As I recall the BLS decided that substitution of less expensive goods caused the CPI to be overstated. The CPI is going to plunge if people keep this up. "Hey YOU! Hands off the Keystone Light! You're screwing up our data gathering."
Perhaps this explains Krugman's column a couple of weeks ago where he showed a graph demonstrating how the economy has performed under both Democratic and Republican administrations.
I'm just going to guess that the Democratic economy performed better because their policies tend to favor the poor and middle-class who have to spend every dime they make, thereby driving up overall economic activity. But, the Republican economy tends to crush that same demographic because you can't be rich unless you are richer than someone else, which pretty much requires the existence of penniless peons dying in boxes under bridges.
It has been quite a few years since white cans with black letters appeared displaying "BEER" on the can. When I was in high school, it still served it's purpose.
I was supporting the Red Sox but now I'm supporting the Padres?
In my socioeconomic strata the name brands are the cheaper alternatives. What always pisses me off about these kinds of articles is the presumption that the upper middle class and above don't adjust or are less frugal. I am obliged to refresh everyone's memory as to the Midas muffler commercial.
[Midas muffler commercial.]
Was this the "Pay me now, or pay me later" commerical?
R. Manhammer
No, the "How do you think a man like me got to be a man like me?" commercial. The rich engage in better economic strategies than the poor. They clip coupons for instance and shop in bulk where appropriate. The NYRimes article in classic 4th estate disengagement perpetuates the myths of consumer behavior.
CPI food inflation has behaved itself the past few months, even while food commodity prices spiked. Further, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that processed/packaged food producers are raising prices after holding the line for months. So why the tame CPI figures?
I think MLM has it right in his post above: the minions at BLS have been busy substituting Spam for Parma Prosciutto; canned tuna for King Salmon; and Kool-Aid for fresh milk in the CPI calculation.
Holly Levitsky, a 56-year-old supermarket cashier in Cleveland, buys a brand of steak sauce called Briargate for 85 cents and surreptitiously pours it into an A1 steak sauce bottle she keeps at home.
My husband cant even tell the difference, she said.
See this is how it starts.
Next they you know the wife is pouring Alpo into empty cans of Dinty Moore beef stew.
I'm seeing a ton of downgrading at work. A group of us 'coffee snobs' had to form our own club as the bulk have downgraded below what I want to drink.
More of us are carpooling (including myself) despite our odd and 'flexible' hours.
But I agree with Rob Dawg, the true 'upper middle class' have being doing this behaviour anyway. We haven't yet bought an HDTV. In fact, we're far enough behind the curve a relative is giving up their 37" LCD to make room for their upgrade. My wife and I buy food in bulk (when discounted) and freeze the surplus.
Has anyone else noted that prime cuts of beef often go on super sale? To the point its worth feezing six to eight pounds. We've always eaten out less than the sheeple (and eaten better). Anyone else notice that veggie quality at Costco is dropping?
Manhammer- "I'm reasonably sure that a can of Alpo costs as much as a can of Dinty Moore. Last I heard that was an urban legend."
In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
My sister living near Detroit says she knows a recession is coming when the premium goods (complete opposite of inferior goods) goes massively on sale. For example - two years ago I was out at her house and she was grilling a whole tenderloin (the cut filet mignon comes from)... she said (paraphrased):
"Can you believe it, my grocery has them on sale for $6 a pound... crappy hamburger sells for $3 a pound... yet the butcher says they can't sell the tenderloins 'cause no one has the extra money, they all buy crappy hamburger instead and he gives the filet away... the auto plants must be laying off again."
She doesn't even need to read th ebiz section... cheap filet means laid off auto workers.
So she fills her freezer during recessions - haven't talked to her lately but my guess is its filling now even at these 'inflated' prices.
I invested in a hogs and cattle commodity etf a while back and have been watching the price fall relentlessly. However, looking at the chart, the price over the last 2 weeks certainly looks like it is starting to quietly ecover after the long fall. On that basis I think meat is sooon going to start getting significantly more expensive.
A friend of mine who took a marketing class remarked that middle-class folks tend to go by brand rather than value, and the upper-class consumer tends to do the reverse.
However, with financial strains, middle-class folks begin to realize the virtue of choosing value over brand, something that may last for a while.............
Seriously, there's something wrong with our perception of good nutrition when a freshly prepared home cooked spaghetti dinner is considered an "inferior good" to a high fat, high calorie meal from Domino's or Ruby Tuesday's that is made from the cheapest bulk ingredients.
On the subject of pet foods, what gives with the fancy pet supermarkets - petsmart, petco... People wander around buying up expensive crap for their pets. Talk about discretionary.
When I deliver an adoring look towards my dog (the one that has never set foot inside a vet's office), it'll be because I am picturing what it'll look like with an apple in its mouth this Christmas.
Maybe people are also finally realizing that brand names don't mean shit these days, especially after Wal-Mart got done diluting them by forcing some brands to mass produce garbage that Wal-Mart could sell for knocked-down prices.
Yesterday I was in Costco and the checkout person told me that "everything" in Costco has gone up a lot in price. By "everything" I think he actually meant food because he called off some increases in food prices. But I'm not sure. The place seemed lightly attended for a weekend. Mind you this Costco is in a very affluent neighborhood in Northern California.
You can still get an all-beef kosher hot dog + drink for $1.50 + tax. Still a real bargain.
On the subject of pet foods, what gives with the fancy pet supermarkets - petsmart, petco... People wander around buying up expensive crap for their pets. Talk about discretionary.
I think stores like that along with Starbucks may be symptomatic of the US bubble-driven superconsumer.
Will be interesting to see if they make it through the next decade.
I believe that the demographic who shops at Petsmart would forego their own meals before they stop shopping there. Besides they have no kids to waste their money on.
I almost never buy anything prepared, and make everything myself. And I clip coupons too, and if it's not on sale I don't buy it. I even got a little device that carbonates water because I was sick of paying over a buck for water with some bubbles in it.
I learned that grocery shopping in the one area that you can really save a ton of money in if you do it right. And it's easy to do it wrong. And once you are used to making things, it honestly doesn't take that long and isn't that involved.
And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food. Tuna is tuna, pasta is pasts, sugar is sugar. If it's shoes you're talking about, then sure, but flour? And value doesn't always mean cheapest either.
We have a long way to go before substitution of inferior foods gets us to the standard of living enjoyed by our grandparents.
I think of the stories my mother told of taking a thermos of water flavored with soy sauce to school. One piece of fruit for a snack. Sneaking into a neighbors yard to steal fruit. Or my great-grandfather having eggs for breakfast and boiling his coffee in a pot with the egg shells in it to keep the grounds from floating up when he poured it.
Beer... there is no substitute... except for cheaper beer.
On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
Man my dog likes beer too, but the spoiled mutt will only drink from a bottle. ;^) no really he can't get his mouth around a can, but loves long necks. Nothing sadder than a dog with a hang-over.
Must have happened to conjure too... after eating some salesman hopped up on "the bad stuff"?
w,
And using bark for toilet paper was luxurious until the trees were gone. Then, they used their youngest sibling's head. The old days were rough, especially if you were the youngest.
In college my brother cooked up a batch of alpo chili and we all at it. It was fine. In fact, I would describe it as better then Dinty Moore beef stew.
mp: In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
It may be that the Alpo was actually an input product.
As a single guy I go outta my way to reduce food costs. I have nobody to impress so I eat to survive. My record? Approx 60 cents a day. Depending on how good the garden is the end of summer/fall I am going to try for even less.
And the people I work with wonder how I can afford a huge road trip in the Cobra starting Tuesday...
This shift has been going on quietly for a very long time -- 10 years or more I would guess. Of course I am in central Canada, so your mileage may vary.
A couple of indicators
--growth of the dollar stores offering new items very cheap
--growth of thrift shops, both commercial and charity based
But more important than their existence, is the movement of the middle class into the customer base of these stores. And these stores, along with Wal-Mart, have undercut the more midrange stores. Now we come to the crunch and people who saw the cheapie stores as one option among many, will move to them nearly exclusively.
Anyone else notice that veggie quality at Costco is dropping?
Yes. I attribute it to three/four things. Costco has become popular for prepared veggies straining supply. Transport costs are way up for perishables probably extending ship times. Suppliers get more "efficient" as they integrate into the Costco system meaning they manage to get more past the QC inspections. Growers are doing a little substituting of their own as more cash crops are likely to marginalize the land used for bulk consumable crops like veggies.
Chris! Wow, .60! I'm impressed. I can do a day for about $8 i figure. I'm single too, but when I think back on what we ate as kids, I know my parents were very smart shoppers and they didn't spend much. And to be honest, my mom cuts out coupons she knows i'll use and gives them to me once a week
We also didn't wear 200 jeans or have 100 dollar sneakers either. and imagine the horror of sharing a room with your brother! Or sharing a bathroom. we were so deprived LOL
Thanks for answering. So in effect, Costco's veggie quality is the end result of:
1. A mature market (they've figured out how to game QA).
2. Demand for buying in bulk (Costco has no choice but to accept marginal product.)
The consumer is desperate and stretched. To think... I do want people to pay their mortgages.
Fun at last! I've loved peanut butter all my 65 yr, had to make it from peanuts in Switzerland for 2 yr, I eat a pound in 6 days, buy a 6 mo supply at a time -- I could and did stop working at 48 yr.
Keystone Light? Man thats a really deep recession!
No way, that's high end stuff. When I was in college we drink this crap called Red, White and Blue. It was like 3.95 a case. That's serious recession drinking. Oh and something we fondly called "The Green Death" Haffenreffer I do believe. They had puzzles on the caps.
Let me just say that in my limited experience the growers who do not work with CostCo/Walmart are the one's who work with chains like Trader Joes and Tesco. Either you grow to Costco standards (price>quality) or you don't.
Tea bags from the dollar store (100/$1) are darn good if you treat them right.
One bent n dent outlet I found, has huge quantities of fancy chocolate bars (like Scharffen Berger, and the Cacao Reserve's from Hershey's). Priced at 1/4-1/3 of retail. Why ? Because the stuff didn't sell at full retail and went out of date. So far all of them seem fine by my standards.
Look forward to the fancy chocolate bar sections to shrink shelf space if this keeps up.
Just had the wife start stocking up on chicken, turkey, and beef. She scored the filet mignon at COSTCO today for $9.49/lb. Once the high priced grains work their way through the food chain, I look for $17+ on the filet. Makes more money in the freezer than in a CD.
You wouldn't believe the people I know who would never step into a scratch and dent store...Great way to save a buck !!
ipodius | 04.27.08 - 7:57 pm | #
Beans,rice and a kick ass garden when I lived up north. The best way to save is like everybody says...Buy in bulk and store. I bought a package sealer at Sams Club and divide my stuff up for storage. Also,I grew up on a farm so I am a current member of the Farm Bureau. They run some kick ass sales for bulk food items. The current killer offer is like 2.00/lb Angus beef hamburgers !!! Ways to save are out there,people just have to be willing to look...
Here's your veterinary short - ticker WOOF (I'll leave it to the group to add the puns about what kind of an investment this might be.) It seems to have everything but cosmetic surgery!
VCA Antech, Inc. operates as an animal healthcare services company in the United States. The company offers veterinary services and diagnostic testing to support veterinary care; and markets diagnostic imaging equipment, and other medical technology products and related services to the veterinary market.
It operates in three segments: Laboratory, Animal Hospital, and Medical Technology.
The Laboratory segment operates a network of veterinary diagnostic laboratories that provide testing and consulting services used by veterinarians in the detection, diagnosis, evaluation, monitoring, treatment, and prevention of diseases and other conditions affecting animals.
The Animal Hospitals segment operates freestanding and full-service animal hospitals, which offers a range of general medical and surgical services for companion animals. It also offers specialized treatments, including advanced diagnostic services, internal medicine, oncology, ophthalmology, dermatology, and cardiology, as well as provides pharmaceutical products. In addition, this segment performs pet wellness programs, including health examinations, diagnostic testing, routine vaccinations, spaying, neutering, and dental care
A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant operated by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu...
Weirdly, my response is to buy less cheaper stuff and more of the better stuff (except perhaps for highly perishable food) on the theory that it lasts longer. I would rather eat one good meal a day than three crappy ones. I buy one or two "good" pairs of shoes in a year rather than a bunch of cheap ones. But then I'm a seventies jeans and t-shirt kid, so we're well prepared for economic downturns. The hair gets longer with fewer haircuts (actually I do it myself, as well as the color), we drive the old cars longer (hey, it's paid for), etc.
But we're the low end of rich, with barely any debt. So recessions actually become a time when the quality of the goods we buy tends to get better as more stuff goes on sale.
I've traded grain futures on and off for many years. Right now what sticks in my mind is that it takes about seven lbs of grain to put one lb. of meat on a steer, 5 lbs to add one lb of meat on a pig and about 2 1/2 lbs of corn to put one on a chicken and less than 2 lbs of grain to add one lb of meat on a fish.
The inferior good here can produce a lot more meat but "cheaper" meat. Also at some point, if we cut back on ethanol production, there will be a lot more feed grain around.
Second,it seems every spring a crop is threatened by a "new" disease. This year it's U99. Wheat annually gets an afflotoxin scare and soybeans get a rust scare or "sudden death syndrome" scare, just to name a few. Between the farmers and the pesticide folks the problem in most cases turns out to be limited in scope.
Yep, springtime begins the "fear and greed season"!
Just had a rabbit hop across the front yard and there weren't any gun shots, when the bullets start flying I'll let you know. Survived college in the 70's on a wild rabbit, trout line catfish, poached deer, and gigged frog legs from a private pond diet. Money was for beer and dope. Party!
Artificial Intelligence is sure to make mind boggling advances in the years ahead.
Heh. Those of us actually in the computer science field have been hearing that for fifty, count 'em fifty, years now. AI is the snake oil of the computer science world.
You'll know that we've reached rock bottom when people are drinking Gloden Anniversary . . . the worst beer I've ever had.
Heineken, VCorona, Amstel are only "premium" beers because they've been marketed to an insane degree. There is no difference to me bewteen one of those and a shitty domestic pilsner type beer (Bud, Miller, Natural Light, etc..
Now, when people are eschewing Sierra Nevada for a Keystone, that's a sad sad day.
Had a post fired up and haloscan zapped it saying "duplicate post"..
Whatever. The Piels longnecks at $4.99/case with the returns were a college staple, along with Meisterchow er MeisterBrau, Genesee Creme Ale, and PBR's.
The best value was to be found in Strohs since they came 30 to a case...
I was thinking that the latest and greatest according to my uncle was about 3-1 for hogs. I do know he just spent 14k for a single sow and over 25k for a boar. Supposedly some of the best engineered available right now. 10k farrow to finish currently...
With huge herds and rfid its getting pretty easy to only breed the absolute best producers.
I got cat food in my mouth once and it was horrible, truly horrible.
True weird history. Lewis and Clarke got to the west coast finally & saw all the Indians, excuse me, native americans? indogines? whatever, eating salmon, as it was salmon run season. The were graciously offered some and said, no thanks, we'll buy some dogs from you and eat them. And so it was.
My peach tree is full of teeny tiny peaches. Learned from Vanna White after Wheel patter, that you are supposed to cull the peaches, so next year I guess I'll have a good crop.
I wish the pecan trees would finally produce something. The turnips will be ready next week and the green beans the week or 2 after that. And I have the citrus still, but not for much longer.
To me the inferior good is the Dominos or Taco Bell. Nobody even knows what good food is supposed to taste like. I am willing to pay a lot of money for really good food--like homemade butter from the health food store.
Often quality isn't really that much more expensive--as y'all have pointed out.
Harris, its not the end of the world (just the end of an era) if you can't wear a $37k watch....I'll work up a bid for your PatekP and give you first dibs if I need to unload it....last thing, this unwind is going to be so ugly that the masters of the universe would be well-advised to familiarize themselves with the Raymond Weil line....
Nobody even knows what good food is supposed to taste like.
You are too right. Peoples' standards when it comes to the quality of the food they eat in taste and texture are terrible. Most people seem to equate amount of food in a serving with quality.
we're having a crappy spring up here so planting will be late. My biggest problem is being able to eat all of what I produce in the garden. Canning jars are really hard to find and expensive nowadays. What do you all use for preserving produce.
I wish the article were true in my case. I own a retailer that specializes in certain types of "inferior" goods and had assumed business might be buoyed by the recession. In fact, business has slid slight, consistent with overal declines in retailing seen in other industries. I'm not sure what that means, except that it would appear that people may simply be choosing to purchase less of everything as they tighten their belts--rather than shifting to inferior goods. Or it could be that my firm is bad at marketing and missing out on an opportunity...but if I knew how to do otherwise, I'd be suggesting it!
The greatest sales job of all time has been going on for 30 years. It was an even better sales campaign than convincing Americans to overpay for their homes, which only went on for maybe 10-15 years.
It was convincing Americans (and then people all over the world) to pay too much money to own stocks.
This sales job has involved coordinated activity by huge brokerage firms and their armies of brokers, enormous marketing by mutual funds, vast amounts of media hype, and buy-ins from big institutional investors.
When the sales job fell apart in 2000-02 and stocks came down to reasonable value, the campaign was pumped up again by: 1) insurance companies aiming their vast armies of sales people at "variable" products: 2) the Fed and PPT and their efforts to prop up the market by injeting leverage and liquidity; and 3) the whole hedge fund wave, which propped up the crumbling stock sales campaign in its last years.
It's not that stocks aren't worth anything. But they are over-valued by around 30-60% on average.
For a quality company that has real sustainable earnings of 10% or so per year and pays a dividend of 3-4% per year, you should be willing to pay a trailing P/E ratio of about 10-15.
The problem is that so few companies fit the description. Investors were duped into paying twice that P/E for companies that pay little or no dividends, that artificially inflated earnings using Ponzi-like tricks, and have no ability to sustain close to the same earnings growth rate in a slower U.S. economy.
Everybody is asking how long the recession will last. The more important question is: What will real U.S. GDP and nominal earnings growth average over the next decade. I think the answers are 1-2% and 4-6%.
In both cases, that's between half and two-thirds what it has been in the past.
The U.S. stock market had the right valuation in 2002. Everything since then has been a pumped-up illusion.
So, over the next 12-24 months, the market will adjust back to about where it was in 2002. At that point, stocks will be back toward fair value, and stock market growth can continue, although at a slower pace than in the past, maybe 5-7% long-term, a bit above earnings growth.
The irony in recent news is how many financial companies have been cutting dividends. In the future, investors will only be willing to pay P/Es above 10-15 for those companies that do pay attractive dividends. Without dividends, you are always hoping for a greater fool to buy6 your stocks. The sneakiest part of the 30-year sales con job was to convince stock market investors that dividends don't matter.
The great 30-year stock sales campaign is over. Americans have already lost a lot of faith in the stock market, and at the end of this bear market they will have huge resentment toward stocks and everybody who hyped them too much.
Investors will no longer believe the hype and will focus on what companies are really worth, which is what I said at the top of this post. Microsoft is worth 10-15 times its earnings, especially if it keeps increasing its dividend.
A lot of lesser companies aren't worth P/Es more than 10, and their earnings will grow a lot slower in the future than in the past.
Why am I confident this will happen? Because U.S. earnings are so weak, and the conditions for earnings going forward in the months ahead are terrible. Also, because the 30-year sales con is stretched so thin.
Keystone light: beer in a bottle that tastes like beer in a can, eh?
And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food.
If the corn has pieces of cob stuck to it and there are stems in the green beans, it is definitely not "brand." I've learned which generics are OK and which ones are awful.
I learned from my mother how to get about 16 person-meals from one roasting chicken. No worries here.
yes, they are switching to more unprepared and nonpackaged healthy food, such as more fruits and veggies, and less fat-ladden meats and diary products.
Thrift store inflation: I hit the stores often to find bikes to rebuild. Some to flip, some to donate, some to scavenge for quality period parts .Suntour Superbe, anyone? Bikes that formerly sold for $9.99 to $19.99 are pushing $40.
"leftthread writes:
Thrift store inflation: I hit the stores often to find bikes to rebuild. Some to flip, some to donate, some to scavenge for quality period parts .Suntour Superbe, anyone? Bikes that formerly sold for $9.99 to $19.99 are pushing $40."
Heh. I have a friend that does the same, and he has the same complaint. The illegal workers in his area are buying thrift shop bikes for cheap transportation to work. This is in California.
I see the same thing in my town. Other day around 8:30 in the evening, two older Latinos on bikes in uniform from a lumberyard four miles away, plugging by on bikes. They looked tired.
I generally buy store brands since I figured out that most of them are made in the same plants as "name brand" goods. So much production is contracted out these days. I generally can't tell the difference.
I'd never try to eat for sixty cents a day, but you can eat pretty well for cheap if you stick with bulk food and know how to spice it. Check out my latest blog entry on the New Po' Food.
I got married in an outfit I bought at the goodwill. Hawaiian shirt and khaki shorts. Total cost: $5.
I think that even tops Chris's .60 cent food budget.
Gary | 04.27.08 - 9:25 pm | #
Yep,got me beat!! But I will say,working as a mechanic my work uniforms are provided free of charge. How much do you think I spend a year on clothing?? Yes I shop at the local Goodwills. Why? Christ,there is so much nice stuff from the older crowd here in Florida it is really tough not to.
BTW...Good choice in shirts and shorts(All I wear)!!!
I tend to by the more expensive cuts when they go on sale as they tend to have better meat and less fat. I tend to run to the BOGO sales and stock the freezer. In the proces of buying a small freezer unit for the home for more space as I expect that I might need more freezer space with the garden and other things. As far as inferior goods, I just remember the earlier years of my dad supporting us kids with cut buddy goods. I learned to really hate some of the black label cans and learned how to cook really cheaply with good food. This will be an interesting time for all. Cheers.
I think a lot of folks will downshift into rice and beans before they downgrade their dog's food.
And I'm one of them. Got a second-hand copy of Madhur Jaffrey's cookbook so I can figure out how to cook vegan stuff that doesn't taste like a school lunch.
My dog saves me plenty...skip the shrink and the anti-depressants, skip the gym membership, skip the afterwork drinks and schmooze at the dog run.
If things get desperate, I'll let her off the leash and let her take down the squirrels.
I'd never try to eat for sixty cents a day, but you can eat pretty well for cheap if you stick with bulk food and know how to spice it. Check out my latest blog entry on the New Po' Food.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 04.27.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Bob,
Just remember...Very,very large and diverse garden.
But frankly I was kinda sick of beans and rice for a while after...
Bob, I'm going to try your salad this week. Sounds delicious.
If you all are familiar with Annie Hill's classic, Voyaging on a Small Income (a wealth of thrift-wisdom in itself), you've probably read the excerpt of Weston Martyr's The 200£ Millionaire. A body can be content as a king on very little. We've gotten out of touch with simple pleasures in this country.
Chris, we absolutely love the goodwill. We also give all of our old stuff to the local Salvation Army.
We always try to hit the goodwill when we're traveling. My wedding outfit was bought in Palos Verdes, CA. We were just out there again a few weeks ago visiting family and my wife picked up a couple of fantastic summer shirts for me. Sadly, inflation has struck the goodwill - prices were up about 100% from three years ago . . . but $4 for a great shirt is still a steal.
I still eat out quite a bit; the portions are so large I can usually eat half and bring half home for dinner.
I have a feeling the practive of shifting profit margins to drinks is going to bite the restaurant biz in the ass. Two bucks for a 2 cents worth of soda? Six bucks for a beer/12 dollars for the entree.
Still, the guy surviving on 60 cents a day, that's an accomplishment, but I hope you're popping a vitamin with that regimen. Food is cheap, dr. visits - not so much.
I believe that the demographic who shops at Petsmart would forego their own meals before they stop shopping there. Besides they have no kids to waste their money on.
Pretty much. One of my cats is prone to kidney stones, so he eats pretty expensive food. The others are fine with the cheap stuff. I do get expensive litter. It is better than the cheap stuff, and you don't want to start changing litter brands willy nilly. Bad, bad idea.
Given that they helped me through serious depression, I'll spend what it takes.
"...The Japanese (the largest holder of our T-paper), who own $586.6 billion, or 12 percent of U.S. government debt, had their worst quarter in Treasuries this decade, losing 7 percent in the first three months of the year..."
Inferior goods? Why would the Great America need anything whatsoever inferior? Puuuleeease! US has great manufacturing, services are so well priced and necessary. Technology is so undersaturated. Sebastian is my hero, BTW. Housing is just a manifestation of the wealth created in other market sectors. People don't overspend, not in the US! Credit cards are used only for convenience and monthly balances are predominantly paid at month end. Americans are SO financially saavy, that to presume they didn't see overlending, oversecuritization, overconsumption coming, is ridiculous. America is still the world's growth machine.....Oh! excuse me, China and Asia-general is boycotting our bonds and corporate borrowing? NEVER MIND.
WE ARE SO TOTALLY SCREWED! LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF YOU, 1 OF EVERY 3 PEOPLE WILL BE EATEN BY THEIR NEIGHBORS IN THE NEXT 16 MONTHS. YUM-YUM. I LIKE MINE WITH TENNESSEE BOURBON BARBECUE SAUCE.
Had dinner last night with a local real estate agent (Santa Cruz, CA). Times are tough; she just sold a home, but it was 1) a mobile home, and 2) her first sale since last August. She expects prices to drop for another year. I believe longer, but it's interesting to see this level of reality from an agent. But then she's something of a veteran.
She also talked about a young part-timer in her office who bought a house with a no-down, no-doc loan, immediately took out a second to buy a car and furniture, and is living high for now. Of course the payments are due to reset.
I said he sounded like a con man, but she said, "No, he's just a goofy kid."
Goofy kid deserves to get his knuckles rapped, but it just goes to show: they've been handing out mortgages to anybody to keep the boom going. The hangover's going to be large and long for all of us.
Butternut dyed homespun clothes. rotisserie chipmunk, squirrel, possum. Noodlin' for catfish. Victory gardens. Pliers 'stead o' dentists. Copious alkihol fer complaints stead o' dokters. Grain boiled cereal fur breakfast. Critter kilt slabbed out hunks broilt fer dinner. 2 squares -- you wants 3? whatchu a Rockerfeller? Get usta sukin' it up lazy, wafer boned whitey americaner! Youse ain't seen nothin' yet -- as ter' suffrin'. If you can't grow your own food, have shelter paid for, clothes in good supply or able-to-be-made, personal security. Bye-bye. Wave to me as you are twirlin' on the spit! Me likes soft dumb Amerikaner flesh well cooked!
Well, as a bitter renter, I like the idea that housing is getting less expensive (slowly) and as a locovore/SLOE food person it delights me that food is getting more expensive. Perhaps this will cause people to think more about what they're buying. Food has been outlandishly under-priced for the past 10-15 years or so, with extraordinary unintended consequences (see:Pollan: Botany of Desire, In Defense of Food, Omnivore's Dilemma, etc)
BTW< I see no evidence of food inflation out here in the Bay Area for people that eat well. Good produce costs a lot, but it doesn't cost more this year then last. Likewise, sustainably raised meat doesn't seem to be more expensive either. Parm Reg is still $22/lb for the good wheels. Looks normal to me. Local strawberries are in, local toms are in, it's supposed to be a good cherry season... life is good - now if only rents and house prices would drop - and not just volume.
Ipodius said "And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food. Tuna is tuna, pasta is pasts, sugar is sugar. If it's shoes you're talking about, then sure, but flour? And value doesn't always mean cheapest either."
Your first example, tuna, is sooooo pathetic. I know, because my dad is a commercial fisherman and I can all of my own tuna myself. My step-mom also has it canned commercially and sold at some grocery stores and fish markets throughout the state. HUGE difference between this and the cheap crap.
Pasta-
Most of the stuff at my local grocery is of similar quality, except for the really expensive stuff, and that is hardly worth the premium. Good pasta is homemade. I love to mix in some fresh spinach for even better flavor.
Sugar-
There is certainly a difference between sugar, however it usually makes no difference when baking. Good sugar is cane sugar, the "bad" sugar is beet sugar. The biggest difference is that the beet sugar stinks. Seriously, smell the difference between C&H and the off brand.
When it comes to flour, it pretty much all sucks(taste and nutrition) compared to freshly milled...
One example that I really notice, is the differing quality of canned black beens. S&W always seem to have good flavor and are correctly cooked. Others, even the local "organic", sometimes are of much lower quality.
I do agree however that occasionally the cheaper brand is better, but that is usually more of an exception than a rule. Store brand cheeses generally suck.
Ok, I'm not going to compete on 'cheapness' here, since we're already sounding like that Monty Python routine "Oooh, we would have LOVED to live in a box by the side of a road...."
Here are two inflation calculators... quick and dirty. The first, calculates using only the CPI as a deflator. In the second, the NASA one, gives you several different ways to measure inflation, and calculate its effects. Cool. Quick. Dirty.
I hate to say this, but scrimping and economizing won't do us a damn bit of good. Harm, probably.
It's all because of the python.
Like this: the python does not kill its prey by crushing all its bones. Instead, it wraps itself around the prey firmly and, every time the prey exhales a little it takes up the slack, not allowing the prey to inhale. Very quickly the snake has an unconscious or dead small animal with no broken bones at all.
In 1970, a single earner could support a family of several kids and a wife.
Then the python got busy and today, two earners working probably more than two jobs can not quite support themselves and a much smaller family.
Is the solution to exhale a bit more, hoping to achieve some slack? It hasn't worked so far.
I'll happily buy cheap or in-store brands for lots of things, but I draw the line at lousy beer. If I don't have the scratch to get something decent then it's water for me.
Not number 1 but close enough.
Anonymous | 04.27.08 - 10:00 pm | #
You gotta be trolling but I'll bite... Totals w/o context is just numbers. Try the "per capita" tab. Looks a lot different - huh? The relatively low UK numbers kinda surprised me.
"In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo."
I thought '50s were prosperous times in US. Could this be true?
Only 3 visitors - I believe the least I have ever seen. Good omen for shorts?
I think it's great that cheapness is going to be fashionable. But if I remember correctly from the last few times I was poor, the attractive young ladies never seemed to see it quite that way.
"Pay me now or pay me later" was the Fram Oil Filter from the 70's
Sold in Wal-Mart stores everywhere.
Now all we need is to bring back those commercials with Euell Gibbons telling us that "some parts of a tree are edible."
Yeah, but he was selling Post Grape Nuts, wasn't he? A name brand, tsk-tsk.
Worst.Thing.Ever.Put .in.a.Bottle.... and also an Upstate NY invention.
Won't argue the first, but second part is wrong.
Moxie was created in 1876 by Dr. Augustin Thompson formerly of Union, Maine, while working for the Ayer Drug Company in Lowell, Massachusetts. Accordingly, Moxie stands today as Maine's state beverage. Moxie was first marketed as a patent medicine in Lowell, Massachusetts, under the product name Moxie Nerve Food." [1] From 1928 through 1953 Moxie was bottled at 74 Heath St. in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston, Massachusetts. The building, known as Moxieland,[2] featured an advertisement on the roof along with an arrow pointing in the direction of Logan Airport.[3] Moxie was said to cure ailments ranging from softening of the brain to loss of manhood. [Wikipedia]
Seriously though, rather than buy cheaper foods, why not just buy less? This would have the added benefit of reducing the level of obesity in America. It's win, win, except maybe for the food producers.
The one area that could lead to major lifestyle changes for American families is if the dominant role of "the child" in family life can be downsized. I have no children, so I can stand back and see what is going on. It is ridiculous - everything revolves around driving the child to practices, making sure the child is keeping up with the Jones's child, providing the child with "enrichment" through, e.g. summer whitewater rafting camp, UN camp, spa camp, music camp, whatever, and, in general, making sure the child never "falls behind," in any category, any way.
This means that parents "have to have bigger cars," that parents "have to pay for uniforms," that parents "have to pay for extra coaching," that parents "have to pay for a debutante style prom experience." It's unbelievable. And it's a war that parents can never end, lest their child "falls behind."
Axe any travel sports below high school. Make the kids ride the school bus where possible - yes, even seniors. Tell the kids that, indeed, "we can't afford that." Tell them that the breadwinners are discontinuing the weekly maid service and that the kids will be washing the dishes and mowing the lawns.
This tyranny of the child leads to families relying on takeout and eating out, which leads to obesity. It leads to dead-tired parents. It leads to the "we have to have a third car" mentality.
I don't know how these kids function when they hit age 25 with no idea of how to be poor.
Been living inferior for a long time and like it. let all the keep up with the jones's struggle with all their monthly payments taking eating up their paycheck.
No more refi's bailouts to save the day.
It amazes me that home sellers still start their home prices at the bubble prices. of course they never sell so then they start the slow price drops.
It's funny how they say they are motivated or present all offers and when you do they get all pissed off when you tell them what it is really worth.
Screw them. let them work for a living and save instead of living off of home appreciation magic.
None of this matters - the Recession, which never happened, is over based upon the ever-rising stock market. Soon, all will be well, and we can get back to "normal" where people "buy" houses at 5 to 10 times their annual income using "affordibility products" that allow for toxic loan explosions a few years later.
I really think this will be the first Recession/Depression where the stock market will decouple completely from reality - once the real people leave, all that is left are computerized momentum players.
I can imagine a strange world where people are hoping they can afford enough gas to get to the soup lines, McMansions sit for years, rotting, with fading price signs claiming that 10% off 2005 peak pricing is a "bargain," and companies that have gone out of business still have their stock traded ever higher by unknowing computer programs based on technical "analysis" and not reality. The stocks would have been delisted, but the companies involved in doing that went out of business, too; but since the rating agencies still gave the bankrupt companies an AAA rating, all is well!
Also noticed the liquor stores are stalking up and offering cheaper priced beers.
Bought a 6 pack of 16 ozs of Schaeffer beer. Schaeffer is the one beer to have when your having more than one! $3.49
In the early 1900's pabst and schaeffer were best selling beers.
Also noticed for years that many neighbors did not have much in the way of recyclables (some do not recycle as they should). Most eating fast food slop several times a week.
Many have big pouches and out of shape.
My wife and I eat alot but home cooked and healthy.Same with my kids. And yes every friend has the most up to date gadgets and phones. My oldest girl finally got her first phone.
I laugh at these people when i go on the county records and see their mortgage debt. One example friend bought a house in 1995 for $250K. well just checked out their mtg. $350k primary mtg with a $250K home equity line. yes they did upgrade the house and made it nice, but total overkill and good luck with the elevated property taxes.
1) Recession: People eating out of your trash can.
2) Depression: Eating out of a trash can.
3) Severe Depression: People eating people out of trash cans.
Index-fund investment in CBOT corn, soybeans and wheat has increased 66 percent to the equivalent of 902,105 futures contracts, a record, since January 2006, when the government began collecting the data. Each contract represents 5,000 bushels, about what Niemeyer reaps from every 22 acres of corn planted
or, you can get ALPO 13.2 oz. canned for just 99 cents!
INFO:
Enticing aroma. Purina Alpo Hearty Classics without Gravy with Beef is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for growth and maintenance of dogs. Made in USA.
I thought '50s were prosperous times in US. Could this be true?
BSR | 04.28.08 - 2:38 am | #
The 50's were before the war on poverty. Huge areas of the U.S. were downright 3rd world back then, Appalachia, Miss Delta, Ozarks, black inner cities etc. Much bigger middle class, and fewer plutocrats, but still lots of people in poverty.
"once the real people leave, all that is left are computerized momentum players."
An interesting scenario for a sci-fi story set a century in the future. I wonder what the Dow will be at without the encumbrance of all those pesky humans.
Yal writes:
what does it means "take issues off the market":
A large part of the muni market new issuance is "refunding." It means that the issuers call in older bonds and then issue new bonds at lower interest rates or for better terms. The same amount of debt principal continues but with new bonds, and old bonds are retired.
That's why you always want to look at your yield to call in a muni, not your yield to maturity.
Sue, spot on. I was laughing at the suggestion above that the working poor are wastrels while highly paid professionals are paragons of thrift.
Who is buying all those antimicrobial countertops and lugging them home in SUVs next to $900 strollers? Who is outfitting their fourth bathrooms with "kids' toilets?" Who has been buying homes with 900 s.f. master suites with $8000 soaking tubs to escape from the tyranny of their children?
Out here, my neighbors to the north live in a city that has one of the highest median house price levels, and does have the highest minimum wage of anywhere in the US of A. How these two facts implicate into the attached story may be interesting to the dispassionate observers on this blog. The local bakery is closing, and explanations are being aimed in a version of this week's class war.
The one area that could lead to major lifestyle changes for American families is if the dominant role of "the child" in family life can be downsized. I have no children, so I can stand back and see what is going on.
Sue, I do have kids - two of 'em, a 2-year-old and a newborn - and even I'm in total agreement with your thoughts.
Next to weddings, the single best example of why the zombie American consumer somehow can't find a way to save is the "baby and young child" industry. Throwing thousands of dollars away catering to the little princes' and princesses' every whim is bad enough, but throwing thousands of dollars away on kids under the age of 2 - who don't even have the capacity to know or care! - is nothing short of obscene.
We bought both our kids' furniture sets, their strollers, play items, etc. (everything except the car seats) on Craigslist for about 25-35 cents on the dollar. Everything they wear comes from the 70%, 80%, 90%-off clearance racks at Children's Place and Carter's. Private label diapers from Wal-Mart. And so on.
All those things, and I'm still astonished at how much it costs to raise 'em.
The people who are dropping $2,500 on European cribs, $900 on Bugaboo strollers, and $40 on miniature purple-and-white dresses from Hartstrings that little Alexis is just gonna plaster with various bodily fluids anyway? I can't imagine why - or even how. Simply astonishing. Talk about an industry that'll be crying out for some no-frills competition in a couple of years ...
From the article, CR posted: "Spending data and interviews around the country show that middle- and working-class consumers are starting to switch from name brands to cheaper alternatives, to eat in instead of dining out and to fly at unusual hours to shave dollars off airfares.
...
Wal-Mart Stores reports stronger-than-usual sales of peanut butter and spaghetti, while restaurants like Dominos Pizza and Ruby Tuesday have suffered a falloff in orders, suggesting that many Americans are sticking to low-cost home-cooked meals."
then said: "This is classic behavior in tough economic times."
Does everything here have to have a bearish spin? This is also classic behavior of people who aren't stupid with their money and are trying to eat healthier.
I've been buying generics at the grocery store for over a decade, and quit eating out so much because the choices on the menu aren't as healthy as I could have at home.
Who are you holier-than-thou bloggers and posters that think every American but you is a spoiled, wasteful, short-sighted moron about money?
One example friend bought a house in 1995 for $250K. well just checked out their mtg. $350k primary mtg with a $250K home equity line. yes they did upgrade the house and made it nice, but total overkill and good luck with the elevated property taxes.
So, your hobby is looking up your friends' property records and chuckling over their projected financial problems? I gotta say, I find that more than a little creepy.
Sebastion: Come on - if people were eating out of dumpsters, you'd put a bullish spin on it and claim it is " an increased awareness of the importance of recycling" or some nonsense.
People are poor and getting poorer thanks to the collapsing Ponzi scheme of the current economy. Get used to it.
"Who are you holier-than-thou bloggers and posters that think every American but you is a spoiled, wasteful, short-sighted moron about money?"
Just speaking for myself, a self-confessed moron about money and a charter member of the International Brotherhood of Deferred Gratificationalists, I have only one basic motivation for frequenting these pages: self-defense.
Never had use for debt and would like to keep what I've got for my kids.
I've got three kids myself but totally agree about out-of-control kids spending. Our family is fortunate to live in a neighborhood where things like modest birthday parties are the norm, but it is totally nuts how out of control little things like birthday parties have gotten in the last several years.
Consumers are going to be reluctant to make their kids feel the pinch though. People don't want to "make the kids suffer," even if that "suffering" is for the kids' own good. Hard times come; they will come again when the kid is a grown-up. If your kid watches you gracefully deal with tough economic times, the kid will have that memory bank to draw from when he deals with hard times as a grownup.
Eventually people won't have a choice but to cut back on overspending "for the sake of the kids." But most people will cut back on other areas first if they can, or keep going into debt to support it as long as they can.
it will finally be game over for the economy when consumers looking at an ad start to consider whether they really want to purchase the item or just bonk the model
Troy put a nice scoop of flattery on my plate: "...beautiful analogy..."
I have seen how this was going for a couple of decades now. The more the working people economize, the less discretionary spending is left to them. Heck, read any Dilbert book. Downsizing staff without changing workload, Chapter elevening out from under health and pension obligations, a host of strategies aimed at undercutting salaries and stability and benefits -- if it had happened in a year or two instead of twenty, it would have been seen as an hostile takeover.
If lentils are so damn good, load up each of the CEOs with a 30 lb bag, give him a parachute of solid gold, and drop him on a desert island where he will experience the libertarian ideal -- pay NO taxes, have NO crime, NO rules or laws or bureaucrats, and NO needy people asking for help.
Maxwell House plus Taco Bell for the win.
First in war, first in peace, last in the National League.
Are we discussing the Cleveland Indians again? Or the Cubs? Wait, I've answered my own question.
No surprise, consumers already shifted to inferior governments decades ago.
Actually, it's no big deal to post first on a thread when there's only 23 Visitors Online.
As I recall the BLS decided that substitution of less expensive goods caused the CPI to be overstated. The CPI is going to plunge if people keep this up. "Hey YOU! Hands off the Keystone Light! You're screwing up our data gathering."
Perhaps this explains Krugman's column a couple of weeks ago where he showed a graph demonstrating how the economy has performed under both Democratic and Republican administrations.
I'm just going to guess that the Democratic economy performed better because their policies tend to favor the poor and middle-class who have to spend every dime they make, thereby driving up overall economic activity. But, the Republican economy tends to crush that same demographic because you can't be rich unless you are richer than someone else, which pretty much requires the existence of penniless peons dying in boxes under bridges.
It has been quite a few years since white cans with black letters appeared displaying "BEER" on the can. When I was in high school, it still served it's purpose.
I was supporting the Red Sox but now I'm supporting the Padres?
In my socioeconomic strata the name brands are the cheaper alternatives. What always pisses me off about these kinds of articles is the presumption that the upper middle class and above don't adjust or are less frugal. I am obliged to refresh everyone's memory as to the Midas muffler commercial.
I am obliged to refresh everyone's memory as to the Midas muffler commercial.
Rob Dawg
Was this the "Pay me now, or pay me later" commerical? I don't watch TV, so I'm a bit out of the loop.
BTW let's not forget the original recession diet.
To be served on granite counter tops at dinner parties all around the nation in coming months.
What about Gravy Train?
Add water; makes its own sauce.
Oh yea, like wannabes will skip on "Coach" and buy "Cooch" instead?
Not.Gonna.Happe
Is ketchup a vegetable again?
What about Gravy Train?
Add water; makes its own sauce.
Do they still have that?
I guess the progression is Taco Bell -> Wet Dog Food -> Dry Dog Food
Q: What's invisible and smells like Alpo?
A: Grandma passing gas
cd
I guess the progression is Taco Bell -> Wet Dog Food -> Dry Dog Food
ac |
Then -> Dog.
[Midas muffler commercial.]
Was this the "Pay me now, or pay me later" commerical?
R. Manhammer
No, the "How do you think a man like me got to be a man like me?" commercial. The rich engage in better economic strategies than the poor. They clip coupons for instance and shop in bulk where appropriate. The NYRimes article in classic 4th estate disengagement perpetuates the myths of consumer behavior.
Yes, The Federal Reserve actually claims the substitution method works. It helps to keep core inflation very low.
As prices rise a person can switch from good quality shoes to plastic thongs from Thailand and claim this is evidence of deflation.
CPI food inflation has behaved itself the past few months, even while food commodity prices spiked. Further, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that processed/packaged food producers are raising prices after holding the line for months. So why the tame CPI figures?
I think MLM has it right in his post above: the minions at BLS have been busy substituting Spam for Parma Prosciutto; canned tuna for King Salmon; and Kool-Aid for fresh milk in the CPI calculation.
"See? No inflation!"
"Ketchup; its not just for breakfast anymore."
ac,
"... I guess the progression is Taco Bell -> Wet Dog Food -> Dry Dog Food ..."
And here is the money paragraph in the NY Times article:
It hasnt gotten to human food mixed with pet food yet, he said, but it is certainly headed in that direction.
Holly Levitsky, a 56-year-old supermarket cashier in Cleveland, buys a brand of steak sauce called Briargate for 85 cents and surreptitiously pours it into an A1 steak sauce bottle she keeps at home.
My husband cant even tell the difference, she said.
See this is how it starts.
Next they you know the wife is pouring Alpo into empty cans of Dinty Moore beef stew.
Now all we need is to bring back those commercials with Euell Gibbons telling us that "some parts of a tree are edible."
I think TV Land may have some possibilities for cashing in on this new nostalgia.
cd
If the elites start buying "Green Poupon" the proles are already dead.
So why the tame CPI figures?
David Pearson
You mean the "core" CPI where we always exclude the volatile food and energy data?
I'm reasonably sure that a can of Alpo costs as much as a can of Dinty Moore. Last I heard that was an urban legend.
As prices rise a person can switch from good quality shoes to plastic thongs from Thailand and claim this is evidence of deflation.
No need...we have Crox...errr, or do we? Have they disappeared completely beneath the waves yet?
cd
When did Corona Light become a "higher-price import"?
"As prices rise a person can switch from good quality shoes to plastic thongs from Thailand and claim this is evidence of deflation."
Then they can switch to plastic bags and claim they're going green too...
No need...we have Crox...errr, or do we? Have they disappeared completely beneath the waves yet?
Circling the Drain
I sure hope not! I love mine!
When did Corona Light become a "higher-price import"?
I think they're comparing it to that vodka which gets dyed blue and illegaly imported as windshield wiper fluid.
Medicine has made great advances over the last 50 years.
Robotics have made incredible advances in the last 10 years.
Artificial Intelligence is sure to make mind boggling advances in the years ahead.
Genetics.....wow...we all know.
The Federal Reserve and government is still behind the 8 ball.
Used to be there were cheap local brnads of beer. Now the little brands are the expensive ones. It would be nice to get some cheap local stuff back.
Just please, for the love of all that is decent, no Utica Club!
The worst thing ever put in cans.
This is what economists refer to as Giffen goods
I'm seeing a ton of downgrading at work. A group of us 'coffee snobs' had to form our own club as the bulk have downgraded below what I want to drink.
More of us are carpooling (including myself) despite our odd and 'flexible' hours.
But I agree with Rob Dawg, the true 'upper middle class' have being doing this behaviour anyway. We haven't yet bought an HDTV. In fact, we're far enough behind the curve a relative is giving up their 37" LCD to make room for their upgrade. My wife and I buy food in bulk (when discounted) and freeze the surplus.
Has anyone else noted that prime cuts of beef often go on super sale? To the point its worth feezing six to eight pounds. We've always eaten out less than the sheeple (and eaten better). Anyone else notice that veggie quality at Costco is dropping?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Manhammer- "I'm reasonably sure that a can of Alpo costs as much as a can of Dinty Moore. Last I heard that was an urban legend."
In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
My sister living near Detroit says she knows a recession is coming when the premium goods (complete opposite of inferior goods) goes massively on sale. For example - two years ago I was out at her house and she was grilling a whole tenderloin (the cut filet mignon comes from)... she said (paraphrased):
"Can you believe it, my grocery has them on sale for $6 a pound... crappy hamburger sells for $3 a pound... yet the butcher says they can't sell the tenderloins 'cause no one has the extra money, they all buy crappy hamburger instead and he gives the filet away... the auto plants must be laying off again."
She doesn't even need to read th ebiz section... cheap filet means laid off auto workers.
So she fills her freezer during recessions - haven't talked to her lately but my guess is its filling now even at these 'inflated' prices.
Even at Goldman Sachs, Breguet is being substituted for Patek Philippe.
I invested in a hogs and cattle commodity etf a while back and have been watching the price fall relentlessly. However, looking at the chart, the price over the last 2 weeks certainly looks like it is starting to quietly ecover after the long fall. On that basis I think meat is sooon going to start getting significantly more expensive.
How about some laughs:
Part 1: YouTube - Real financial heros part 1 of 3
Part 2: YouTube - Real financial heros part 2 of 3
Part 3: YouTube - Real financial heros part 3 of 3
CR, following the logic of the post, if Sebastian starts his own blog now hew could steal half your traffic . . . look out!
Oh wait, this blog is free. Whew!
"Pay me now or pay me later" was the Fram Oil Filter from the 70's - they were way ahead of their time in anticipating the pay option ARM!
A friend of mine who took a marketing class remarked that middle-class folks tend to go by brand rather than value, and the upper-class consumer tends to do the reverse.
However, with financial strains, middle-class folks begin to realize the virtue of choosing value over brand, something that may last for a while.............
Seriously, there's something wrong with our perception of good nutrition when a freshly prepared home cooked spaghetti dinner is considered an "inferior good" to a high fat, high calorie meal from Domino's or Ruby Tuesday's that is made from the cheapest bulk ingredients.
BTW I seriously stopped trying to order from Dominos about a year ago. They just wouldn't answer the phone anymore.
Where I am it's really hard to get serivce at fast food restaurants (even Taco Bell).
Maybe time to try again?
On the subject of pet foods, what gives with the fancy pet supermarkets - petsmart, petco... People wander around buying up expensive crap for their pets. Talk about discretionary.
When I deliver an adoring look towards my dog (the one that has never set foot inside a vet's office), it'll be because I am picturing what it'll look like with an apple in its mouth this Christmas.
Maybe people are also finally realizing that brand names don't mean shit these days, especially after Wal-Mart got done diluting them by forcing some brands to mass produce garbage that Wal-Mart could sell for knocked-down prices.
Rubbermaid, Black and Decker, RCA are just a few.
Didn't the no-name product explosion begin with the 70's bust?
A little hazy here, too young to remember.
Most of the cheap no-name stuff where I shop has morphed into "premium" store brand items and is decent quality.
The remaining no-name stuff is by and large, awful. Still far too expensive compared to eating real food.
Yesterday I was in Costco and the checkout person told me that "everything" in Costco has gone up a lot in price. By "everything" I think he actually meant food because he called off some increases in food prices. But I'm not sure. The place seemed lightly attended for a weekend. Mind you this Costco is in a very affluent neighborhood in Northern California.
You can still get an all-beef kosher hot dog + drink for $1.50 + tax. Still a real bargain.
On the subject of pet foods, what gives with the fancy pet supermarkets - petsmart, petco... People wander around buying up expensive crap for their pets. Talk about discretionary.
I think stores like that along with Starbucks may be symptomatic of the US bubble-driven superconsumer.
Will be interesting to see if they make it through the next decade.
I believe that the demographic who shops at Petsmart would forego their own meals before they stop shopping there. Besides they have no kids to waste their money on.
I almost never buy anything prepared, and make everything myself. And I clip coupons too, and if it's not on sale I don't buy it. I even got a little device that carbonates water because I was sick of paying over a buck for water with some bubbles in it.
I learned that grocery shopping in the one area that you can really save a ton of money in if you do it right. And it's easy to do it wrong. And once you are used to making things, it honestly doesn't take that long and isn't that involved.
And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food. Tuna is tuna, pasta is pasts, sugar is sugar. If it's shoes you're talking about, then sure, but flour? And value doesn't always mean cheapest either.
We have a long way to go before substitution of inferior foods gets us to the standard of living enjoyed by our grandparents.
I think of the stories my mother told of taking a thermos of water flavored with soy sauce to school. One piece of fruit for a snack. Sneaking into a neighbors yard to steal fruit. Or my great-grandfather having eggs for breakfast and boiling his coffee in a pot with the egg shells in it to keep the grounds from floating up when he poured it.
When people start eating the rats instead of the squirrels, trouble is brewing.
I took my family of 5 to Steak and Shake today as a treat. I paid 45 dollars. The fries were cold the service was lousy. I dont think I will be back.
mp-
Beer... there is no substitute... except for cheaper beer.
On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
Man my dog likes beer too, but the spoiled mutt will only drink from a bottle. ;^) no really he can't get his mouth around a can, but loves long necks. Nothing sadder than a dog with a hang-over.
Must have happened to conjure too... after eating some salesman hopped up on "the bad stuff"?
You are better off milking the rats than eating them as they will provide more calories over a lifetime.
w,
And using bark for toilet paper was luxurious until the trees were gone. Then, they used their youngest sibling's head. The old days were rough, especially if you were the youngest.
Anyone know of a publicly traded veterinarian - not commercial services? That's a sure short in a severe downturn.
In college my brother cooked up a batch of alpo chili and we all at it. It was fine. In fact, I would describe it as better then Dinty Moore beef stew.
mp: In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo.
It may be that the Alpo was actually an input product.
Poodles on rice are some good eatin'.
cd
Would it be unfair to point out that it's no longer 1959 and that Alpo is likely made in China and therefore unfit even for dogs?
ipodius | 04.27.08 - 7:25 pm |
As a single guy I go outta my way to reduce food costs. I have nobody to impress so I eat to survive. My record? Approx 60 cents a day. Depending on how good the garden is the end of summer/fall I am going to try for even less.
And the people I work with wonder how I can afford a huge road trip in the Cobra starting Tuesday...
Chris
This shift has been going on quietly for a very long time -- 10 years or more I would guess. Of course I am in central Canada, so your mileage may vary.
A couple of indicators
--growth of the dollar stores offering new items very cheap
--growth of thrift shops, both commercial and charity based
But more important than their existence, is the movement of the middle class into the customer base of these stores. And these stores, along with Wal-Mart, have undercut the more midrange stores. Now we come to the crunch and people who saw the cheapie stores as one option among many, will move to them nearly exclusively.
Noni
Keebler Fudge Shoppe sales down 12%... no wonder it's on sale AND I've got coupons for it every time I go to the store!
Anyone else notice that veggie quality at Costco is dropping?
Yes. I attribute it to three/four things. Costco has become popular for prepared veggies straining supply. Transport costs are way up for perishables probably extending ship times. Suppliers get more "efficient" as they integrate into the Costco system meaning they manage to get more past the QC inspections. Growers are doing a little substituting of their own as more cash crops are likely to marginalize the land used for bulk consumable crops like veggies.
Got eggs?
Chris! Wow, .60! I'm impressed. I can do a day for about $8 i figure. I'm single too, but when I think back on what we ate as kids, I know my parents were very smart shoppers and they didn't spend much. And to be honest, my mom cuts out coupons she knows i'll use and gives them to me once a week
We also didn't wear 200 jeans or have 100 dollar sneakers either. and imagine the horror of sharing a room with your brother! Or sharing a bathroom. we were so deprived LOL
Lower Upper Class here. So it's out with the Mark Rothko, in with the Jean-Michel Basquait, and no Maybach for the mistress.
...but the really sad news is it's over for the "We're all elites now" meme I've been promoting.
Rob Dawg,
Thanks for answering. So in effect, Costco's veggie quality is the end result of:
1. A mature market (they've figured out how to game QA).
2. Demand for buying in bulk (Costco has no choice but to accept marginal product.)
The consumer is desperate and stretched. To think... I do want people to pay their mortgages.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Keystone Light? Man thats a really deep recession!
Fun at last! I've loved peanut butter all my 65 yr, had to make it from peanuts in Switzerland for 2 yr, I eat a pound in 6 days, buy a 6 mo supply at a time -- I could and did stop working at 48 yr.
Keystone Light? Man thats a really deep recession!
No way, that's high end stuff. When I was in college we drink this crap called Red, White and Blue. It was like 3.95 a case. That's serious recession drinking. Oh and something we fondly called "The Green Death" Haffenreffer I do believe. They had puzzles on the caps.
Let me just say that in my limited experience the growers who do not work with CostCo/Walmart are the one's who work with chains like Trader Joes and Tesco. Either you grow to Costco standards (price>quality) or you don't.
Here's my prediction for a few years from now (in reverse...)
Monty Python's Flying Circus - "Four Yorkshiremen"
YouTube - Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen
and we'll be drinking cheap American beer in Canada
Comments from the trenches..
Tea bags from the dollar store (100/$1) are darn good if you treat them right.
One bent n dent outlet I found, has huge quantities of fancy chocolate bars (like Scharffen Berger, and the Cacao Reserve's from Hershey's). Priced at 1/4-1/3 of retail. Why ? Because the stuff didn't sell at full retail and went out of date. So far all of them seem fine by my standards.
Look forward to the fancy chocolate bar sections to shrink shelf space if this keeps up.
Just had the wife start stocking up on chicken, turkey, and beef. She scored the filet mignon at COSTCO today for $9.49/lb. Once the high priced grains work their way through the food chain, I look for $17+ on the filet. Makes more money in the freezer than in a CD.
I'd give up Lipton tea and Folgers coffee, heck even Keebler cookies, to get out of this hell hole apartment and into a house!
RayOnTheFarm | 04.27.08 - 8:10 pm | #
You wouldn't believe the people I know who would never step into a scratch and dent store...Great way to save a buck !!
ipodius | 04.27.08 - 7:57 pm | #
Beans,rice and a kick ass garden when I lived up north. The best way to save is like everybody says...Buy in bulk and store. I bought a package sealer at Sams Club and divide my stuff up for storage. Also,I grew up on a farm so I am a current member of the Farm Bureau. They run some kick ass sales for bulk food items. The current killer offer is like 2.00/lb Angus beef hamburgers !!! Ways to save are out there,people just have to be willing to look...
Chris
Ray - chocolate is only normal and elastic for half the population... good luck getting mt better half to give it up before wine (or food)
barely,
Here's your veterinary short - ticker WOOF (I'll leave it to the group to add the puns about what kind of an investment this might be.) It seems to have everything but cosmetic surgery!
WOOF: Profile for VCA Antech, Inc. - Yahoo! Finance
VCA Antech, Inc. operates as an animal healthcare services company in the United States. The company offers veterinary services and diagnostic testing to support veterinary care; and markets diagnostic imaging equipment, and other medical technology products and related services to the veterinary market.
It operates in three segments: Laboratory, Animal Hospital, and Medical Technology.
The Laboratory segment operates a network of veterinary diagnostic laboratories that provide testing and consulting services used by veterinarians in the detection, diagnosis, evaluation, monitoring, treatment, and prevention of diseases and other conditions affecting animals.
The Animal Hospitals segment operates freestanding and full-service animal hospitals, which offers a range of general medical and surgical services for companion animals. It also offers specialized treatments, including advanced diagnostic services, internal medicine, oncology, ophthalmology, dermatology, and cardiology, as well as provides pharmaceutical products. In addition, this segment performs pet wellness programs, including health examinations, diagnostic testing, routine vaccinations, spaying, neutering, and dental care
How about some laughs.
CANNIBAL RESTAURANT
A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant operated by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu...
Broiled Missionary: $10.00
Fried Explorer: $15.00
Grilled Republican: $20.00
Baked Democrat: $100.00
The cannibal called the waiter over and asked, "Why such a price difference for the Democrat?"
The waiter replied, "The cook says, if you've ever tried to clean one, they're so full of shit it takes all morning."
Next they you know the wife is pouring Alpo into empty cans of Dinty Moore beef stew.
I thought Alpo poured Dinty Moore beef stew into empty cans.
o lines at Costco late in the afternoon yesterday, Saturday, in Roseville, CA. Very strange.
Rob Dawg writes:
Anyone else notice that veggie quality at Costco is dropping?
Yes, and when I went to buy toilet paper with my $2 coupon the price had already gone up $2.
Weirdly, my response is to buy less cheaper stuff and more of the better stuff (except perhaps for highly perishable food) on the theory that it lasts longer. I would rather eat one good meal a day than three crappy ones. I buy one or two "good" pairs of shoes in a year rather than a bunch of cheap ones. But then I'm a seventies jeans and t-shirt kid, so we're well prepared for economic downturns. The hair gets longer with fewer haircuts (actually I do it myself, as well as the color), we drive the old cars longer (hey, it's paid for), etc.
But we're the low end of rich, with barely any debt. So recessions actually become a time when the quality of the goods we buy tends to get better as more stuff goes on sale.
I've traded grain futures on and off for many years. Right now what sticks in my mind is that it takes about seven lbs of grain to put one lb. of meat on a steer, 5 lbs to add one lb of meat on a pig and about 2 1/2 lbs of corn to put one on a chicken and less than 2 lbs of grain to add one lb of meat on a fish.
The inferior good here can produce a lot more meat but "cheaper" meat. Also at some point, if we cut back on ethanol production, there will be a lot more feed grain around.
Second,it seems every spring a crop is threatened by a "new" disease. This year it's U99. Wheat annually gets an afflotoxin scare and soybeans get a rust scare or "sudden death syndrome" scare, just to name a few. Between the farmers and the pesticide folks the problem in most cases turns out to be limited in scope.
Yep, springtime begins the "fear and greed season"!
Just had a rabbit hop across the front yard and there weren't any gun shots, when the bullets start flying I'll let you know. Survived college in the 70's on a wild rabbit, trout line catfish, poached deer, and gigged frog legs from a private pond diet. Money was for beer and dope. Party!
You are better off milking the rats than eating them as they will provide more calories over a lifetime.
Using some strawberries and banannas it's possible to make an exceptional milkshake in this manner.
Artificial Intelligence is sure to make mind boggling advances in the years ahead.
Heh. Those of us actually in the computer science field have been hearing that for fifty, count 'em fifty, years now. AI is the snake oil of the computer science world.
Makes for great Time magazine articles though...
Cheers,
prat
You'll know that we've reached rock bottom when people are drinking Gloden Anniversary . . . the worst beer I've ever had.
Heineken, VCorona, Amstel are only "premium" beers because they've been marketed to an insane degree. There is no difference to me bewteen one of those and a shitty domestic pilsner type beer (Bud, Miller, Natural Light, etc..
Now, when people are eschewing Sierra Nevada for a Keystone, that's a sad sad day.
Had a post fired up and haloscan zapped it saying "duplicate post"..
Whatever. The Piels longnecks at $4.99/case with the returns were a college staple, along with Meisterchow er MeisterBrau, Genesee Creme Ale, and PBR's.
The best value was to be found in Strohs since they came 30 to a case...
"5 lbs to add one lb of meat on a pig"
trader walt | 04.27.08 - 8:41 pm | #
I was thinking that the latest and greatest according to my uncle was about 3-1 for hogs. I do know he just spent 14k for a single sow and over 25k for a boar. Supposedly some of the best engineered available right now. 10k farrow to finish currently...
With huge herds and rfid its getting pretty easy to only breed the absolute best producers.
Chris
I got cat food in my mouth once and it was horrible, truly horrible.
True weird history. Lewis and Clarke got to the west coast finally & saw all the Indians, excuse me, native americans? indogines? whatever, eating salmon, as it was salmon run season. The were graciously offered some and said, no thanks, we'll buy some dogs from you and eat them. And so it was.
My peach tree is full of teeny tiny peaches. Learned from Vanna White after Wheel patter, that you are supposed to cull the peaches, so next year I guess I'll have a good crop.
I wish the pecan trees would finally produce something. The turnips will be ready next week and the green beans the week or 2 after that. And I have the citrus still, but not for much longer.
To me the inferior good is the Dominos or Taco Bell. Nobody even knows what good food is supposed to taste like. I am willing to pay a lot of money for really good food--like homemade butter from the health food store.
Often quality isn't really that much more expensive--as y'all have pointed out.
The great cycle of life has turned once again in the South, vader has tomatoes starting.
Spring time in Dixie
I always figured this board was populated by a bunch of cheap bastards. Makes me feel right at home.
I guess if some of the finer brands of beer drop in price then there will be some good out of all this turmoil after all. I'm ready to pounce.
Harris, its not the end of the world (just the end of an era) if you can't wear a $37k watch....I'll work up a bid for your PatekP and give you first dibs if I need to unload it....last thing, this unwind is going to be so ugly that the masters of the universe would be well-advised to familiarize themselves with the Raymond Weil line....
Chris, thanks for the "high tech" update!
Walt
Nobody even knows what good food is supposed to taste like.
You are too right. Peoples' standards when it comes to the quality of the food they eat in taste and texture are terrible. Most people seem to equate amount of food in a serving with quality.
we're having a crappy spring up here so planting will be late. My biggest problem is being able to eat all of what I produce in the garden. Canning jars are really hard to find and expensive nowadays. What do you all use for preserving produce.
I wish the article were true in my case. I own a retailer that specializes in certain types of "inferior" goods and had assumed business might be buoyed by the recession. In fact, business has slid slight, consistent with overal declines in retailing seen in other industries. I'm not sure what that means, except that it would appear that people may simply be choosing to purchase less of everything as they tighten their belts--rather than shifting to inferior goods. Or it could be that my firm is bad at marketing and missing out on an opportunity...but if I knew how to do otherwise, I'd be suggesting it!
The greatest sales job of all time has been going on for 30 years. It was an even better sales campaign than convincing Americans to overpay for their homes, which only went on for maybe 10-15 years.
It was convincing Americans (and then people all over the world) to pay too much money to own stocks.
This sales job has involved coordinated activity by huge brokerage firms and their armies of brokers, enormous marketing by mutual funds, vast amounts of media hype, and buy-ins from big institutional investors.
When the sales job fell apart in 2000-02 and stocks came down to reasonable value, the campaign was pumped up again by: 1) insurance companies aiming their vast armies of sales people at "variable" products: 2) the Fed and PPT and their efforts to prop up the market by injeting leverage and liquidity; and 3) the whole hedge fund wave, which propped up the crumbling stock sales campaign in its last years.
It's not that stocks aren't worth anything. But they are over-valued by around 30-60% on average.
For a quality company that has real sustainable earnings of 10% or so per year and pays a dividend of 3-4% per year, you should be willing to pay a trailing P/E ratio of about 10-15.
The problem is that so few companies fit the description. Investors were duped into paying twice that P/E for companies that pay little or no dividends, that artificially inflated earnings using Ponzi-like tricks, and have no ability to sustain close to the same earnings growth rate in a slower U.S. economy.
Everybody is asking how long the recession will last. The more important question is: What will real U.S. GDP and nominal earnings growth average over the next decade. I think the answers are 1-2% and 4-6%.
In both cases, that's between half and two-thirds what it has been in the past.
The U.S. stock market had the right valuation in 2002. Everything since then has been a pumped-up illusion.
So, over the next 12-24 months, the market will adjust back to about where it was in 2002. At that point, stocks will be back toward fair value, and stock market growth can continue, although at a slower pace than in the past, maybe 5-7% long-term, a bit above earnings growth.
The irony in recent news is how many financial companies have been cutting dividends. In the future, investors will only be willing to pay P/Es above 10-15 for those companies that do pay attractive dividends. Without dividends, you are always hoping for a greater fool to buy6 your stocks. The sneakiest part of the 30-year sales con job was to convince stock market investors that dividends don't matter.
The great 30-year stock sales campaign is over. Americans have already lost a lot of faith in the stock market, and at the end of this bear market they will have huge resentment toward stocks and everybody who hyped them too much.
Investors will no longer believe the hype and will focus on what companies are really worth, which is what I said at the top of this post. Microsoft is worth 10-15 times its earnings, especially if it keeps increasing its dividend.
A lot of lesser companies aren't worth P/Es more than 10, and their earnings will grow a lot slower in the future than in the past.
Why am I confident this will happen? Because U.S. earnings are so weak, and the conditions for earnings going forward in the months ahead are terrible. Also, because the 30-year sales con is stretched so thin.
Keystone light: beer in a bottle that tastes like beer in a can, eh?
And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food.
If the corn has pieces of cob stuck to it and there are stems in the green beans, it is definitely not "brand." I've learned which generics are OK and which ones are awful.
I learned from my mother how to get about 16 person-meals from one roasting chicken. No worries here.
wally writes:
I always figured this board was populated by a bunch of cheap bastards. Makes me feel right at home.
I got married in an outfit I bought at the goodwill. Hawaiian shirt and khaki shorts. Total cost: $5.
I think that even tops Chris's .60 cent food budget.
"It's not that stocks aren't worth anything."
Apparently your not an insider or in upper management:-)
yes, they are switching to more unprepared and nonpackaged healthy food, such as more fruits and veggies, and less fat-ladden meats and diary products.
Thrift store inflation: I hit the stores often to find bikes to rebuild. Some to flip, some to donate, some to scavenge for quality period parts .Suntour Superbe, anyone? Bikes that formerly sold for $9.99 to $19.99 are pushing $40.
Canning jars are really hard to find and expensive nowadays. What do you all use for preserving produce.
Get a dehydrator. Picked one up on craigslist for $10 on the advice of my local farmer. I ate cherry tomatoes like candy all last winter.
Gary, my man:
Just opened up a bottle of Yuengling and thinking of the college days when we went for Mickey Malt in those fabulous wide-mouth bottles.
Must've been so cheap because of the money they saved on the glass bottle.
Nope. Cause I buy all my veggies at the Farmer's Market or Asian Groceries.
"leftthread writes:
Thrift store inflation: I hit the stores often to find bikes to rebuild. Some to flip, some to donate, some to scavenge for quality period parts .Suntour Superbe, anyone? Bikes that formerly sold for $9.99 to $19.99 are pushing $40."
Heh. I have a friend that does the same, and he has the same complaint. The illegal workers in his area are buying thrift shop bikes for cheap transportation to work. This is in California.
I see the same thing in my town. Other day around 8:30 in the evening, two older Latinos on bikes in uniform from a lumberyard four miles away, plugging by on bikes. They looked tired.
Ah Mickey's. One of my fraternity brothers had that hornet tattooed on his ankle. I'm sure there's some level of regret about that!
Yuengling is a damn fine beer for the price. I'll usually pick some up if we're having guests over.
I generally buy store brands since I figured out that most of them are made in the same plants as "name brand" goods. So much production is contracted out these days. I generally can't tell the difference.
I'd never try to eat for sixty cents a day, but you can eat pretty well for cheap if you stick with bulk food and know how to spice it. Check out my latest blog entry on the New Po' Food.
I got married in an outfit I bought at the goodwill. Hawaiian shirt and khaki shorts. Total cost: $5.
And she married you anyway? Oh man. Even on this blog, that takes the cake.
I got married in an outfit I bought at the goodwill. Hawaiian shirt and khaki shorts. Total cost: $5.
I think that even tops Chris's .60 cent food budget.
Gary | 04.27.08 - 9:25 pm | #
Yep,got me beat!! But I will say,working as a mechanic my work uniforms are provided free of charge. How much do you think I spend a year on clothing?? Yes I shop at the local Goodwills. Why? Christ,there is so much nice stuff from the older crowd here in Florida it is really tough not to.
BTW...Good choice in shirts and shorts(All I wear)!!!
Chris
I tend to by the more expensive cuts when they go on sale as they tend to have better meat and less fat. I tend to run to the BOGO sales and stock the freezer. In the proces of buying a small freezer unit for the home for more space as I expect that I might need more freezer space with the garden and other things. As far as inferior goods, I just remember the earlier years of my dad supporting us kids with cut buddy goods. I learned to really hate some of the black label cans and learned how to cook really cheaply with good food. This will be an interesting time for all. Cheers.
I think a lot of folks will downshift into rice and beans before they downgrade their dog's food.
And I'm one of them. Got a second-hand copy of Madhur Jaffrey's cookbook so I can figure out how to cook vegan stuff that doesn't taste like a school lunch.
My dog saves me plenty...skip the shrink and the anti-depressants, skip the gym membership, skip the afterwork drinks and schmooze at the dog run.
If things get desperate, I'll let her off the leash and let her take down the squirrels.
True love, Outsider, true love.
Alcoholic liver disease (most recent) by country
Not number 1 but close enough.
I'd never try to eat for sixty cents a day, but you can eat pretty well for cheap if you stick with bulk food and know how to spice it. Check out my latest blog entry on the New Po' Food.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 04.27.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Bob,
Just remember...Very,very large and diverse garden.
But frankly I was kinda sick of beans and rice for a while after...
Chris
Bob, I'm going to try your salad this week. Sounds delicious.
If you all are familiar with Annie Hill's classic, Voyaging on a Small Income (a wealth of thrift-wisdom in itself), you've probably read the excerpt of Weston Martyr's The 200£ Millionaire. A body can be content as a king on very little. We've gotten out of touch with simple pleasures in this country.
"But frankly I was kinda sick of beans and rice for a while after..."
Oh, have I been there. But I've found/made up some decent recipes lately that help.
Chris, we absolutely love the goodwill. We also give all of our old stuff to the local Salvation Army.
We always try to hit the goodwill when we're traveling. My wedding outfit was bought in Palos Verdes, CA. We were just out there again a few weeks ago visiting family and my wife picked up a couple of fantastic summer shirts for me. Sadly, inflation has struck the goodwill - prices were up about 100% from three years ago . . . but $4 for a great shirt is still a steal.
RE "Yuengling is a damn fine beer for the price"
Anybody know if they us GMO grains?
(i.e. genetically modified)
I still eat out quite a bit; the portions are so large I can usually eat half and bring half home for dinner.
I have a feeling the practive of shifting profit margins to drinks is going to bite the restaurant biz in the ass. Two bucks for a 2 cents worth of soda? Six bucks for a beer/12 dollars for the entree.
Still, the guy surviving on 60 cents a day, that's an accomplishment, but I hope you're popping a vitamin with that regimen. Food is cheap, dr. visits - not so much.
Anonymous | 04.27.08 - 10:06 pm | #
Just a FYI...My garden had...
Sweet Corn/8 rows/planted 1 week apart
Cucumbers
Squash
Tomatoes
Green Beans
Carrots
Onions
Lettuce
Sweet Peppers/3 kinds
Honeydew Melons
Spinach
Zucchini
Couple of herbs
Total garden was about .25/acre for 1 person. I gave a shitton of food away at work.
Chris
I believe that the demographic who shops at Petsmart would forego their own meals before they stop shopping there. Besides they have no kids to waste their money on.
Pretty much. One of my cats is prone to kidney stones, so he eats pretty expensive food. The others are fine with the cheap stuff. I do get expensive litter. It is better than the cheap stuff, and you don't want to start changing litter brands willy nilly. Bad, bad idea.
Given that they helped me through serious depression, I'll spend what it takes.
Meisterbrau is not beer, it is embalming fluid.
Anyone know of a low sodium recipe for red beans and rice?
ac, you say Maxwell House; I say Chock Full o' Nuts, Postum, and chicory.
Coffee - Chock full o'Nuts
Postum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orleans Coffee Exchange - 100% Pure Chicory
"One of my cats is prone to kidney stones, so he eats pretty expensive food."
CATS - FRIEND OR FOOD?
CATS - FRIEND OR FOOD
Here kitty-kitty-kitty
From anonymous' link:
"Tales of cat-eating are nothing new"
Uh . . . between that and anonymous 10:06, I'm detecting a pattern.
But seriously folks . . .
OT -- about time the dummies in the Far East woke up to the fact that their hard-earned money is going down the toilet when it is 'invested' in our T-paper:
Dollar Slide Drives Budget as Japan Shuns Treasuries (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
"...The Japanese (the largest holder of our T-paper), who own $586.6 billion, or 12 percent of U.S. government debt, had their worst quarter in Treasuries this decade, losing 7 percent in the first three months of the year..."
Food 4 Less 4 life.
Inferior goods? Why would the Great America need anything whatsoever inferior? Puuuleeease! US has great manufacturing, services are so well priced and necessary. Technology is so undersaturated. Sebastian is my hero, BTW. Housing is just a manifestation of the wealth created in other market sectors. People don't overspend, not in the US! Credit cards are used only for convenience and monthly balances are predominantly paid at month end. Americans are SO financially saavy, that to presume they didn't see overlending, oversecuritization, overconsumption coming, is ridiculous. America is still the world's growth machine.....Oh! excuse me, China and Asia-general is boycotting our bonds and corporate borrowing? NEVER MIND.
WE ARE SO TOTALLY SCREWED! LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF YOU, 1 OF EVERY 3 PEOPLE WILL BE EATEN BY THEIR NEIGHBORS IN THE NEXT 16 MONTHS. YUM-YUM. I LIKE MINE WITH TENNESSEE BOURBON BARBECUE SAUCE.
OT:
Had dinner last night with a local real estate agent (Santa Cruz, CA). Times are tough; she just sold a home, but it was 1) a mobile home, and 2) her first sale since last August. She expects prices to drop for another year. I believe longer, but it's interesting to see this level of reality from an agent. But then she's something of a veteran.
She also talked about a young part-timer in her office who bought a house with a no-down, no-doc loan, immediately took out a second to buy a car and furniture, and is living high for now. Of course the payments are due to reset.
I said he sounded like a con man, but she said, "No, he's just a goofy kid."
Goofy kid deserves to get his knuckles rapped, but it just goes to show: they've been handing out mortgages to anybody to keep the boom going. The hangover's going to be large and long for all of us.
Butternut dyed homespun clothes. rotisserie chipmunk, squirrel, possum. Noodlin' for catfish. Victory gardens. Pliers 'stead o' dentists. Copious alkihol fer complaints stead o' dokters. Grain boiled cereal fur breakfast. Critter kilt slabbed out hunks broilt fer dinner. 2 squares -- you wants 3? whatchu a Rockerfeller? Get usta sukin' it up lazy, wafer boned whitey americaner! Youse ain't seen nothin' yet -- as ter' suffrin'. If you can't grow your own food, have shelter paid for, clothes in good supply or able-to-be-made, personal security. Bye-bye. Wave to me as you are twirlin' on the spit! Me likes soft dumb Amerikaner flesh well cooked!
Well, as a bitter renter, I like the idea that housing is getting less expensive (slowly) and as a locovore/SLOE food person it delights me that food is getting more expensive. Perhaps this will cause people to think more about what they're buying. Food has been outlandishly under-priced for the past 10-15 years or so, with extraordinary unintended consequences (see:Pollan: Botany of Desire, In Defense of Food, Omnivore's Dilemma, etc)
BTW< I see no evidence of food inflation out here in the Bay Area for people that eat well. Good produce costs a lot, but it doesn't cost more this year then last. Likewise, sustainably raised meat doesn't seem to be more expensive either. Parm Reg is still $22/lb for the good wheels. Looks normal to me. Local strawberries are in, local toms are in, it's supposed to be a good cherry season... life is good - now if only rents and house prices would drop - and not just volume.
And I defy anyone to notice the difference between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food. Tuna is tuna, pasta is pasts, sugar is sugar.
In the cheese factory, it is packaging. Only the packaging.
Yup. Just loaded up today on "store brand" canned beans.
Big step down from my normal "fancy pants" organic brand, but gawd were they cheap.
Downpuppy-
I never heard of "Utica Club" but "Moxie" was a big favorite in my extended family.
Worst.Thing.Ever.Put .in.a.Bottle.... and also an Upstate NY invention.
The U.S. stock market had the right valuation in 2002. Everything since then has been a pumped-up illusion.
I'm too lazy, so can someone figure out the 2002 S&P adjusted for inflation to 2008?
Ipodius said
"And I defy anyone to notice the differnece between the less expensive item and the "brand" one in food. Tuna is tuna, pasta is pasts, sugar is sugar. If it's shoes you're talking about, then sure, but flour? And value doesn't always mean cheapest either."
Your first example, tuna, is sooooo pathetic. I know, because my dad is a commercial fisherman and I can all of my own tuna myself. My step-mom also has it canned commercially and sold at some grocery stores and fish markets throughout the state. HUGE difference between this and the cheap crap.
Pasta-
Most of the stuff at my local grocery is of similar quality, except for the really expensive stuff, and that is hardly worth the premium. Good pasta is homemade. I love to mix in some fresh spinach for even better flavor.
Sugar-
There is certainly a difference between sugar, however it usually makes no difference when baking. Good sugar is cane sugar, the "bad" sugar is beet sugar. The biggest difference is that the beet sugar stinks. Seriously, smell the difference between C&H and the off brand.
When it comes to flour, it pretty much all sucks(taste and nutrition) compared to freshly milled...
One example that I really notice, is the differing quality of canned black beens. S&W always seem to have good flavor and are correctly cooked. Others, even the local "organic", sometimes are of much lower quality.
I do agree however that occasionally the cheaper brand is better, but that is usually more of an exception than a rule. Store brand cheeses generally suck.
I love my inferior goods, from clothes to housewares to apartment.
If everything I own were to disappear tomorrow I wouldn't care too much, and that's a very liberating feeling.
Ok, I'm not going to compete on 'cheapness' here, since we're already sounding like that Monty Python routine "Oooh, we would have LOVED to live in a box by the side of a road...."
Here are two inflation calculators... quick and dirty. The first, calculates using only the CPI as a deflator. In the second, the NASA one, gives you several different ways to measure inflation, and calculate its effects. Cool. Quick. Dirty.
But we all have our faults.
The Inflation Calculator
Inflation Calculators
I hate to say this, but scrimping and economizing won't do us a damn bit of good. Harm, probably.
It's all because of the python.
Like this: the python does not kill its prey by crushing all its bones. Instead, it wraps itself around the prey firmly and, every time the prey exhales a little it takes up the slack, not allowing the prey to inhale. Very quickly the snake has an unconscious or dead small animal with no broken bones at all.
In 1970, a single earner could support a family of several kids and a wife.
Then the python got busy and today, two earners working probably more than two jobs can not quite support themselves and a much smaller family.
Is the solution to exhale a bit more, hoping to achieve some slack? It hasn't worked so far.
Noni
Here kitty-kitty-kitty
http://content.pyzam.com/funnypics/9/pyzamnomoreask.jpg
Don't ask, something I was sent a few days ago
lawyerliz,
Peaches, like other stone fruit or apples & pears, need efruis to be pruned early in the season to have consistent crops.
keep 6 inches between the buds and it will all be good.
I'll happily buy cheap or in-store brands for lots of things, but I draw the line at lousy beer. If I don't have the scratch to get something decent then it's water for me.
Anonymous writes:
Alcoholic liver disease (most recent) by country
Not number 1 but close enough.
Anonymous | 04.27.08 - 10:00 pm | #
You gotta be trolling but I'll bite... Totals w/o context is just numbers. Try the "per capita" tab. Looks a lot different - huh? The relatively low UK numbers kinda surprised me.
Try the "per capita" tab. Looks a lot different - huh?
The thing I noticed is that France isn't listed. That is a serious oversight.
"In 1959, it was not an urban legend. The Alpo can said "Fit for human consumption." On paydays at the Richmond, California refinery, many shopping carts were filled with three items: cases of Hamm's beer; 25-pound bags of rice; cases of Alpo."
I thought '50s were prosperous times in US. Could this be true?
Anyone seen "mystery cans" for sale yet?
I remember in the 80's stores would sell canned goods sans labels for a pittance.
I took the odd flyer and usually made out like a bandit.
Also, the bargain rack is back in vogue. Past-dated, dented, disco food stuffs on the cheap.
It's been 5+ years since I've seen that.
Question for all. What does a 170g can of solid Albacore packed in water cost where you live?
Hi CR,
I have put up a link of your blog on my own blog. I would be very obliged if you could do the same.
Blog Name: Loan-Credit-Equity
URL: Blogger: Blog not found
Thanks
Only 3 visitors - I believe the least I have ever seen. Good omen for shorts?
I think it's great that cheapness is going to be fashionable. But if I remember correctly from the last few times I was poor, the attractive young ladies never seemed to see it quite that way.
c'mon albrt, you were never poor, you were just broke!
speaking from experience there is a difference, and I hope it stays that way for all who frequent this great site...
"Pay me now or pay me later" was the Fram Oil Filter from the 70's
Sold in Wal-Mart stores everywhere.
Now all we need is to bring back those commercials with Euell Gibbons telling us that "some parts of a tree are edible."
Yeah, but he was selling Post Grape Nuts, wasn't he? A name brand, tsk-tsk.
Worst.Thing.Ever.Put .in.a.Bottle.... and also an Upstate NY invention.
Won't argue the first, but second part is wrong.
Moxie was created in 1876 by Dr. Augustin Thompson formerly of Union, Maine, while working for the Ayer Drug Company in Lowell, Massachusetts. Accordingly, Moxie stands today as Maine's state beverage. Moxie was first marketed as a patent medicine in Lowell, Massachusetts, under the product name Moxie Nerve Food." [1] From 1928 through 1953 Moxie was bottled at 74 Heath St. in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston, Massachusetts. The building, known as Moxieland,[2] featured an advertisement on the roof along with an arrow pointing in the direction of Logan Airport.[3] Moxie was said to cure ailments ranging from softening of the brain to loss of manhood. [Wikipedia]
Add your joke here...
Hmmm, what would Marie-Antoinette have said here?
Seriously though, rather than buy cheaper foods, why not just buy less? This would have the added benefit of reducing the level of obesity in America. It's win, win, except maybe for the food producers.
"So why the tame CPI figures? "
Shady CPI seasonal adjustment manipulation.
The Big Picture
ugh, here in the Midwest at a discount store it's $1.53 per can. At Aldi, it's still about $1.00. Maybe that's gone up a little recently, don't know.
My life became just a little better when
Aldi started selling the good tuna!
The one area that could lead to major lifestyle changes for American families is if the dominant role of "the child" in family life can be downsized. I have no children, so I can stand back and see what is going on. It is ridiculous - everything revolves around driving the child to practices, making sure the child is keeping up with the Jones's child, providing the child with "enrichment" through, e.g. summer whitewater rafting camp, UN camp, spa camp, music camp, whatever, and, in general, making sure the child never "falls behind," in any category, any way.
This means that parents "have to have bigger cars," that parents "have to pay for uniforms," that parents "have to pay for extra coaching," that parents "have to pay for a debutante style prom experience." It's unbelievable. And it's a war that parents can never end, lest their child "falls behind."
Axe any travel sports below high school. Make the kids ride the school bus where possible - yes, even seniors. Tell the kids that, indeed, "we can't afford that." Tell them that the breadwinners are discontinuing the weekly maid service and that the kids will be washing the dishes and mowing the lawns.
This tyranny of the child leads to families relying on takeout and eating out, which leads to obesity. It leads to dead-tired parents. It leads to the "we have to have a third car" mentality.
I don't know how these kids function when they hit age 25 with no idea of how to be poor.
I guess the progression is Taco Bell -> Wet Dog Food -> Dry Dog Food
ac | 04.27.08 - 6:19 pm | #
Which direction is that progression?
Interestingly,
we went to Costco yesterday to pack up on various foods.
I eat a lot of rice (almost every day), and I'm almost out, so I went to get a bag. it wasn't there.
I thought they might have moved it to a more central/visible location, but nope, it was gone.
no rice in the store. I saw 4 other people looking for the rice too...
location: Minneapolis. (actually, St. Louis Park, the suburb just west of Mpls, this costco serves Mpls).
On CNBC Warren Buffet said, Recession will not be short and shallow from what he sees.
Been living inferior for a long time and like it. let all the keep up with the jones's struggle with all their monthly payments taking eating up their paycheck.
No more refi's bailouts to save the day.
It amazes me that home sellers still start their home prices at the bubble prices. of course they never sell so then they start the slow price drops.
It's funny how they say they are motivated or present all offers and when you do they get all pissed off when you tell them what it is really worth.
Screw them. let them work for a living and save instead of living off of home appreciation magic.
None of this matters - the Recession, which never happened, is over based upon the ever-rising stock market. Soon, all will be well, and we can get back to "normal" where people "buy" houses at 5 to 10 times their annual income using "affordibility products" that allow for toxic loan explosions a few years later.
I really think this will be the first Recession/Depression where the stock market will decouple completely from reality - once the real people leave, all that is left are computerized momentum players.
I can imagine a strange world where people are hoping they can afford enough gas to get to the soup lines, McMansions sit for years, rotting, with fading price signs claiming that 10% off 2005 peak pricing is a "bargain," and companies that have gone out of business still have their stock traded ever higher by unknowing computer programs based on technical "analysis" and not reality. The stocks would have been delisted, but the companies involved in doing that went out of business, too; but since the rating agencies still gave the bankrupt companies an AAA rating, all is well!
"no ticky no laundly"
"no tantlum no late cut"
Also noticed the liquor stores are stalking up and offering cheaper priced beers.
Bought a 6 pack of 16 ozs of Schaeffer beer. Schaeffer is the one beer to have when your having more than one! $3.49
In the early 1900's pabst and schaeffer were best selling beers.
Also noticed for years that many neighbors did not have much in the way of recyclables (some do not recycle as they should). Most eating fast food slop several times a week.
Many have big pouches and out of shape.
My wife and I eat alot but home cooked and healthy.Same with my kids. And yes every friend has the most up to date gadgets and phones. My oldest girl finally got her first phone.
I laugh at these people when i go on the county records and see their mortgage debt. One example friend bought a house in 1995 for $250K. well just checked out their mtg. $350k primary mtg with a $250K home equity line. yes they did upgrade the house and made it nice, but total overkill and good luck with the elevated property taxes.
Said it before, I'll say it again:
1) Recession: People eating out of your trash can.
2) Depression: Eating out of a trash can.
3) Severe Depression: People eating people out of trash cans.
what does it means "take issues off the market": Muni Auction Market Shrinks by 34%, Reducing Costs (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
Index-fund investment in CBOT corn, soybeans and wheat has increased 66 percent to the equivalent of 902,105 futures contracts, a record, since January 2006, when the government began collecting the data. Each contract represents 5,000 bushels, about what Niemeyer reaps from every 22 acres of corn planted
Wall Street Grain Hoarding Brings Farmers, Consumers Near Ruin - Bloomberg.com
this guy is getting 227 bushels' per acre? is there a farmer here who can giev credebility to this?
The best part of waking up
Is the Folgers in your cup!
Question for all. What does a 170g can of solid Albacore packed in water cost where you live?
6 oz. can $1.79 / peapod.com Chicago, IL "Our Family" Brand / Solid Albacore packed in H20.
or, you can get ALPO 13.2 oz. canned for just 99 cents!
INFO:
Enticing aroma. Purina Alpo Hearty Classics without Gravy with Beef is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for growth and maintenance of dogs. Made in USA.
I thought '50s were prosperous times in US. Could this be true?
BSR | 04.28.08 - 2:38 am | #
The 50's were before the war on poverty. Huge areas of the U.S. were downright 3rd world back then, Appalachia, Miss Delta, Ozarks, black inner cities etc. Much bigger middle class, and fewer plutocrats, but still lots of people in poverty.
"once the real people leave, all that is left are computerized momentum players."
An interesting scenario for a sci-fi story set a century in the future. I wonder what the Dow will be at without the encumbrance of all those pesky humans.
A large part of the muni market new issuance is "refunding." It means that the issuers call in older bonds and then issue new bonds at lower interest rates or for better terms. The same amount of debt principal continues but with new bonds, and old bonds are retired.
That's why you always want to look at your yield to call in a muni, not your yield to maturity.
Elvis writes:
When people start eating the rats instead of the squirrels, trouble is brewing.
Elvis | 04.27.08 - 7:29 pm | #
Elvis buddy!
A squirrel IS a rat. It just lives in the country. Sort of the equivalent of the urban suburban thing.
Sue, spot on. I was laughing at the suggestion above that the working poor are wastrels while highly paid professionals are paragons of thrift.
Who is buying all those antimicrobial countertops and lugging them home in SUVs next to $900 strollers? Who is outfitting their fourth bathrooms with "kids' toilets?" Who has been buying homes with 900 s.f. master suites with $8000 soaking tubs to escape from the tyranny of their children?
Must've been the bagger at Walmart.
Markel,
If you calculate by net worth, those people in the soaking tubs are the working poor.
That WalMart bagger might actually have a little cash tucked away. Or not.
Out here, my neighbors to the north live in a city that has one of the highest median house price levels, and does have the highest minimum wage of anywhere in the US of A. How these two facts implicate into the attached story may be interesting to the dispassionate observers on this blog. The local bakery is closing, and explanations are being aimed in a version of this week's class war.
ABQjournal.com: Albuquerque Journal
The one area that could lead to major lifestyle changes for American families is if the dominant role of "the child" in family life can be downsized. I have no children, so I can stand back and see what is going on.
Sue, I do have kids - two of 'em, a 2-year-old and a newborn - and even I'm in total agreement with your thoughts.
Next to weddings, the single best example of why the zombie American consumer somehow can't find a way to save is the "baby and young child" industry. Throwing thousands of dollars away catering to the little princes' and princesses' every whim is bad enough, but throwing thousands of dollars away on kids under the age of 2 - who don't even have the capacity to know or care! - is nothing short of obscene.
We bought both our kids' furniture sets, their strollers, play items, etc. (everything except the car seats) on Craigslist for about 25-35 cents on the dollar. Everything they wear comes from the 70%, 80%, 90%-off clearance racks at Children's Place and Carter's. Private label diapers from Wal-Mart. And so on.
All those things, and I'm still astonished at how much it costs to raise 'em.
The people who are dropping $2,500 on European cribs, $900 on Bugaboo strollers, and $40 on miniature purple-and-white dresses from Hartstrings that little Alexis is just gonna plaster with various bodily fluids anyway? I can't imagine why - or even how. Simply astonishing. Talk about an industry that'll be crying out for some no-frills competition in a couple of years ...
From the article, CR posted: "Spending data and interviews around the country show that middle- and working-class consumers are starting to switch from name brands to cheaper alternatives, to eat in instead of dining out and to fly at unusual hours to shave dollars off airfares.
...
Wal-Mart Stores reports stronger-than-usual sales of peanut butter and spaghetti, while restaurants like Dominos Pizza and Ruby Tuesday have suffered a falloff in orders, suggesting that many Americans are sticking to low-cost home-cooked meals."
then said: "This is classic behavior in tough economic times."
Does everything here have to have a bearish spin? This is also classic behavior of people who aren't stupid with their money and are trying to eat healthier.
I've been buying generics at the grocery store for over a decade, and quit eating out so much because the choices on the menu aren't as healthy as I could have at home.
Who are you holier-than-thou bloggers and posters that think every American but you is a spoiled, wasteful, short-sighted moron about money?
Sebastia
One example friend bought a house in 1995 for $250K. well just checked out their mtg. $350k primary mtg with a $250K home equity line. yes they did upgrade the house and made it nice, but total overkill and good luck with the elevated property taxes.
So, your hobby is looking up your friends' property records and chuckling over their projected financial problems? I gotta say, I find that more than a little creepy.
At least Alpo is still made in the USA!
Sebastion: Come on - if people were eating out of dumpsters, you'd put a bullish spin on it and claim it is " an increased awareness of the importance of recycling" or some nonsense.
People are poor and getting poorer thanks to the collapsing Ponzi scheme of the current economy. Get used to it.
Seb asks:
"Who are you holier-than-thou bloggers and posters that think every American but you is a spoiled, wasteful, short-sighted moron about money?"
Just speaking for myself, a self-confessed moron about money and a charter member of the International Brotherhood of Deferred Gratificationalists, I have only one basic motivation for frequenting these pages: self-defense.
Never had use for debt and would like to keep what I've got for my kids.
What's your excuse?
"Who are you holier-than-thou bloggers and posters that think every American but you is a spoiled, wasteful, short-sighted moron about money?"
Troll. Troll. Troll.
Then the python got busy and today, two earners working probably more than two jobs can not quite support themselves and a much smaller family.
That is a beautiful analogy of what the free-market economy has had us do WRT bidding up home prices to the point of unaffordability (and beyond).
The solution IMV is the Single Tax. A taxation policy that got memory-holed nearly 100 years ago now.
I've got three kids myself but totally agree about out-of-control kids spending. Our family is fortunate to live in a neighborhood where things like modest birthday parties are the norm, but it is totally nuts how out of control little things like birthday parties have gotten in the last several years.
Consumers are going to be reluctant to make their kids feel the pinch though. People don't want to "make the kids suffer," even if that "suffering" is for the kids' own good. Hard times come; they will come again when the kid is a grown-up. If your kid watches you gracefully deal with tough economic times, the kid will have that memory bank to draw from when he deals with hard times as a grownup.
Eventually people won't have a choice but to cut back on overspending "for the sake of the kids." But most people will cut back on other areas first if they can, or keep going into debt to support it as long as they can.
I've been buying generics at the grocery store for over a decade,
Exactly. And now that Americans not as holy and pure as we are have started to do the same we can say it's a sign of recessionary times.
it will finally be game over for the economy when consumers looking at an ad start to consider whether they really want to purchase the item or just bonk the model
Troy put a nice scoop of flattery on my plate: "...beautiful analogy..."
I have seen how this was going for a couple of decades now. The more the working people economize, the less discretionary spending is left to them. Heck, read any Dilbert book. Downsizing staff without changing workload, Chapter elevening out from under health and pension obligations, a host of strategies aimed at undercutting salaries and stability and benefits -- if it had happened in a year or two instead of twenty, it would have been seen as an hostile takeover.
If lentils are so damn good, load up each of the CEOs with a 30 lb bag, give him a parachute of solid gold, and drop him on a desert island where he will experience the libertarian ideal -- pay NO taxes, have NO crime, NO rules or laws or bureaucrats, and NO needy people asking for help.
Noni
experiencing rhinovirus induced grouchiness
I was fine when they outsourced my job to India.
I was fine when they said I would be foreclosed upon. I just mailed my keys to the bank.
I was fine when they wouldn't let me get a job with the federal government because I was in default on my student loans.
I was fine when they said I had to cut back from my 5 dollar a day Starbucks habit.
However, if they try to make me drink keystone light or natural light, it will be revolution and I will fire the first shot.
Guys,
late reply from me but thanks. I'm gonna stock up on the tuna while it's .69/can.
In other news I read the tuna stocks are collapsing. oi.