil is going to drop significantly after this summer. They think we are headed towards end times and advised me to buy gold, ammunition, food and oil. People are scared, no doubt.
I have been telling the marketwatch people that oil is going to drop significantly after this summer. They think we are headed towards end times and advised me to buy gold, ammunition, food and oil. People are scared, no doubt.
Maybe. But not if central banks keep giving traders the means and motivation to hoard supplies and manipulate markets for profit.
The more oil prices go up, the more inflows there are into commodity ETFs, the more incentives there are to "hide" things where they shouldn't be.
I love when folks look at higher gasoline prices in a vacuum...calculating what the net change in the gas bill has been.....completely missing the fact that energy is a component of ALL of their expenses. Sure your fixed mortgage payment and your other contracted costs may not move, but everything else will!
a local heating oil vendor was telling me (in dismay) that people reduced their consumption of heating oil dramatically this past winter. He said he thought that in many cases, they weren't buying enough to really keep warm.
Say I drive 13 miles to work each way; @ 26 mpg that's 8 bucks in gas round trip, or $2 more than I paid last year. Meanwhile parking is $10/day and value my time at $50/hour during work hours when I could be producing income. Gas is still a small part of the fiscal equation.
Flotown
more Perfect Statistical Analysis prejected from one's own experience to eveyone in the nation.
CathyG writes:
I get it that the increase in gas prices has likely caused demand to drop over the last few months. But what caused it to flatten so clearly over the last 2+ years?
Bob writes:
Why do you assume gasoline price is the only factor which could reduce demand?
I was projecting this from as long ago as the 2000 Census. VMT had been set to peak and even decline due to a number of demographic and transect factors. The key to watch will be average vehicle occupancy.
The highest grade of oil-light, sweet crude-peaked in 1999. The latest peak included things like the output from Canadian Tar Sands, which is a fancy way of turning bitumen, nat gas, and water into something like crude oil. There is a bit of comparing apples and oranges in these numbers, if they don't get revised down (as so many of the gov't numbers seem to be bogus anyway).
And I nearly forgot-the latest peak is just barely over the previous monthly peak set back in May of 2005. Even if the new peak isn't just statistical noise, it still isn't good news. The population has gone up faster than that!
"The key to watch will be average vehicle occupancy." ... Average commute length may have peaked, increase in telecommuting/4 day weeks also. Lots of stuff going on here
It'll be fascinating to see how businesses respond to the needs of their employees. I work for a small non-profit in LA. We've been exploring numerous options ranging from telecommuting to extending business hours four days a week and giving employees alternate Fridays or Mondays off.
Gasoline consumption (and therefore VMT) is inelastic in the short term (around -0.25), but much more so in the medium or long term - if gasoline prices stay high (-0.6). There are quite a few studies on this - but they are dependent on other factors such as location and economic drivers.
As for fuel sales, the accuracy of fuel sales data depends on where the data is collected. If it is at the terminal rack (a Canadian term) then, there is quite a bit of variability depending on when fuel deliveries occur through the pipelines (only one type of fuel is delivered in one batch, so if a batch of gasoline is delivered right before the close of a reporting period one year and after the close of a reporting period of the next, there can be big swings). Data on fuel sales at the pump tend to be quite a bit more refined (but harder to collect).
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit
"giocatoli writes:
lookin forward to anecdotal evidence of this in santa cruz CA over this weekend..."
Good effing luck; if you don't get your tail up over the summit of 17 by 9 am you're in parking-lot mode on a typical summer Saturday, much less Memorial Day.
"Bits_of_Real_Panther writes:
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit"
County of Santa Cruz has the "Highway 17 Express" commuter bus service from Santa Cruz County to key spots in Santa Clara County, and it's packed full. And they don't have the money to acquire or operate more buses.
LA: High gas prices have contributed to a 5 percent growth in Metro Rail ridership in the past year including record ridership on the Metro Gold Line from downtown Los Angeles to Pasadena. News Release - Metro Board Adopts FY09 Budget
Bits_of_Real_Panther writes:
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit
Not really. LACMTA (Los Angeles)has their data up to date: Ridership Statistics
Ridership is flat y-o-y. Up slightly for rail lines, down for bus.
The point is; would this have happened without the massive relative increase in transit subsidy. The policy question for the transit welfare agencies, BART, LACMTA, etc. is why in the face of unprecedented cost increases and rising demand they refuse to implement even token fare increases. If transit is so popular as is being claimed there should be no problem getting riders to pay say half the costs? For BART that would require ~25% across the board. Ref: http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/profiles/2006/agency_profiles/9003.pdf
My brother is a social science professor, he studies resourse use, says other academics are saying this could be peak oil based on Saudi oil fields possibly peaking in the klast couple of years. 30-40 calculations for peak oil were based on peak Saudi oil in 30-40 years. Basically, Saudi oil peak = peak oil.
It'll be fascinating to see how businesses respond to the needs of their employees. I work for a small non-profit in LA. We've been exploring numerous options ranging from telecommuting to extending business hours four days a week and giving employees alternate Fridays or Mondays off.
It suggests that an independent contractor model (1099) could flourish in the U.S., with individuals working for companies but working as contractors, not W-2 employees.
There's just one big problem. I've been a 1099 contractor for a long time. But I couldn't do it all over again today, starting out from scratch, and having to pay my own health insurance premiums. 1099s get reamed on health insurance. So, to make it all work, we need national health insurance.
All the policies we need (energy, health) seem to be coming but too late to stop a crash.
FT Woods,
Cool both of us linking the exact same MTA data and getting diametric answers. You should learn to read MTAspeak with a jaundiced eye. For instance look at the average weekday boarding by line and try to find that 5% anywhere except the expanded Gold Line.
Here's an interesting tidbit about the Highway 17 express bus - It actually turns a profit. At least it does when it runs full.
Rob,
BART increased its fares 5.4% in January and probably will do so again next January. They're also talking about raising parking fees and have just increased parking fines for those who don't pay the fees.
"All the policies we need (energy, health) seem to be coming but too late to stop a crash."
Without a crash, such reforms won't come. For major changes to happen in society, a vast number of comfortable people need to become uncomfortable at the same time.
BART increased its fares 5.4% in January and probably will do so again next January. They're also talking about raising parking fees and have just increased parking fines for those who don't pay the fees.
Where's my $2.00 gas? Seriously, $2.00 per gallon is far less of a subsidy to drivers than the current fare structure is to BART riders and BART is one of the least money losing agencies in the nation.
Rob,
I think they're including the new Orange Line under rail even though it's a bus on a dedicated road. It's had a 20K increase in boardings. Unfortunately, the trend lines only show average weekday boardings for bus lines not rail lines.
The Metro begins introducing turnstiles next year. I'll be curious to see the statistics once they're installed city wide.
I take the train from time to time. You may not like it, but I think it's a great investment for the city. Commerce has definitely grown around the transit hubs. East LA will come online soon. It's amazing how fast new easy access changes the economics of an area.
I didn't mean to start a debate about transit subsidies, just trying to point out that there are several factors at work in declining VMT, most of which are in response to $3.50-4.00 and now $4.00+ gas. These are short-term effects, whether or not urban form will change to bring about long-term effects is much more complicated
I'm struck by the correlation of a halt in the increase in miles traveled and recession of economic activity. That makes the plateau in miles driven the last two years especially striking.
Re: disparity between Veh.Mi.Trav. vs. Gasoline sales.
Over a decade ago I worked in the field of transportation economics. This web link gives the detailed estimates by type of road (3) and Urban/Rural split.
VMT is based on about 4000 fixed vehicle counters (as I recall, about 280 in California), so there are not a lot of data points.
The DOT travel model estimates the VMT, that is based largely on the "counts" at these fixed sites. Therefore, cetera paribus, the drop in VMT reflects the reduction in "counts" at certain specific locations. From the website, you can see that the largest declines were in "Rural Interstate" and "Urban Interstate". There was actually an increase in "Other urban" counts (i.e., mileage estimate).
Arterial driving uses about 20% more fuel/mile than high-speed driving (provided the driver stays around the speed limit). The implication is that drivers are substituting short-distance trips for the longer treks. They are shopping closer to home, but the increased gallons/mile partly offsets the reduced miles traveled.
ChefVisar,
Another factor in the switch to more local travel is driver/trip remodeling as the IHS has been neglected to the point of congestion and disrepair.
Looks like something momentous is afoot...
tj & the bear | 05.23.08 - 6:31 pm | #
Conservation maybe?
Wade writes:
I'm for the 4 day work week Aimlessdriver.
Wade | Homepage | 05.23.08 - 6:32 pm | #
Considering the lines of traffic I saw streaming out of Chicago & Milwaukee today (heading out on a long weekend) - we might be better off from an energy conservation perspective if we chained them to their cubicles LONGER as opposed to having them 'save energy' by not coming to work one less day a week.
Rob Dawg writes:
Winston,
Anon was me, I'm sometimes using a different laptop while recovering.
Anyway, BART recovers 50% of operating costs or 40% of total costs via fares. See NTD previously referenced.
A 50% operating subsidy to drivers would be nearly free gas.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.23.08 - 7:39 pm | #
Dawg you need to embrace mass transit more - I did long ago and never looked back. In act I am more in favor of it everyday. I wish everyone used it - far less congestion for me if they did. Subsidizing other people's use of mass transit is a small price to pay compared to a lifetime spent in congestion.
The Fun of 3-Day Weekends...
- American Market will be Closed on Monday
- Potential for Overseas Market Decline
- Fed has some Formula for Tuesday AM Rate Cut (overseas losses of 3%?)
- This Happened Less Than 5 Months Ago
dryfly writes:
Dawg you need to embrace mass transit more - I did long ago and never looked back. In act I am more in favor of it everyday. I wish everyone used it - far less congestion for me if they did. Subsidizing other people's use of mass transit is a small price to pay compared to a lifetime spent in congestion.
This is part of how we got here. We make bad policy decisions because of distorted incentives. We are arguing about getting people to pay more than the 25% of their transit costs they pay now. Perverse incentives and moral hazard are fingers of the same hand. We've wasted billions inducing people into urban forms that we are unlikely to be able to continue to subsidize. Transit is fine if we can establish market price signals with which to base policy. Does anyone here not believe the housing demand that caused so much overbuilding was distorted by lending practices? If you accept that then the distortion of massive transit subsidies should be even more disturbing.
I get a contrarian CR alert. When even CR comments on high oil/gas prices, the top must be either in or very nearby. I think I will go short oil on Monday/Tuesday (even if only for a short period of time). But the peak (price, not production) is close at hand. Maybe we'll go higher in June after a short but nasty drop, but that's about it.
Nevermind the peak-oil sect and doomsayers. They are as much off as Jas.
"AllenM writes:
Total demand is actually cratering.
This is not a drill, gas prices have been rising slower than normal, as sales have fallen, stuffing the channels.
Now, how come heating oil (near to diesel) is still sky high?"
The story is that the shortage is on the diesel side; there's no supply problem with gasoline. The Europeans use a lot of diesel for their car fleet, and non-OECD countries (mainly China) are buying up diesel to run generators.
However, there's also a feeling that the big refiners want to try to keep the heat off themselves during an election year, as well as squeeze the smaller refiners.
"Could it be that there is no pricing power in the industry due to lack of demand?
Oil will get slaughtered as they figure out the demand destruction going on here."
That's been the end of every oil spike. Even though the U.S. has not been the major source of new demand, it is still the largest customer. And there's plenty of room for conservation/demand destruction.
China/India can eventually fill any gap in demand created by conservation, but is wildly unclear whether they would want to become too dependent upon OPEC. The U.S. was a major oil producer when it's energy-intensive infrastructure was built up; the Chinese and Indians don't have the same luxury.
Or it could mean that the only people cutting down in miles are the ones who's shifted to more fuel efficient cars.
I'll give you a data point in support of this. We've been less like lately to let ourselves feel "too lazy" to leave the prius in the driveway and take the bikes.
If I remember correctly, the rig count in the US portion of the Gulf of Mexico in 1981 was ~4,000, in 1999 ~800 and now it's back to between 1,300 and 1,400. That says it all for the commodity cycle. It takes a long time for supply to catch up with demand, both on the way up and down.
O-Joe
How much I could save driving less was a factor, though not the only one, in my recent personal decision to quit my day job and get back to working from home freelance writing, something I did in the past. No doubt, gas prices are a real drag at $4 a gallon.
The most interesting point in the report was that the prior month had shown a year-on-year increase in miles travelled.
Looking at an alternate data source for gasoline demand suggests that US consumption declined by about 100kbpd in March when compared with a year earlier, ie about 0.1%, and that inventory level declines for the month were near-identical for both this year and last.
Obviously, we don't get any idea from the report whether there are any "sensitivity" adjustments made due to things like Easter being in March this year, and that a fair number of people may well have had an extra two days off work.
I wonder if there'll be a rebound in the April data?
FT Woods writes:
Rob Dawg,
I'm just curious, how do you feel about federal highway funds?
FT Woods | 05.24.08 - 2:02 am | #
Exactly. Is the street sweeper, snowplow, and pothole patching crew paid 100% out of local gas taxes - and are their pensions as well?
Second, what exactly is mass transit supposed to be? Is it supposed to be a public service, or is it supposed to be a profit-making enterprise offering alternative means of transportation? If it's the latter, what business does government have running it? Why not sell the transit systems off to private companies? If it's a public service, which other public services should be turning a profit? If all public services turned a profit, shouldn't my taxes be negative; shouldn't I be getting paid to live here?
BART also makes 10% of its revenue from parking fees and advertising, so taxes only cover a bit under 40% of its operating costs. It seems fair to count these as the value of the parking and the advertising comes from BART's transit operations.
Cmon, how would any agency possibly have a solid mathematical handle on how many miles are being driven by the 60+ million automobiles in America? My hunch was this was just a statistical extrapolation from some sample and one that invariably contains some fudging. What wasnt reported was that FHWA has only 4000 automated devices on America's roads that count traffic volumes. The interstate system alone is over 46,000 miles in length. Another 5.7 million miles of paved roads exist from other federal highways, state roads & highways, local avenues and boulevards, plus the dinky street from your cul-de sac to the gas station. So thats 1 recorder per every 1,425 miles.
Hence the fudging...uh, I mean statistical extrapolations.
I googled a link to a recent DOT study citing the margin of error on their statistical samples ranged from 5% on low-variable use roads to almost 9% on roads w/ highly variable use. So the margin error may be twice as big as the reported decline in usage. Sheesh.
There are other noticeable impacts like the price of used SUVs. And the laughs a Hummer driver receives at stoplights in my city.
lookin forward to anecdotal evidence of this in santa cruz CA over this weekend...
I'm looking forward to the day when Americans drive less badly.
Now if they're substituting walking/biking for driving, the next big story might be about how Americans are suddenly getting healthy en masse.
the comments linky is on the blinky
Good. Overall a good thing for the entire planet.
The high gas prices probably saved my marriage! Yes, my husband's poor ego, being a gasp renter vs. my belief that buying a house here and now would be a huge mistake battle has ended. While looking for houses last week, he stopped to fill up and of all things, the machine cut him off at $75.00, before the tank was even full!
Miles driven is down 4.3 percent, but watching gasoline consumption at: This Week In Petroleum Gasoline Section
has shown gasoline consumption to be down only about 0.7-2.3% ... so people are switching to even less fuel efficient vehicles?
Part of it could be the DOE's method of short term gasoline demand is off (look at the jump from march long term to short term in the bottom graph) (but still, that yields the about 2.3% drop of consumption). Or it could mean that the only people cutting down in miles are the ones who's shifted to more fuel efficient cars. The ones with the F550's with 4 back tires, and the expeditions with low air pressure just keep on driving. How can one keep up appearances with an SUV in the driveway?
still, 16% rise in fuel prices YOY to get a 1-2% reduction in demand? That's a bit inelastic.
This is good news! If only the 405 here in SoCal would ease up a little!
Demand yes, price no. 1st!
I mean 10th!
I have been noticing that gas prices are starting to vary significantly by geographical area. Gas prices in California, Illinois, and Michigan used to be very consistent within each state.
Unfortunately, I did not save any images of old gas temperature maps from Gasbuddy.com, but here is one from May 19th (via The Big Picture).
Here is the current map.
In the past, gas price variations within CA/IL/MI were very small. This is no longer the case. I think gasoline demand is starting to do some Cliff Diving (tm)!
Come to think of it. I haven't seen that black suburban with the Condi'08 sticker lately.
This report should help oil to 200.
Increasing oil prices is not a crisis. And may have it's silver lining.
Peak Traffic?
I thought peak oil was supposed to be in 30-40 years. If that is actually true, this little excercise is a good thing, and scaring us into changing our ways is another good thing.
Lawyerliz,
Worldwide oil production appears to have peaked in 2006.
tj & the bear, I thought the most recent data showed the highest ever production (it just came out). So we might be close, but we are not to peak oil production yet.
Best Wishes.
Part of the reason, IMHO that vehicles miles aren't dropping comensurate with rising prices for gas is that there is so much latent demand for driving constricted roads. as soon as demand eases for the road by one party, another party finds that value of using the road in terms of reduce commute time (vis a vis transit or what would have been a more congested commute) offset increases gas costs
Say I drive 13 miles to work each way; @ 26 mpg that's 8 bucks in gas round trip, or $2 more than I paid last year. Meanwhile parking is $10/day and value my time at $50/hour during work hours when I could be producing income. Gas is still a small part of the fiscal equation.
Lawyerliz,
I wish I could be as hopeful. I'm a veteran of the energy conservation/alternatives programs started under Pres. Carter after the oil price shocks in the 70's.
We had great ideas, great funding and a strong sense of mission. It seemed as if America was finally getting it.
Yet, shockingly few of those programs made it through the first few years of the Reagan administration -- and no President since has implemented any significant number of programs to replace them.
tj & the bear, I thought the most recent data showed the highest ever production (it just came out).
CR, do you have a link?
CR,
You have this post labeled "oil." IMO that is largely not the reason. Responses to even larger marginal increases as we've seen recently are relatively demand inelastic. To get drops like these requires a "recession" label.
Borrowing money over decades is much easier then paying it back.
re: oil peak - The Oil Drum: Europe | Oilwatch Monthly - May 2008
liquids had a peak this year in january, and crude had a new peak in feb at 74.66 mbpd, assuing it doesn't get revised down. My WAG for liquids peak is 88 mbpd, and 76mbpd for crude.
CR,
You're right (of course)! Looks like February reached a new all-time high of 74.66mbd for crude oil, besting January by 226,000bd -- which itself was barely above levels achieved in 2005. We'll have to see if it's more than a temporary blip.
Warning! PDF:
http://www.peakoil.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/2008_may_oilwatch_monthly.pdf
The Oil Drum: Oilwatch Monthly - May 2008
On the production rates, it will be interesting to see what is sustained over the year...
I get it that the increase in gas prices has likely caused demand to drop over the last few months. But what caused it to flatten so clearly over the last 2+ years?
cathyG: maybe the earlier increases in price and rumblings of peak oil caused the flatening. It's not like last few summers were the cheapest gas on record.
Flotown @ 5:19 pm
I agree with your analysis, but that's not the way MOST people think -- particularly people on a fixed salary.
MDs, lawyers, accountants, individual business owners, etc. who are missing "billable hours" by a long commute would figure as you did. Plus a few others who WANT to get to work because they love it or because they want to impress the boss.
The Truckline ATA Index is declining as well:
http://www.truckline.com/NR/exeres/147566B2-1834-45A3-B888-E1AA21602E6F.htm
I'm putting more miles on my bicycle than ever. This is a slightly cooler than average spring in the Midwest, so it's a perfect time for it.
The studded snow tires are in the basement and won't come out till December.
Between noon and 1 PM today the neighborhood Shell station raised the price of Regular from 4.199 to 4.349, 15 cents.
It's always the most expensive station around but none are under $4.00 anymore.
I have been telling the marketwatch people that oil is going to drop significantly after this summer. They think we are headed towards end times and advised me to buy gold, ammunition, food and oil. People are scared, no doubt.
I have been telling the marketwatch people that oil is going to drop significantly after this summer. They think we are headed towards end times and advised me to buy gold, ammunition, food and oil. People are scared, no doubt.
Maybe. But not if central banks keep giving traders the means and motivation to hoard supplies and manipulate markets for profit.
The more oil prices go up, the more inflows there are into commodity ETFs, the more incentives there are to "hide" things where they shouldn't be.
I love when folks look at higher gasoline prices in a vacuum...calculating what the net change in the gas bill has been.....completely missing the fact that energy is a component of ALL of their expenses. Sure your fixed mortgage payment and your other contracted costs may not move, but everything else will!
Why do you assume gasoline price is the only factor which could reduce demand?
Also: the fact that the total has been stable since 2006 means that per capita vehicle miles have been dropping for at least that long.
I have been telling the marketwatch people that oil is going to drop significantly after this summer.
Define "significantly".
a local heating oil vendor was telling me (in dismay) that people reduced their consumption of heating oil dramatically this past winter. He said he thought that in many cases, they weren't buying enough to really keep warm.
Say I drive 13 miles to work each way; @ 26 mpg that's 8 bucks in gas round trip, or $2 more than I paid last year. Meanwhile parking is $10/day and value my time at $50/hour during work hours when I could be producing income. Gas is still a small part of the fiscal equation.
Flotown
more Perfect Statistical Analysis prejected from one's own experience to eveyone in the nation.
I applaud you. What's the Math called?
GOOD GOOD GOOD,
At $5/gal maybe I can flog the Porsche TT from Dallas to Greenville in record time...
CathyG writes:
I get it that the increase in gas prices has likely caused demand to drop over the last few months. But what caused it to flatten so clearly over the last 2+ years?
Bob writes:
Why do you assume gasoline price is the only factor which could reduce demand?
I was projecting this from as long ago as the 2000 Census. VMT had been set to peak and even decline due to a number of demographic and transect factors. The key to watch will be average vehicle occupancy.
The highest grade of oil-light, sweet crude-peaked in 1999. The latest peak included things like the output from Canadian Tar Sands, which is a fancy way of turning bitumen, nat gas, and water into something like crude oil. There is a bit of comparing apples and oranges in these numbers, if they don't get revised down (as so many of the gov't numbers seem to be bogus anyway).
And I nearly forgot-the latest peak is just barely over the previous monthly peak set back in May of 2005. Even if the new peak isn't just statistical noise, it still isn't good news. The population has gone up faster than that!
For good info on this kind of stuff, hang out at The Oil Drum | Discussions about Energy and Our Future
a little while.
If it dropped 11 billion miles, for 4 %, does that mean that we drove 200 billion miles in March of last year?
Gawd...
"The key to watch will be average vehicle occupancy." ... Average commute length may have peaked, increase in telecommuting/4 day weeks also. Lots of stuff going on here
I heard that New York City is going to start shipping its garbage by the Erie Canal to save on gas costs...
"building a bridge to the 19th century"
Since the last plateau peak in 2005, there are 180 million more people on planet earth...(if you believe population stats)
that's half our countries population in three years...
the average american is responsible for 26 barrels per year(avg)(on 300mm,pop)
It'll be fascinating to see how businesses respond to the needs of their employees. I work for a small non-profit in LA. We've been exploring numerous options ranging from telecommuting to extending business hours four days a week and giving employees alternate Fridays or Mondays off.
Gasoline consumption (and therefore VMT) is inelastic in the short term (around -0.25), but much more so in the medium or long term - if gasoline prices stay high (-0.6). There are quite a few studies on this - but they are dependent on other factors such as location and economic drivers.
As for fuel sales, the accuracy of fuel sales data depends on where the data is collected. If it is at the terminal rack (a Canadian term) then, there is quite a bit of variability depending on when fuel deliveries occur through the pipelines (only one type of fuel is delivered in one batch, so if a batch of gasoline is delivered right before the close of a reporting period one year and after the close of a reporting period of the next, there can be big swings). Data on fuel sales at the pump tend to be quite a bit more refined (but harder to collect).
Of course, no one probably has data (except from the 70's) on what the elasticities for fuel are with the price increases seen this year (and last)
For those thinking global demand will decline "significantly"...
Export Land Model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The key chart to understand oil price developments is exports. Production is not as important.
Net Oil Exports of Top 20 Exporters
Taken from Net Oil Exports Blog
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit
Awesome chart, CR!
Looks like something momentous is afoot...
I'm for the 4 day work week Aimlessdriver.
"giocatoli writes:
lookin forward to anecdotal evidence of this in santa cruz CA over this weekend..."
Good effing luck; if you don't get your tail up over the summit of 17 by 9 am you're in parking-lot mode on a typical summer Saturday, much less Memorial Day.
"Bits_of_Real_Panther writes:
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit"
County of Santa Cruz has the "Highway 17 Express" commuter bus service from Santa Cruz County to key spots in Santa Clara County, and it's packed full. And they don't have the money to acquire or operate more buses.
ew Math. You got it wrong!
Flotown is just suggesting a new minimum wage of $50/hour.
Bob,
that gives me an idea..
LA: High gas prices have contributed to a 5 percent growth in Metro Rail ridership in the past year including record ridership on the Metro Gold Line from downtown Los Angeles to Pasadena.
News Release - Metro Board Adopts FY09 Budget
LA Ridership Statistics
Ridership Statistics
Bits_of_Real_Panther writes:
Transit use is booming in the Bay Area, too. BART is struggling to keep up with demand, yanking seats to make more room for standing. It's probably happening anywhere with reliable transit
Not really. LACMTA (Los Angeles)has their data up to date: Ridership Statistics
Ridership is flat y-o-y. Up slightly for rail lines, down for bus.
The point is; would this have happened without the massive relative increase in transit subsidy. The policy question for the transit welfare agencies, BART, LACMTA, etc. is why in the face of unprecedented cost increases and rising demand they refuse to implement even token fare increases. If transit is so popular as is being claimed there should be no problem getting riders to pay say half the costs? For BART that would require ~25% across the board. Ref: http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/profiles/2006/agency_profiles/9003.pdf
My brother is a social science professor, he studies resourse use, says other academics are saying this could be peak oil based on Saudi oil fields possibly peaking in the klast couple of years. 30-40 calculations for peak oil were based on peak Saudi oil in 30-40 years. Basically, Saudi oil peak = peak oil.
That's a great chart you posted, RE. Thanks.
The key chart to understand oil price developments is exports. Production is not as important.
Does it explain why they started August 17, 2007?
It suggests that an independent contractor model (1099) could flourish in the U.S., with individuals working for companies but working as contractors, not W-2 employees.
There's just one big problem. I've been a 1099 contractor for a long time. But I couldn't do it all over again today, starting out from scratch, and having to pay my own health insurance premiums. 1099s get reamed on health insurance. So, to make it all work, we need national health insurance.
All the policies we need (energy, health) seem to be coming but too late to stop a crash.
I think I will miss the food the most, then the heat.
FT Woods,
Cool both of us linking the exact same MTA data and getting diametric answers. You should learn to read MTAspeak with a jaundiced eye. For instance look at the average weekday boarding by line and try to find that 5% anywhere except the expanded Gold Line.
Peak Traffic?
No, Peak Travel.
Bob Dobbs,
Here's an interesting tidbit about the Highway 17 express bus - It actually turns a profit. At least it does when it runs full.
Rob,
BART increased its fares 5.4% in January and probably will do so again next January. They're also talking about raising parking fees and have just increased parking fines for those who don't pay the fees.
"All the policies we need (energy, health) seem to be coming but too late to stop a crash."
Without a crash, such reforms won't come. For major changes to happen in society, a vast number of comfortable people need to become uncomfortable at the same time.
Winston writes:
Rob,
BART increased its fares 5.4% in January and probably will do so again next January. They're also talking about raising parking fees and have just increased parking fines for those who don't pay the fees.
Where's my $2.00 gas? Seriously, $2.00 per gallon is far less of a subsidy to drivers than the current fare structure is to BART riders and BART is one of the least money losing agencies in the nation.
"Bob Dobbs,
Here's an interesting tidbit about the Highway 17 express bus - It actually turns a profit. At least it does when it runs full."
I'd heard it did really well, for public transit, but I'm still amazed.
Maybe it is just Real Estate agents NOT driving people to see houses?
Anonymous:
Actually, with BART's current farebox recovery ratio, it would be more like $3/gallon gas.
Rob,
I think they're including the new Orange Line under rail even though it's a bus on a dedicated road. It's had a 20K increase in boardings. Unfortunately, the trend lines only show average weekday boardings for bus lines not rail lines.
The Metro begins introducing turnstiles next year. I'll be curious to see the statistics once they're installed city wide.
I take the train from time to time. You may not like it, but I think it's a great investment for the city. Commerce has definitely grown around the transit hubs. East LA will come online soon. It's amazing how fast new easy access changes the economics of an area.
I didn't mean to start a debate about transit subsidies, just trying to point out that there are several factors at work in declining VMT, most of which are in response to $3.50-4.00 and now $4.00+ gas. These are short-term effects, whether or not urban form will change to bring about long-term effects is much more complicated
I'm struck by the correlation of a halt in the increase in miles traveled and recession of economic activity. That makes the plateau in miles driven the last two years especially striking.
sort of puts q little dent in the whole higher demand BS that the media keeps feeding us.
I have not heard the "chindia" parable lately either.
Nuke the NYMEX....solves part of the current problem.
Ciao
MS
OT: Hedgies doing a great job of playing "protect the bubble" despite the stock market beating this week.
EWZ
This is the problem with continually bailing out speculators:
They learn.
The rot becomes more deeply entrenched and harder to get rid of without destroying the host economy.
Winston,
Anon was me, I'm sometimes using a different laptop while recovering.
Anyway, BART recovers 50% of operating costs or 40% of total costs via fares. See NTD previously referenced.
A 50% operating subsidy to drivers would be nearly free gas.
Re: disparity between Veh.Mi.Trav. vs. Gasoline sales.
Over a decade ago I worked in the field of transportation economics. This web link gives the detailed estimates by type of road (3) and Urban/Rural split.
Tables 1 & 2 -
February 2008 -
TVT -
Travel Monitoring -
Policy Information - FHWA
VMT is based on about 4000 fixed vehicle counters (as I recall, about 280 in California), so there are not a lot of data points.
The DOT travel model estimates the VMT, that is based largely on the "counts" at these fixed sites. Therefore, cetera paribus, the drop in VMT reflects the reduction in "counts" at certain specific locations. From the website, you can see that the largest declines were in "Rural Interstate" and "Urban Interstate". There was actually an increase in "Other urban" counts (i.e., mileage estimate).
Arterial driving uses about 20% more fuel/mile than high-speed driving (provided the driver stays around the speed limit). The implication is that drivers are substituting short-distance trips for the longer treks. They are shopping closer to home, but the increased gallons/mile partly offsets the reduced miles traveled.
ChefVisar,
Another factor in the switch to more local travel is driver/trip remodeling as the IHS has been neglected to the point of congestion and disrepair.
Looks like something momentous is afoot...
tj & the bear | 05.23.08 - 6:31 pm | #
Conservation maybe?
Wade writes:
I'm for the 4 day work week Aimlessdriver.
Wade | Homepage | 05.23.08 - 6:32 pm | #
Considering the lines of traffic I saw streaming out of Chicago & Milwaukee today (heading out on a long weekend) - we might be better off from an energy conservation perspective if we chained them to their cubicles LONGER as opposed to having them 'save energy' by not coming to work one less day a week.
Just sayin'.
Rob Dawg writes:
Winston,
Anon was me, I'm sometimes using a different laptop while recovering.
Anyway, BART recovers 50% of operating costs or 40% of total costs via fares. See NTD previously referenced.
A 50% operating subsidy to drivers would be nearly free gas.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.23.08 - 7:39 pm | #
Dawg you need to embrace mass transit more - I did long ago and never looked back. In act I am more in favor of it everyday. I wish everyone used it - far less congestion for me if they did. Subsidizing other people's use of mass transit is a small price to pay compared to a lifetime spent in congestion.
The Fun of 3-Day Weekends...
- American Market will be Closed on Monday
- Potential for Overseas Market Decline
- Fed has some Formula for Tuesday AM Rate Cut (overseas losses of 3%?)
- This Happened Less Than 5 Months Ago
Anyone think this could happen again?
I like that peak oil is not even reported as a possibility. Too horrible to consider, that is why we wont be prepared when it gets here.
I filled my 05 Tacoma (4 cyl.) today in San diego and price was $3.99/gal. Total came to $68.55
I said to myself "here goes my week end dining out".
This gas prices are going to have significant adverse side effects on every aspect of the economy.
This is the problem with continually bailing out speculators:
ac - give it up, we covered this a few nights ago... V.I. Lenin had the answer back in 1918:
"Until we apply terror to speculators - shooting on the spot - we wont get anywhere."
".. catch and shoot the...speculators and bribe-takers. These swine have to be dealt [with] so that everyone will remember it for years."
From macro man. Anything else is a slap on the wrist.
ac - give it up, we covered this a few nights ago... V.I. Lenin had the answer back in 1918:
"Until we apply terror to speculators - shooting on the spot - we wont get anywhere."
Haha... I think I've essentially made the same argument.
I tell people in the real world who ask me about opening a brokerage account so they can "invest" in stocks in commodities:
"Don't do it - once you start you won't stop until you're bankrupt or in jail."
Or:
"Stay away from meth. It's a gateway drug to day-trading."
dryfly writes:
Dawg you need to embrace mass transit more - I did long ago and never looked back. In act I am more in favor of it everyday. I wish everyone used it - far less congestion for me if they did. Subsidizing other people's use of mass transit is a small price to pay compared to a lifetime spent in congestion.
This is part of how we got here. We make bad policy decisions because of distorted incentives. We are arguing about getting people to pay more than the 25% of their transit costs they pay now. Perverse incentives and moral hazard are fingers of the same hand. We've wasted billions inducing people into urban forms that we are unlikely to be able to continue to subsidize. Transit is fine if we can establish market price signals with which to base policy. Does anyone here not believe the housing demand that caused so much overbuilding was distorted by lending practices? If you accept that then the distortion of massive transit subsidies should be even more disturbing.
Homedebtors are choosing between gas or food now
LOL!
Home prices have further to collapse due to escalating food energy and property taxes.
Anyone notice that beer prices have been getting jacked up lately?
I get a contrarian CR alert. When even CR comments on high oil/gas prices, the top must be either in or very nearby. I think I will go short oil on Monday/Tuesday (even if only for a short period of time). But the peak (price, not production) is close at hand. Maybe we'll go higher in June after a short but nasty drop, but that's about it.
Nevermind the peak-oil sect and doomsayers. They are as much off as Jas.
O-Joe
anon-1797
Look at the last graph on the page:
The page cannot be found
Specifically this graph:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/gtpsusm.gif
Total demand is actually cratering.
This is not a drill, gas prices have been rising slower than normal, as sales have fallen, stuffing the channels.
Now, how come heating oil (near to diesel) is still sky high?
Um, Bueller?
Could it be that there is no pricing power in the industry due to lack of demand?
Oil will get slaughtered as they figure out the demand destruction going on here.
Same argument goes for houses.
Someday this war's gonna end...
Say I drive 13 miles to work each way; @ 26 mpg that's 8 bucks in gas round trip
So is that $8 bucks a gallon? Cause 13 miles twice is 26 and 26 mpg should be one.
Rob Dawg- parking in SF is so bad that I'd gladly pay the increase,...but then I'm not a commuter there.
Renterfornow- "Anyone notice that beer prices have been getting jacked up lately?"
Stop that! You're scaring me.
From what I hear, all of the brewers are tacking on fuel surcharges to the higher priced beers, and the Old Milwaukee drinkers will get hit last.
Canada national news tonight showed some American's bringing out the horse and buggies.
Ponies for everyone??
More butter please........
"AllenM writes:
Total demand is actually cratering.
This is not a drill, gas prices have been rising slower than normal, as sales have fallen, stuffing the channels.
Now, how come heating oil (near to diesel) is still sky high?"
The story is that the shortage is on the diesel side; there's no supply problem with gasoline. The Europeans use a lot of diesel for their car fleet, and non-OECD countries (mainly China) are buying up diesel to run generators.
However, there's also a feeling that the big refiners want to try to keep the heat off themselves during an election year, as well as squeeze the smaller refiners.
"Could it be that there is no pricing power in the industry due to lack of demand?
Oil will get slaughtered as they figure out the demand destruction going on here."
That's been the end of every oil spike. Even though the U.S. has not been the major source of new demand, it is still the largest customer. And there's plenty of room for conservation/demand destruction.
China/India can eventually fill any gap in demand created by conservation, but is wildly unclear whether they would want to become too dependent upon OPEC. The U.S. was a major oil producer when it's energy-intensive infrastructure was built up; the Chinese and Indians don't have the same luxury.
The chart shows that you cannot extrapolate. Consumption dropped and leveled in the early 80s, too... but then continued to rise.
Look at the three day gain in supply- and then begin to look at a 10% drop in demand.
21 to 24 day increase, already.
I'll give you a data point in support of this. We've been less like lately to let ourselves feel "too lazy" to leave the prius in the driveway and take the bikes.
I read this as good news. It implies that, SUVs notwithstanding, the US can react to oil prices more rapidly than in the 70s.
The Financial Times has an interesting article re: Asian oil subsidies & the possibility of cuts in those subsidies
FT.com | Error | Page unavailable
Hope I got the link right.
Allen,
They are not making any more oil.
If I remember correctly, the rig count in the US portion of the Gulf of Mexico in 1981 was ~4,000, in 1999 ~800 and now it's back to between 1,300 and 1,400. That says it all for the commodity cycle. It takes a long time for supply to catch up with demand, both on the way up and down.
O-Joe
Average Citizen, good for you. I took the same position as you with my wife but the result is a divorce in progress.
Latest EIA data on world production & demand:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t21.xls
2007 Average Annual World Supply: 84.59
2007 Average Annual World Demand: 85.35
Demand:
US only -- 2003: 20.03 / 2007: 20.70
US/OECD -- 2003: 48.60 / 2007: 48.96
Non-OECD -- 2003: 31.01 / 2007: 36.39
Rob Dawg,
I'm just curious, how do you feel about federal highway funds?
How much I could save driving less was a factor, though not the only one, in my recent personal decision to quit my day job and get back to working from home freelance writing, something I did in the past. No doubt, gas prices are a real drag at $4 a gallon.
Marketblog.com › The Mother of all Market Blogs
The most interesting point in the report was that the prior month had shown a year-on-year increase in miles travelled.
Looking at an alternate data source for gasoline demand suggests that US consumption declined by about 100kbpd in March when compared with a year earlier, ie about 0.1%, and that inventory level declines for the month were near-identical for both this year and last.
Obviously, we don't get any idea from the report whether there are any "sensitivity" adjustments made due to things like Easter being in March this year, and that a fair number of people may well have had an extra two days off work.
I wonder if there'll be a rebound in the April data?
Apologies for the maths error in the above - that's a 1% consumption decline.
FT Woods writes:
Rob Dawg,
I'm just curious, how do you feel about federal highway funds?
FT Woods | 05.24.08 - 2:02 am | #
Exactly. Is the street sweeper, snowplow, and pothole patching crew paid 100% out of local gas taxes - and are their pensions as well?
Second, what exactly is mass transit supposed to be? Is it supposed to be a public service, or is it supposed to be a profit-making enterprise offering alternative means of transportation? If it's the latter, what business does government have running it? Why not sell the transit systems off to private companies? If it's a public service, which other public services should be turning a profit? If all public services turned a profit, shouldn't my taxes be negative; shouldn't I be getting paid to live here?
FT and Chicago,
Careful now, you are applying logic to the realm of religion!
Rob,
BART also makes 10% of its revenue from parking fees and advertising, so taxes only cover a bit under 40% of its operating costs. It seems fair to count these as the value of the parking and the advertising comes from BART's transit operations.
Cmon, how would any agency possibly have a solid mathematical handle on how many miles are being driven by the 60+ million automobiles in America? My hunch was this was just a statistical extrapolation from some sample and one that invariably contains some fudging. What wasnt reported was that FHWA has only 4000 automated devices on America's roads that count traffic volumes. The interstate system alone is over 46,000 miles in length. Another 5.7 million miles of paved roads exist from other federal highways, state roads & highways, local avenues and boulevards, plus the dinky street from your cul-de sac to the gas station. So thats 1 recorder per every 1,425 miles.
Hence the fudging...uh, I mean statistical extrapolations.
I googled a link to a recent DOT study citing the margin of error on their statistical samples ranged from 5% on low-variable use roads to almost 9% on roads w/ highly variable use. So the margin error may be twice as big as the reported decline in usage. Sheesh.
rc writes:
This is good news! If only the 405 here in SoCal would ease up a little!
rc | 05.23.08 - 4:58 pm | #
I drove to San Diego this weekend and the drive was as smooth as I can ever recall. Only hit traffic coming back.
Sheesh.