Vandos and Bandos

I can't imagine being in some of these developments where half the houses are vacant and everyone is a recent move in themselves - know nobody in the 'community'. Its gotta be frightening.

We had a "vando" attack in my Temecula neighborhood last week. The garage door was lifted and jarred from the track and the garage door was used to gain entry to the house. I don't know if the interior was vandalized. I called the listing agent number and left a message which evidently was ignored. The house is still accessible one week later. This vandalism is the first incident in my more expensive (by Temecula standards) neighborhood.

The home next door was foreclosed in Jan '07 and the family moved out in Oct or Nov '07. Deutsche Bank as Trustee for some MBS pool is shown as the owner. The neighbors take turns parking in front or in the driveway but there's no getting around the lack of lighting at night and the overgrown lawn. I had been taking turns with the neighbor on the other side getting the front yard mowed (this was with the family still living there last year) - but have now resorted to calling the Sanitation Dept in town who comes by to clean up - apparently they bill the owner of record for the work. The sad part is I've had a few people approach me who were interested in buying the house but had no luck getting in touch with Deutsche Bank - the longer they sit on this the more they're or more correctly the bondholders are going to lose...

OT but interesting

Wachovia Is Under Renewed Scrutiny After Report on U.S. Probe

By David Mildenberg

April 26 (Bloomberg) -- Wachovia Corp.'s business practices drew scrutiny for the second time in as many days after a report that the bank has been ensnared in a federal probe of drug-money laundering tied to Mexican and Colombian transfer companies.

The Wall Street Journal reported today that Charlotte, North Carolina-based Wachovia is one of several large U.S. banks that have drawn the attention of federal authorities for their relationships with remittance companies. The companies transmit an estimated $50 billion a year to Latin America, mostly wages earned by immigrants to the U.S. The Journal cited unidentified people familiar with the probe.

Separately, the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency said yesterday that Wachovia, the nation's fourth- largest bank by assets, will pay as much as $144 million to settle claims that poor oversight allowed telemarketers and payment processors to withdraw millions of dollars from customers' accounts.

snip

Wachovia is talking with the U.S. Justice Department about a deferred-prosecution agreement that would require federal oversight of its compliance system, the Journal reported. Wachovia spokeswoman Christy Phillips Brown denied that such talks were taking place.

snip

Bandos are growing in number by the day . . . it's only a matter of time before SiV, O-Joe, and Sebastian join the ranks.

(Doc Holliday has been a Bando for months, squatting in an abandoned home with free electric, cable, and WiFi.)

I reported on this squatter phenomena last August:
410pets.JPG (image)
What I am noticing is that we've yet to find a bottom in the precipitous drop in personal behavior. Does not bode well for expectations of shouldering debt obligations.

Dawg, any update on the Bando squatting in Snowflake's sweet investment pad?

meth labs in our neck of the woods.

The sooner house prices become affordable the better.

It is better than being a vando -- down by the river.

We used to call the vacant properties available for squatting "bandominiums".

Halloween should be pretty interesting this year..
Anyone from de'troit

Gary: "Bandos are growing in number by the day . . . it's only a matter of time before SiV, O-Joe, and Sebastian join the ranks."

Ha! I am reliably informed that Sebastian's house is increasing in value by leaps and bounds . . .

"the bank has been ensnared in a federal probe of drug-money laundering tied to Mexican and Colombian transfer companies.
"

Narco-banking = Gangster Capitalism.

As long as the bandos don't wreck anything, it doesn't seem like that bad of a phenomenon. I imagine some poor grad students could take advantage of the situation, and their presence might well prevent others with more nefarious purposes from coming in.

In an efficient market these would be cheap rentals, of course.

Wow! You have the impressio you are describing the Ex-USSR. No problem. Fannie Mae and the fuckin godamn bullshit is going up. Fuckers from Wall Street.

Fidos -- Financial orgs that created abandos

OT: I hate to say this, but I'm calling a bottom in economic chaos.

Simple reason: Look at walmart and the latest earnings, i.e, the latest earnings increased because of inflation in the form of higher priced goods.

That odd economic result of higher costs from inflation is the very best model out there for what The Bernanke Game Plan is, i.e, Positive Inflation.

Positive inflation in the form of higher costs will result in greater earnings for many S&P500 companies, that will see real business decline, but thanks to higher cost, will be able to report smooth numbers during this decline.

Bottom line, the little guy gets smashed with cost of living increases, but global corporations will appear unphased by a recession.

Amen

really no reason to ever post here again...

A guy who works from me has bandos living across the street. Seems the NY flipper rented the house (in Poinciana FL) to a single mom with a bunch of kids. After two months she moved out because she couldn't afford it. A relative and his clan moved in with a copy of her key and has been there rent free for over six months. The owner is clueless, and everyone in the neighborhood is afraid of this guy. He is an intimidating druggie suspected for several robberies in the area.

Been a Bando in Las Vegas going on 3 months now. Sheriff shows up at the condo complex (660 units) daily now but hasn't knocked on my door yet.

5 days notice appears to be the norm for renters when the landlord defaults.

Be sure to check out the digs.
Turnberry Place,Las Vegas Luxury Condominium High Rise Living

SS

PS One of the local real estate developers when off the roof recently. Luckly my car was parked underground that day.

I wanted to add a little more spice to the stock vs. commodities angle. I was quite curious how both relate on a historical basis in real terms (CPI-U). I therefore posit the following chart:

Dow Jones vs. CRB Spot - Historical

When some people talk about a commodities bubble, I find it fascinating how they can at the same time ignore that parabola in deep red. This is the real outlier!

Another interesting tidbit is that after strong rises in stocks there are years of decline. Doesn't bode well for the DOW, now does it?

As to commodities, doesn't exactly look like a bubble to me but simply a solid correction from a very long time low.

Perspective is everything...

Anyone from de'troit

Close enough to
a) know what you mean;
b) have considered the possibilities with some trepidation a few weeks ago.

But recall too that Detroiters eventually got ahead of the problem before it ran out of, um, fuel. As I recall, some really tough community organizing work that got citizens out patrolling around Oct 30–31 helped a lot.

That might work again in neighborhoods or subdivisions that are connected to something, but those isolated places are indeed scary.

Bottom line, the little guy gets smashed with cost of living increases, but global corporations will appear unphased by a recession.

Yeah, that worked so well in Weimar Germany. Corporations in Zimbabwe have to be blowing the doors off these days.

doc holiday aka.... writes:

OT: I hate to say this, but I'm calling a bottom in economic chaos.

Simple reason: Look at walmart and the latest earnings, i.e, the latest earnings increased because of inflation in the form of higher priced goods.

Well let’s look at the earnings of UPS, CAT, AMEX, AMZN, GOOG, MSFT, on and on. They all said the earnings were good outside the US helped by exchange rates. Well guess what’s going to happen to them in about six months. Doesn’t bode well for the future, does it?

Any good locations out there for a Bando vacation? With gas at $4, I need a Bando!

Perspective is everything...
RE,

Thanks for the really creative and thought-provoking contribution.

Lol, we were just talking, "next winter lets go to Florida and do a snowbo". A Play on snowbird. Of course we are polite and will clean up before we leave in the spring.

Also, lets look at the wonderful stimulus package from the government that should just about cover the added expense of the rise in fuel costs to Americans. Oh wait. They’re supposed to go shopping with that.

I was looking at the prices for natural gas here in GA this morning for a one year fixed contract. They’re up almost 35% so far, and sure to rise. I will lock in again in September if the prices are lower. This is assuming we have no hurricanes.

Thanks Rich, greatly appreciated.

We had a realtor show us 3 homes in Orange County, CA. Two were in REO and in rather poor condition.

Another one was in poor condition and looked like a gang (or wannabe gangsters) hang out with graffiti on the walls outside the house and on the fence as well and even inside the home!

Natural gas is what I know, let me tell you, the easy gas is all gone. The drilling in the new shale plays is risky and expensive. Demand should keep prices rising, not sure how a recession will play on demand.

Topher,

Positive inflation is everything and the magic show will be in the offset between fewer goods sold at a higher price -- it's a wash for global players and meanwhile, mutual funds will keep buying based on technical earnings growth. Corporations will not be impacted and any threat to the balance sheet will be viewed as an opportunity to downsize, cut costs and keep growth on target; the bottomline is everything in this charade and thus stocks will push higher as more and more people gasp in wonder...

I don’t see it that way Doc. Naked Capitalism had a good piece the other night.

Here is some of it.

America, of course, is already in recession – although the cascade of defaults, business closures, and job losses has barely begun.

Japan is in recession too, according to Goldman Sachs. It is still the world’s second biggest economy by far, lest we forget.

Britain, Ireland, Spain, Italy, and New Zealand, are tipping into housing slumps and demand implosions of varying severity.

Ontario and Quebec have stalled. Canada’s growth is the weakest in fifteen years, hence the half point cut by the Bank of Canada yesterday.

Australia is on borrowed time, whatever the price of coal and iron ore. Household debt is 175pc of disposable income, up in La La Land with England, Ireland, Denmark, and the Dutch. The wholesale funding market for mortgages that underpins this nonsense remains frozen.

Together these countries and regions make up roughly 45pc of the global economy, and over half global demand. My hunch is that this bloc will be sliding towards full-blown deflation within a year as the commodity bubble pops and job losses set off a self-feeding downward spiral.

The alleged parallel with the oil spike of the early 1970s is a snare. Debt leverage has been more reckless this time. It must contract more viciously. Inflation is less sticky (going down) in the Anglo-Saxon world, if not flexless Europe, where stagflation awaits.

If you think that core Europe - Greater Germany, Benelux, and the Scandies (France is faltering) - can somehow tough it out as the rest of the OECD’s industrial family hurtles into a brick wall, read the IMF’s “Regional Economic Outlook: Europe”, published this week.

The Fund has cut its eurozone growth forecast to 1.4pc this year, and 1.2pc next – with perma-slump pencilled in for Italy. This puts it at daggers drawn with the European Central Bank, the fervent apostle of decoupling.

Europe will suffer 40pc of the entire $940bn global losses stemming from the credit crunch. Euro banks alone will lose $123bn (compared to $144bn for the US). "Loss recognition will need to catch up," said the IMF.

"Liquidity remains seriously impaired. Lenders are tightening credit standards, particularly for loans to enterprises," it said.

"The deteriorating economic outlook could weaken European and corporate balance sheets appreciably," it said.

On it goes, more or less dire, if you adjust for the IMF’s softly-softly style.

mutual funds will keep buying

Haven't you ever heard of "net outflows"? Happens when people -- like all those retiring boomers -- are pulling more cash out then they are putting in.

Okay, RE, here is the rejoinder to 'commodities prices should be going up':

Julian Simon: "More people, and increased income, cause resources to become more scarce in the short run. Heightened scarcity causes prices to rise. The higher prices present opportunity, and prompt inventors and entrepreneurs to search for solutions. Many fail in the search, at cost to themselves. But in a free society, solutions are eventually found. And in the long run the new developments leave us better off than if the problems had not arisen. That is, prices eventually become lower than before the increased scarcity occurred."

Julian Simon won the famous bet with Paul Ehrlich on commodity prices over '80 to '90.

Simon-Ehrlich wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe some of those out of work realtors could make themselves useful (for a change) by bringing together 1) tenants who'd be willing to live in and keep up a property in exchange for free rent, and 2) and REO property holders who'd recognize that as a good deal because they don't want to see their assets diminish in value further via vandalism. This would help protect neighbors' property values as well.

I don't think it is in the public interest to find and evict bandos, as long as they keep a low profile in the abandoned house. If the property owner complains, OK, then the bandos have to go, but otherwise they protect the house from vandos and worse.

Topher,

I've been in the same camp as you for years, and can't post enough enough on fraud, manipulation, collusion, corruption, pension fund abuse by DOL (pension Protection Act), etc., etc...

However, as I keep watching the earnings yield of S&P it's as if nothing is happening, as if no one reports earnings or updates the index values! As crazy as things have been, the yield seems frozen and the overvaluation factor when compared to a 10 year treasury, e.g, for about 6 months the valuation has been unchanged with the S&P overvalued by about 4%.....never made sense and still doesn't!

Thus, with Bernanke's Positive Inflation theory and the printing press on high speed, the economy will have more cash, higher earnings, and a recession that will bypass global corps and destroy the little guy.........and yah, so how will tapped out consumers fuel the stock bubble during a recession??

Crazy!

What scares me is that society is in much worse shape than the last depression. We have meth,crack, gang violence, and general lack of community. This scares me much worse than job loss or market declines

jg,
I understand his premise but actually discount it. In fact, I actually consider the premise somewhat naïve in the current environment. From my perspective, commodities became cheaper in the 1980’s because of a significant fall in energy prices starting in the early 1980s.

On a side note, I was part of a project team in late 1982 within Aramco that studied the impact of much lower oil prices on the Saudi State budget, down in stair step fashion to $5 a barrel. This was to protect Saudi Arabia’s position within OPEC as members were pumping much beyond their allocated quota. We were tasked to do this by Sheikh Yamani, if you remember him. Quite contrary to popular notions, it was the Saudis that drove the oil price so much lower, at least initially! Once the downdraft got really rolling, it got a little worse than they expected.

Historical Crude Oil Prices Table

If you look at the chart that I Dow Jones vs. CRB Spot - Historical " > posted , if the 70s - 90s trend line were to hold true, commodities would soon costs nothing. This is obviously impossible. Given the increased costs of production of just about any commodity today combined with a much larger consumer base and much stricter environmental standards, production costs are unlikely to go down much further in the near future. Once we have ubiquitous access to much cheaper energy than oil then a decline can again be expected unless scarcity rears its ugly head. I mentioned in the other thread that it now takes BHP 10 to 12 years to develop mine in third world countries. Little things like this prevent a quick demand response changing the equation of the prior experience. If you check out present commodity inventories, this is proven out nicely.

Also look at Krugman’s take on the commodity bubble:

Commodities and speculation: metallic (and other) evidence - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

"What scares me is that society is in much worse shape than the last depression. We have meth,crack, gang violence, and general lack of community."

I agree 100%! Have you bought your guns and ammo yet? I have been procrastinating I must admit. Just put it on my todo list for Monday.

RE,

That sounds like it was quite an interesting project, the kingdom was shutting in some huge amount of their production to support prices before they opened up the taps to discipline the rest of the market...was it 75% of capacity (8 MMBOE/D or similar?)?

Ultradeep water oil development is on basically an identical timeline outside of the US Gulf of Mexico, and still on that timeline sometimes even then! This structural element of bringing new capacity online is one of the causes of oil price cycles.

That bet looks to have a different outcome if made over the 2000-2010 timeframe...

My numero uno tinfoil fear-o-meter issue made the NYT op-ed page:

Stem Rust Never Sleeps
By NORMAN E. BORLAUG
Published: April 26, 2008

WITH food prices soaring throughout Asia, Africa and Latin America, and shortages threatening hunger and political chaos, the time could not be worse for an epidemic of stem rust in the world’s wheat crops. Yet millions of wheat farmers, small and large, face this spreading and deadly crop infection.

{snip}

”… the kingdom was shutting in some huge amount of their production to support prices before they opened up the taps to discipline the rest of the market...was it 75% of capacity (8 MMBOE/D or similar?)? ..”

Exactly. Capacity was approx. 11 mmbd.

It was incredibly frustrating to the Saudis as they were cutting back while everybody else was pumping all they could. They took it for a while but then decided that if the others weren’t going to cooperate, they were going to force the issue.

I was floored to have to model down to $5. It was simply an unimaginable price at the time.

Party on everybody....go to any site like Countrywide search the zip for a vacant house and party till the cops come!!easy and sleazzzyy!

Sequoia writes:
What scares me is that society is in much worse shape than the last depression. We have meth,crack, gang violence, and general lack of community. This scares me much worse than job loss or market declines
Sequoia | 04.26.08 - 11:42 pm | #

There was a lot of roughness leading up to last depression too - read about the ugliness in a places like the Mississippi Delta (share croppers & Klan), the bootlegger gangster battles in Chicago & KC... it isn't that different. Tough times always bring out the worst and if we're lucky also some of the best. Just have to see what happens...

I find it fascinating how they can at the same time ignore that parabola in deep red. This is the real outlier!

As a college kid in 1972, I was working in an investment office, ripping, folding and stuffing envelopes to send out the stock sales. On Nov. 14, 1972 we worked overtime, because the DJ broke 1000. I still remember my carbon-papery hands, riding my bike home before dawn.

In hanging out at these economics blogs, it strikes me that an awful lot of measures cut loose between 1970 and '75. Those years turn up again and again. I know this must be a real "duh" for a lot of you guys, but why is that?

Noni

I...can't post enough enough on fraud, manipulation, collusion, corruption, pension fund abuse by DOL (pension Protection Act), etc., etc...

I beg to differ doc, sometimes enough really is enough (enough)...

Noni - my first best guess would be closing of the gold window by Nixon in 1971. Inflation was already baked in, but that's what really got things going.

WITH food prices soaring throughout Asia, Africa and Latin America, and shortages threatening hunger and political chaos, the time could not be worse for an epidemic of stem rust in the world’s wheat crops. Yet millions of wheat farmers, small and large, face this spreading and deadly crop infection.

{snip}
energyecon | Homepage | 04.27.08 - 12:00 am |

I was talking to a corn 'breeder' last weekend - owns a mid-sized seed business. He said no crop is more vulnerable than corn. Commercial breeders are basically relying on two base strains... all of them. They just tweak the genetics associated with those strains. He said we are setting ourselves up for the 'perfect storm' considering how much depends on corn. Humans eat more wheat & rice but corn fuels almost all the animal feed (chicken, pork, cattle finishing). Shocking how dependent we still are on corn.

We talked Ug99 too - he is VERY up on it though he doesn't do wheat seed. He said it will be 5 years minimum before we have sufficient quantities of Ug99 resistant seed stock. In five years a lot of capacity can be lost.

I always thought Bando was a reference to My Side of the Mountain, the kids book about running away to live in the wilderness of the Catsklls. A guy he calls Bando finds him out, and comes back to live in the tree with the kid, eventually getting his own tree guesthouse- free of course!

Any good locations out there for a Bando vacation? With gas at $4, I need a Bando!
jba | 04.26.08 - 10:37 pm | #

Hey me, too! Let's do a timeshare arrangement. I'm in San Diego, where are you? Let's see if we can get Dryfly to scout the midwest for us. We'll give him his own "bando office" space.
Wow, bando CRE,...it's like that virtual Second Life, but with real property.

BTW- when I'm paying, I'm looking for the cheapest dive, but for free I'm a lot more choosy. Let's see Seattle Sun and Rob Dawg have already scouted Seattle and Ventura for us, heck, I might take an extra three weeks off!

Sequoia writes:
What scares me is that society is in much worse shape than the last depression. We have meth,crack, gang violence, and general lack of community. This scares me much worse than job loss or market declines

You really need to read about the Great Depression. It was really ugly, society was coming part at the seams. Machine gun nests at the White House, squatter camps dispersed by tanks and machine guns. The rise of the great crime gangs. We made it though by rather slim margin.

Interesting enough the GOP was for rescuing bankers and not the unemployed in the 1930s too. I read some of the speeches and I though McCain or Bush gave them.

This time, thanks to the GOP the lower classes are much better armed thank you.

Gonna be interesting.

I'm hoping that there's a 'rise' in Porndos, where all these abandoned SoCal houses get used for porn shoots. The LA money has to come from somewhere when long hem lines come back into fashion.

In an exponential expansion of yeast (doubling faster than every lifespan), more than half of all the yeast are alive when they run out of sugar.

Humans don't deal with exponentials much better. At this point our entire economic system is based on a continuously increasing rate of growth. I doubt we're at the end of it, but we'll never see the end coming till it's already over.

I agree that Bandos and Vandos are really just examples of an inefficient market. The markets only boarder on efficient when everything keeps going the same direction. Any uncertainty and majority just give up (due to risk) and learn to ignore situation, or they see continual castles in the clouds (traders) and make repeated bad decisions in a near zero sum game.

At least this blog makes it fun:^)

Econ 101. Supply/Demand. When we want more of something we subsidize it. For less, we tax it. Legalize canabis, license grow house mortgagee's and tax the proceeds to stablize abandoned property values and tap into an underground economic revenue stream prior to entering the regressive sales tax and laundering fee schemes.

Problem solved. /snark

The way to put a stop to externalities is, of course, to internalize them:

  1. Big daily fines from local government on nuisance properties, liened to property.
  2. Authorize class-action suits by neighbors, judgments liened to property.

Enact either one and those properties will be sold off pronto. Either by the owners or the lien holders.

Won't work for places like Detroit of course but it certainly will work any place where people are willing to pay to have a place to live.

wen white houz bandond, can stays?

Mike from Long Island wrote: "The sad part is I've had a few people approach me who were interested in buying the house but had no luck getting in touch with Deutsche Bank"

The banks have been given a blank check from our friend Ben Bernanke. They don't have to sell these assets, which is why most REO's are the most expensive listings.

Bailout means taxpayer dollars. E-mail Ben and tell him what you think.

Federal Reserve Board: Contact Us

Won't work for places like Detroit of course but it certainly will work any place where people are willing to pay to have a place to live.

The problem is price and has been. In the 80's when this happened where I was, properties like these ended up being sold for -78-80% from the high of that boom. The same thing will happen to most of these place at least the ones that aren't burnt to the ground, some investor group comes in and buys some of them up in bulk but in the end a lot will end up being HUD homes.

Squats! It was quite common in Amsterdam and Rotterdam (about 20 years ago) for landlords to allow students to live free in otherwise vacant houses under a contract where they agreed to upkeep the house for a set period. Several friends lived in quite nice places as a result. I was always amazed that anybody would trust these people, but the system seemed to work reasonably well - except for all the annoying talk by crusty real squatters that this temporary squatting was helping "the man".

Of course, the only reason landlords agreed to this was there were lots of real squatters who would take over if a house were vacant. Dutch law made it difficult to kick them out once they were established.

The booming real estate market seems to have killed off "legal squatting". Or maybe it's just that everyone I knew then is now solidly bobo (bourgeois bohemian) rather than hobo.

Randos - authorities, experts, technicians who claim through their connections at an important foundation that "the bottom is in"

Quandos - people who continually ask other people when the bottom will be in. Often journalists (originally used to describe smug, self-satisfied foreign journalists)

Landos - people who try to tell you that real estate will always go up, usually because they’re not making any more land (Except in Holland see comments above re: Holland)

Lladros - statues, artifacts, figurines that have so flooded the illegal goods trade that fences won’t buy them from Bandos any longer

Zimbando - someone who wants, hopes, editorializes that inflating the money supply is the right thing to do to get us out of the housing mess (Often big promoters of glod and sliver)

CDOdos - someone who collects (by any method) the paper of risky tranches of CDOs (possibly in the hope of selling them on Ebay in ten years time as mementos)

Canabados - hemp growing Bando (see comments above)

Porndos, Bandominuims (see other comments above)

I am firmly of the mind that stripping abandoned tract homes for scrap material is going to be a growth industry. I am also short the long bond and long in Petrobras for the next 12 months. Any input?

In a talk in London in 1999 on land value taxation Professor Mason
Gaffney of the University of California referred to the reaction of some
right-wing libertarian economists to calls for economic justice. Their
response is “TANSTAAFL” (there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch). As
he pointed out, they are wrong. The truth is TISATAAFL (there is such a
thing as a free lunch); and the important questions are WIGI (who is
getting it?) and WOTGI (who ought to get it?). Where the issuing of
new money is concerned, the answers are: the commercial banks are now
getting the free lunch; in future all citizens ought to get their share of it –
as public revenue.

In this neck of the woods (where our motto used to be 'it's different here') we call 'em squatters:

Foreclosures in Jamaica now home to squatters, druggies - making ghost town

Can anyone offer insight as to why these foreclosed homes tend to sit vacant so long? Is it really banks waiting for a full-price bailout (or a full-price buyer), or is it legal holdups (I thought once an owner is out, the house can be put on the market). Defnintely seems like a problem our any "housing reform" advocates should be required to deal with.

NYC once had a terrible problem with vacant properties sitting idle, and bringing drugs, prostitution and other crimes to neighborhoods, and those days are coming back again.

Sequoia -

Eh, not so much, really. The correlation between alcohol and violence is at least as great as the for meth and crack - if not greater - and that correlation is very well established in a long historical record.

Do you not consider Al Capone and his ilk at least as bad in terms of violence as MS-13? Why are thompson guns banned? When was Capone active?

As with all these things, the nostalgic patina which 'history' acquires tends to sanitize our memory.

There is nothing new under the sun in human nature.

(Often big promoters of glod and sliver)

Huh?

There is nothing new under the sun in human nature.
Scott | 04.27.08 - 9:47 am | #

Keep reminding folks - you can't say that often enough around here.

"I am also short the long bond"

I think the long bond is in a huge bubble. I have been itching to get in on that trade, but if we are facing a prolonged period of increasing unemployment and economic weakness, it might be a while before the long bond makes its move. If the Fed holds or signals it's done, I'm in.

If I'm not mistaken, in the 1980s there was quite a large 'squat this building' movement in the NYC area. There were scores (the number I recall was in the thousands) of abandoned mid rise buildings. A number of these were taken over by non-paying tenants, who would have been homeless otherwise. Mostly, it was a good thing for all..
Later, some of these 'squats' saw their home 'ownership' grandfathered in.
Does anyone in NYC remember details of this?

"If I'm not mistaken, in the 1980s there was quite a large 'squat this building' movement in the NYC area. There were scores (the number I recall was in the thousands) of abandoned mid rise buildings."

San Francisco also had plenty of squatters in the 80s, though mainly in abandoned industrial buildings in the South of Market area. I went to huge punk and performance art shows in abandoned factory buildings. The punks would even steal electricity from PG&E.

A lot of cities underwent big changes in the 70s and 80s -- outflow of middle class, factory closings -- and this led to a lot of abandoned property and, inevitably, squatting.

Now the old South of Market is the trendy SOMA, and luxury hotels and condos and a ball park have replaced the old industrial buildings. And the squatters. So it goes.

Yossarian, I was just a kid in Jersey back then but I remember reading articles about the phenomenon.

And the legal doctrine that would allow squatters to establish ownership is called adverse possession . . . the time requirements to establish it vary depending on the jurisdiction but are often 10-20 years.

Gary,

I'm from Jersey too and I believe there is no adverse possession in NJ.

In The Glass Castle (a memoir), the author's parents squatted in a half-finished apartment building in Queens, I think, and tapped the power co lines. Eventually they were grandfathered in. This was apparently in the 80's.

Now the old South of Market is the trendy SOMA, and luxury hotels and condos and a ball park have replaced the old industrial buildings. And the squatters. So it goes.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 04.27.08 - 10:50 am | #

Ya now the squatters are moving into suburbia... looks like the middle classies who wanted to get away from the urban riff raff can't shake'em. Not surprising - they are more closely connected than the middle class want to believe... it doesn't take much of a fall to go from middle class 'respectability' to would be squatter... most all of us are just a job loss & fore closure away from squatting, either 'for real' or on a friend/family couch.

Can't help but think the difference in rural/urban population between then and now won't be of significance. Judging from the census it's gone from about a 50-50 split to 80-20.

I remember the squats in NYC. They were due to buildings that had been abandoned by their landlords in tax default. The city took possession, but usually sat on its hands in managing the buildings. Some of the buildings that had legitimate tenants got to buy as condos. Some of the illegal squats were legalized. In one celebrated case, however, a squatted building near Tompkin Square park was attacked at dawn in military fashion with an amored card by the police to evict the squatters, which they did.

I am of two minds on the squatters.

  1. They do ruin neighborhood values a la South Central LA. It was a nice suburb turned slum between 1931 and 1934.
  2. One of my grandfathers admitted to me shortly before his death he survived as a squatter in 1932 through spring 1935.

The best thing for everyone is to cycle these homes through the system fast! Get the foreclosure process down to 90 days from its current 180+! Sell the home for whatever its worth. If that is ten cents on the dollar... SOLD!

Keep people employed, sheltered, and the economy going. So what if the housing 'perpetual motion machine' is broken. Wink

Got Popcorn?
Neil

OT: Barrons finds a copy of Greespan's long-lost Ph.D. dissertation at NYU. For a guy that didn't anticipate or even see the developing housing bubble, he sure had a lot to say about it in his 1977 dissertation...

Looking at Greenspan's Long-Lost Thesis - Barrons.com

cd

Keep people employed, sheltered, and the economy going. So what if the housing 'perpetual motion machine' is broken. Wink

Amen to that on this Sunday morning.

As to commodities, doesn't exactly look like a bubble to me but simply a solid correction from a very long time low.

Why would they have been low for a long time? Seems like corrections are more typically from short-term aberrations.

I think the two major factors commodity bulls need to address (again, talking generally, not about specific commodities) are 1) why did commodities take off the very day the Fed cut rates at the discount window and 2) why are surges in the prices of commodities like oil directly associated with speculative long positions in futures contracts?

As far as Krugman pointing out low levels of inventory in commodities, he could have pointed out the low availability of tech stocks at the beginning of the tech bubble or the low housing inventory during the housing bubble.

Inventory is not the issue. The issue is whether credit is allowing people and institutions to pay unsustainable prices. The interaction between commodity prices, speculative long positions, and Federal Reserve rate cuts suggests to me that it is the latter rather than the former.

In any case gold is looking less like a bubble every day.

sdtfs,
Might I suggest this darling bungalo for your squatter vacation destination?
Exurban Nation: Extreme Fixer

ATA Truck Tonnage index DECLINES 3.3 PERCENT in March

BARLINGTON, VA — The American Trucking Associations’ advanced seasonally adjusted For-Hire Truck Tonnage Index fell 3.3 percent in March 2008, after remaining unchanged in February.

{snip}

We just had our first foreclosure in our neighborhood and there is a bidding war on the house. Not all areas of the country are experiencing the problems of CA, FL and the Rust belt.

Does not mean that the problems won't "trickle down though".

Inventory is not the issue. The issue is whether credit is allowing people and institutions to pay unsustainable prices. The interaction between commodity prices, speculative long positions, and Federal Reserve rate cuts suggests to me that it is the latter rather than the former.

Inventory IS part of the issue.

It takes both ac - money supply AND a tight inventory condition somewhere preferably in an 'inelastic' product/service - to get one of these feedback loops going.

If there was a glut of inventory (like there is NOW in housing) or a product with highly elastic demand then the spec's moving in would have been met with a ton of supply being 'released' & the price wouldn't have budged enough to feed their appreciation jones... they would have moved on to something else. They don't buy just to buy - they buy to appreciate. Not enough appreciation & they move on.

But that is the nature of all spec markets - keep turning over rocks until you find one that responds then work it hard. Those that get there firstest with mostest win. They KNOW those opportunities are out there given enough liquidity... they just don't know before hand which one will respond... so go find it & they did - commodities.

"why did commodities take off the very day the Fed cut rates at the discount window"

They took off in 03 all wars are inflationary especially ones that have a tax cut included and are funded by forgein countries who have no choice to recycle our largest export dollars. The same dynamics that caused the housing bubble which is now popped will lead to a bubble in commodities thanks to a FED who is intent on bailing out insolvent banks and a congress and administration that think they have unlimited check writing ability on an overdrawn account. A new administration will not change this. This will end bad like always but that is the nature of the beast.

whosonfirst - don't take this as legal advice, but:

In New Jersey, the duration of such possession is sixty (60) years for uncultivated land and thirty (30) years for other real estate. New Jersey Code §2A-14-30.

Pretty g-damn hard to accomplish but it's still there. Every state in the union has some form of adverse possession. The doctrine comes from old English common law (like most our laws).

But that is the nature of all spec markets - keep turning over rocks until you find one that responds then work it hard. Those that get there firstest with mostest win. They KNOW those opportunities are out there given enough liquidity... they just don't know before hand which one will respond... so go find it & they did - commodities.

Well, again we're just seeing one gold rush after another. Buying panic. Selling panic. Buying panic. Selling panic. Just like the 1920s.

IMO when you have people on a blog who have no business buying delivery contracts for oil talking about buying delivery contracts for oil you know something is going on.

Again, I think it's key for people to understand that low inventory doesn't enable people to spend money they don't have. Credit does.

It is credit IMO that is fundamental to the existence of bubbles.

Again, look at the chart of oil and keep in mind that the Fed began easing monetary policy on August 17, 2007.

Too much coincidence for my simple mind.

"read the IMF’s “Regional Economic Outlook: Europe”, published this week."

EU could not possible survive without USofA, right? FYI, while you wasted most of your tax monies to stupid wars and weapon systems, Europe invested in education, infrastucture, alternative energy research projects, getting rid of internal trade barriers etc etc etc.

EU15 is in much better shape than USA now and new eastern european nations are also improving all the time. While there might be Great Depression II in EU, USA will look like something out of Mad Max, combined with Escape from LA.

Again, look at the chart of oil and keep in mind that the Fed began easing monetary policy on August 17, 2007.

Also note that gold also went ballistic on August 17, 2007 even though it has gone unballistic in recent weeks.

Nova wrote:

Wachovia Is Under Renewed Scrutiny After Report on U.S. Probe

By David Mildenberg

April 26 (Bloomberg) -- Wachovia Corp.'s business practices drew scrutiny for the second time in as many days after a report that the bank has been ensnared in a federal probe of drug-money laundering tied to Mexican and Colombian transfer companies.


mock turtle adds

not the first time the powerful have been associated with corrupt banking practices.

the current prez's family held an account at now defunct BCCI (investigated and busted by none other than sen John Kerry and others for drug money laundering and financing terrorist related activities)

and prez received very timely contracts and "support from BCCI affiliated individuals when his wanna be oil company was nearly bust, amidst the front page news stories and investigations of corruption.

(note john h sonunu was B1s chief of staff)

Essay; B.C.C.I. and Sununu - The New York Times

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1992/09/bushboys.html

AC,

"... Also note that gold also went ballistic on August 17, 2007 even though it has gone unballistic in recent weeks. ..."

It helps being familiar with the cycles of the investment target one concentrates on. Gold has its own seasonality issues, quite different from oil, obviously. If you check out the following seasonality chart of gold then the recent decline and your August 17 rise gets placed into perspective quite quickly.

404 Not Found

Correlation does not imply causation though I clearly agree with you that recent Fed actions influenced gold. Gold is after all first and foremost NOT a commodity but a currency and will generally reflect and amplify monetary actions especially when it concerns the senior currency.

Too much coincidence for my simple mind.

But some stuff DIDN'T go up after that date - financial assets not much, RE went down, etc.

You need two ingredients - from a tactical level - to generate a bubble. A target product that is both limited in supply and inelastic in demand AND a lot of money supply. After August we had both - and they intersected in 'commodities'... should not come as a surprise to anyone.

The thing about steep & inelastic demand curves is they can reverse just about as fast. I think mp has been sounding that alarm for awhile - I think he is right. People ought to be aware of how these things reverse even before they jump in with both feet. That's exactly why I DON'T get into that stuff - I'm too slow getting out. I'd be a casualty for sure.

But that doesn't mean I can't recognize the ingredients - I'm just a lousy cook.

Just to add to the picture, here is the seasonality chart of crude. Interesting what happens in August...

404 Not Found

"The best thing for everyone is to cycle these homes through the system fast! Get the foreclosure process down to 90 days from its current 180+! Sell the home for whatever its worth. If that is ten cents on the dollar... SOLD!"

Otherwise local governments should seize them and knock them down. The Feds should be turning empty developments into wheat fields.

EU15 is in much better shape than USA now and new eastern european nations are also improving all the time. While there might be Great Depression II in EU, USA will look like something out of Mad Max, combined with Escape from LA.
AlphaBeta | 04.27.08 - 1:11 pm | #

The south & east of EU will look like Mad Max II - maybe worse than US as they'd need an even longer & more convoluted 'fence' than we have along the Tex-Mex. The same forces that hollowed out US a decade ago are now hollowing out EU - if this goes on a few years they'll get their Mad Max Moment.

Dryfly-

Absolutely the squatters have followed the move out to the boonies^d^d^d^d^d^d^d suburbs. They're exploiting the lack of a market. Squatters are a lagging indicator of housing (over) growth.

First really saw this in mid 80s LA, but only because they bulldozed so many of the empty houses in Texas (mostly outside Houston). Don't remember the movie about it, but RepoMan had an example or two.

Otherwise local governments should seize them and knock them down. The Feds should be turning empty developments into wheat fields.
John S | 04.27.08 - 1:57 pm | #

I even heard a scientist from Delaware say there are low cost ways to rehab the soil too - mixing charcoal with it. Works for played out farm fields too. I guess it is a 'technology' meso-americans used for thousands of years & 'lost' when Columbus arrived.

joeblo - squatters have always been a part of rural life (farm country)... they will come as a real shock to suburbanites... but they are coming.

RE - nice chart earlier

You might consider a log plot - easier to see growth rate jumps since constant growth is straight line.

For those of you who cling to the notion that commodities are a "bubble"... IMO, commodities are going up because the price of oil is going up.. Oil is a commodity upon which all the others are based. We have an oil based civilization. We are at peak oil. If don't agree with that notion, fine. But do your research first. We have reached the limits of population exponential growth and are bumping up against resource limits...Erlich was correct, he just got the timing wrong. Understand what exponential growth means...the day before the pond was full of lilly pads, it was only half full. Ponder that.

Ah - those "efficient free markets" we keep hearing about - aren't they wonderful!?

All those empty houses would fill quickly if the housing market were truly efficient. Prices would drop until there was a buyer for every house.

I remember seeing one boarded up apartment complex after another here in the Houston area back in the 80s while the ranks of the homeless continued to swell.

There has to be a better way.

vanditos,

Vandos who murder bandos for fun.

To sum up: squatters go places where buildings are and people aren't. And increasingly, "people aren't" in many of the bubble 'burbs.

"" Otherwise local governments should seize them and knock them down. The Feds should be turning empty developments into wheat fields.""

John, I told friends in Phoenix five years ago that it would come to this. Phoenix (and almost every American metro) paved over productive farmland almost everywhere. That was essentially the only land use plan that Phoenix Metro has ever seen.

Draw the curve of declining value for suburbs, the upward curve for commodities, and at some point they meet.. and it makes economic sense to rip out the suburbs and return to more agriculture.

Commodities like wheat are being driven up in price by speculation and hedging just like the housing market was. These empty developments could be used for foreclosed home buyers starting over maybe. It's just one speculative bubble driven by the Fed and the Feds after another. Why should this engineered RE bubble lead to bulldozing. Save these homes; kick out the squatters and dope dealers. Can't the police just do their jobs? Build America up...don't tear it down. The bubble shouldn't end in destruction of property.

The Guest:

We have too many houses. I can't stress enough, the value of doing your homework on this. The numbers are extremely impressive. Read the archives.
The bubble IS ending in at least some wanton destruction of property.
I'm only suggesting one view of the future.
What the hell does 'Build America Up" mean? Don't you think we've gone through enough mindless jingoism in the US?

Kee-rist.

Otherwise local governments should seize them and knock them down.

Owners must receive fair compensation, i.e. market value, for property taken by government.

Unreserved auction. If there are no buyers, the property is worthless, and yes then they can knock them down.

a classic negative externality.

Actually, if they're squatting, isn't it more of an internality?

To me, being homeless would be the externality.

RE | 04.26.08 - 10:13 pm | #
Dow Jones vs. CRB Spot - Historical

Really cool. Wonder where CRB is going !!

regards

sbarrkum

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