Shopping at Amazon?
Wait! If you click on the Amazon banner link at the top of the page first, HCN will get a percentage of anything you purchase for 24 hours!
Open predictions
Our local book authors
User login
Who's online
There are currently 34 members and 183 guests online.
Currently online
- ResistanceIsFeudal
- shill
- Nanoo-Nanoo
- Black Star Ranch
- Eric
- 12th Percentile
- Outsider
- Lobbyist Ben Dover
- Mike in Long Island
- sscripko
- traderwalt
- burnside
- Rickkk
- Firemane
- RockyR
- BelieverJeff
- black dog
- Bruce in Tennessee
- Windward.Broach
- nova
- Cobradriver
- bearly
- Cat Daddy
- Blue Guy Red State
- Lurking Lawyer
- Haralambos
- silvertoes two
- gruntled
- gabyjan
- Comrade Kristina
- JP
- kratovil1
- dr munch
- Mert717
Is this a joke?
My father always said that the genius of teh American people was to send the idiots to Congress and keep the decent folks local.
This is at best only a partial solution. Giving the houses away completely free would be even better.
Is this a joke?
Absolutely not. I am dead serious: turning the entire Congressional contingent into volunteer relitters would work wonders for the election season.
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
I think the federal government should flat give every American a million dollars and that way all our problems would disappear.
By the way, I'm running for Congress and I would like your vote.
Spitzer had to resign because he got caught in an embarrassing situation. Shouldn't Isakson have to resign because of his embarrassingly stupid proposal?
Barrel of oil: $110
1 oz of gold: $1,000
"Free" pony from congress: $15,000
Knowing that we're truly screwed: Priceless
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
Beats me. I am neither a senator nor a relitter.
I'm guessing they could be useful as a stable surface on which to sign a sales contract that obligates you to pay about $15,000 to a relitter.
am dead serious: turning the entire Congressional contingent into volunteer relitters would work wonders for the election season.
But, but Tanta! Think of the damage to the reputation of the realtor profession.
We could always increase taxes on those who don't buy a house this year.
It strikes me that this is the closest thing to an actual helicopter drop of currency yet proposed.
I'm guessing they could be useful as a stable surface on which to sign a sales contract that obligates you to pay about $15,000 to a relitter.
hmmm. that's a good guess. i was thinking they're probably good for making fruitcakes on, but i wouldn't know, my countertops are made of tile.
Please, please...don't insult the guy. I mean, he's liable to add another zero.
more dow cliff diving this morning
To Kicker, Rich, CR, Tanta, ...
Question:
Who has the authority to decide what needs to be marked to market?
Can they effectively make a loan to the bag holders by allowing them to one-time declare a set of assets that they are unable to mark-to-market with the stipulation that every year for the next 30 years they must mark to market or writeoff 1/30 of these assets. Effectively letting them runoff their losses over 30 years. (Of course 30 can be any other suitable number).
How about commission free transactions courtesy of the NAR.
6% time the average house (220K?) is pretty darn close to 15K
What a bunch of losers....
Kunstler had a good use for granite counter tops a couple of Mondays ago...
Seriously...where is the punch line?
Heck, why don't the government buy up all the houses, and hand them out for free? That way, there would be less inventory, people will live in the now empty houses, and won't even have to make payments?
Somehow, I feel that the first part of my joke will become true, but the recipients won't be the people, but wall street.
CR, thanks for your ongoing coverage. I was wondering what your thoughts (or anyone else's) are with respect to FDIC being at risk at banks which are increasingly funded by FHLB.
More on the issue:
The Federal Home Loan Banks to the Rescue! - John Paul Koning - Mises Institute
FHLB has increased exposure to banks like CFC and WM, with FHLB having first dibs when things get awry.
Anyone wanna buy some $15k houses.... knowwhaddImeanwinkwinknodnod...
Umm here is a novel Idea...how about we suspend the illegal Income tax...would this not put more (labor) dollars in peoples pocket?
Perhaps the correct question is:
Can the Federal Reserve use the above scheme to exempt assets from the computation of how much a bank needs to place on deposit with the Federal Reserve. Effectively, let them store their toxic MBS, CDO, etc in an SIV off the balance sheet but be forced to bring it back on 1/30 at a time for the next 30 years.
It would have the added benefit that the idiots at these financial institutions would have a reminder for 30 years about the moral hazard they are setting themselves up for if they try to repeat history.
Who has the authority to decide what needs to be marked to market?
Marking assets to market is an accounting rule.
It is theoretically possible that the SEC in cahoots with FASB could propose some goofy exception to M2M requirements such as what you outline.
This would not force anyone to buy shares of any firm that just declared that it has a balance sheet full of unmarketable assets. But perhaps we could send a $15,000 tax rebate check to anyone who buys shares of C?
Seriously...where is the punch line?
Here, bend over this granite countertop and let the nice Congresscritter explain it to you...
If my name was Spitzer...i might just take you up on that offer
Tanta said:
This would not force anyone to buy shares of any firm that just declared that it has a balance sheet full of unmarketable assets.
I doubt the shareholders would object to a diluted share price when the alternative is a non-existent one from the bank becoming insolvent.
trail for Congress!
Can I promise my tax rebate for the down payment.
I'd rather not have any skin in the game. That's worked well so far.
Oh and I want a pay option ARM as well through the FHA. There's a $2.2M house in the Encino hills I'd like to party at for a while.
Cheers,
Ok, I think this helps explain my skepticism yesterday about government "solutions".
Actually, though, I like this one. My neighbor across the street has the exact same home model as I do, and a similar lot.
I'd be happy to move across the street for a cool $15K.
OriginalFrank:
You won't have to move at all. Just trade houses twice for a cool $30,000.
Gawd, I love the implied theory here that #households is the variable that expands and contracts to meet demand. And that MBS buyers are lining up to back anyone whose deciding factor for entering the housing market is a one-time payment from the government.
Meanwhile, the gub'mint proposes to tell lenders how to change underwriting policies to avoid another mortgage meltdown? I thought it was only the Army that was always preparing the fight the last war over again...
Tanta-
Sorry meant to put that last post under my name. Too early, pre-coffee
Do we have a sockpuppet?
At zero percent interest rates the housing problems all go away. Same with the value of our dollars.
Event horizon.
Lets talk about the 15,000 proposal for 2 years so people sit on the fence waiting for the free hand out.
1. eliminate corporate income tax
2. eliminate tax on dividends
3. eliminate long term capital gains tax
Was this snarky?
Or did someone steal your name?
I'm thinking I'll take the $15K and buy 1,500 of those hundred dollar homes in Detroit we saw a few weeks ago. I could rent them for a couple of bucks a month. ...
Or did someone steal your name?
Yes. And I accidentally deleted it. Guess "mistakes" are rampant this morning.
Sounds to me like the Subprime Housing Investment Corporation, or SHIT Co for short.
Sorry meant to put that last post under my name.
How, precisely, did "Tanta" end up "accidentally" getting into the name field on Halo for you?
Have you been posting other comments as Tanta?
I don't recommend it. It'll get you banned.
Hey I like the idea of the government paying me to take over a
property. I used to be a landlord and
with all the hassles, I always thought that I should be making more(money).
So now I will wait to get properties, not only free, perhaps
even with added incentives.
I think the Government should give the properties away(free) to experienced landlords who will manage them properly for a period of five years.(no Kidding)
Isakson was a longtime realtor and now congressman. I wonder if there are any longtime mortgage brokers who are now congressman.
And who among the 3 candidates would be most likely to go for such an idea? Who is most likely to give out ponies?
Shucks I thought you flipped and were going hardcore libertarian on us....
If we put the originators of these ideas in a salt cavern somewhere we could call it the "National Strategic Stupidity Reserve". Except I'm afraid stupidity may be a renewable resource.
Congress's biggest and dumbest idea so far is to send out rebate checks: we borrow money from abroad to pay for the rebate the people use a portion of the money to buy good produced abroad. Brilliant! More downward pressure on the dollar and it does nothing to solve the malaise in credit markets.
Tom,
Highly renewable. If we could just turn it into fuel.
Cheers,
being as my powder is still dry...LOVE the idea. I'm one of few who would qualify for the $15k! Finally a proposition to assist renters and savers vs. previous debtors.
Tanta, it's more likely that he/she was commenting on other blogs using your name. someone would have noticed if it was happening here.
The first step in any "solution" to this crisis must involve wiping out a lot of shareholders.
Otherwise, it's fake.
bacon, that's a great observation--as we know, Halo keeps your name and e-mail pre-populated when you step onto another blog.
Misean writes:
Tom,
Highly renewable. If we could just turn it into fuel.
They're working on that at the U. of Illinois:
Crude oil and gasoline prices are near an all-time high. But don't despair. One scientist has found an alternative source of energy: pig manure.
Yuanhui Zhang, an agricultural engineering professor at the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, has succeeded in turning small batches of hog waste into oil.
Pig Manure Converted to Crude Oil
Put receptacles under every Realtor's desk, in every boardroom, in Congressional offices....
bacon dreamz writes:
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
bacon dreamz | 03.13.08 - 10:55 am | #
To give Sen. Johnny Isakson a frontal lobotomy!
I belive that maybe the offer of 15K should go toi the seller if anyone as encouragement and incentive to lower the f'ing price, pick up the closing costs, paint and leave carpet intact, leave the copper wire etc.etc. Of course the following year the HO would then be taxed on the 165K as income or gain seen..
uh hu and we potential buyers no better than to take 15K on a 450K house that still needs to drop another 2/3rds.....
Comeo on JI your better than this..
$15000 don't move me.
The place I am looking at needs to come down 75K before the 15K will cause a little consideration.
But, when I buy I will apply.
The sellers are already getting more than $15K if the IRS forgives their windfall resulting from all the short sales going on.
This sounds like one of those jokes:
Q: What do you get when you put a Realtor, a homebuyer, and a Congresscritter in a room with granite countertops?
A: I don't know but someone will be paid and someone will be screwed.
Pig Manure plays,
SFD,SEB two of my favorite pork-inflation plays.
bacon dreamz writes:
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
bacon dreamz | 03.13.08 - 10:55 am | #
Economist's View: Yapping About Money: The Stone Money of Yap
This blows away those new credit card points programs whre you can touch the cloth of celebrity: a couple of beers with John Travolta, a shopping outing Zsa Zsa Gabor, or a quick smoke with with Dawn Wells...
Great Ide-er Tanta
Nades,
You are the Man!!!
Your proposal would do wonders for my portfolio.
I am not sure the rest of you would make out so well.
As the man said "Make My Day!"
Here's the key quote:
Senate Republican leaders have signed on to the rebate check idea.
Who knew that GOP free market capitalists was really just welfare queens in disguise.
This was too funny.
But hey, the idea of meeting the Congressman in the potential new home.....
Scary!!
Hilarious!
Let's print up more money to try to keep the Housing Bubble propped up! The net goal, of course, is to raise the price of all houses by the exact amount of "free" money they intend to give out. Then, there's all the fraud that will be involved as assorted crooks make off with $15K multiple times. And naturally honest people will be screwed with this idea.
I expect it to pass into law next week considering how stupid and impractical an idea it is!
Who knew that GOP free market capitalists was really just welfare queens in disguise.
Um:
"But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. ... As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage." -- Dwight Eisenhower, 1961
Okay, hold on a minute. I don't understand something.
A $15,000 tax rebate? Does that mean you have to pay $15,000 in taxes before you'd see a benefit?
What income level pays $15,000 in taxes? Doesn't seem like that would help the little guy very much.
Not that I'm little or anything of course.......
nades wrote, 6% time the average house (220K?) is pretty darn close to 15K
Can you spell "parasites" and "monopolists"?
How about higher rebate checks for home buyers who take out Loans Formerly Known as Jumbos? Or maybe even an enhancement based on buying something in an area with a high foreclosure rate? Maybe they could throw in a free lawnmower too so proud new owners could mow the lawns of foreclosed neighboring properties. Could you use the tax rebate check for your down payment? There must be a way to set that up.
"If we can convince buyers to come back to the marketplace and buy these houses, then the houses aren't vacant. It's replaced by an owner-occupant, who is there making payments on a loan and helping all of the other houses around."
Are these new owner-occupants going to suddenly appear out of a vacuum or move out from under a bridge?
heh heh
If you take $15,000 out of my pocket and then give it back to me, I guess I do feel richer.
...
Wow! Makes my idea of forcing any "prize winner" to take houses in lieu of cash look sane. The idea is to legislate that all the events where they give out those poster-sized checks must substitute title deeds. Tennis stars would own subdivisions and Tiger Woods would end up with entire cities. Oh, and if that's not enough, any all-star game payouts would be in houses too. And any charitable giving must be done in housing units to be tax deductible. And I'm sure there are other targets just waiting.
Our problem in democracy that is able to expand debt for decades at a time is that it's easy for people to feel that debt doesn't cost. We will learn different within a few years, but....
In the meantime, there is a danger of an acceleration of the idea of I-benefit through Government benefits to me, and that that would be good.
Imagine if there is a general population realization after the coming Argentina-like result (even if less strong) was actually about deficit spending....
Can we get there without blaming the free market, capitalism, etc.?
..
I like this idea. Maybe take a couple of those burned-out sub-$500 Detroit crack houses BigPicture linked to a couple of weeks ago and make my $30K, then flip them to every member of my family.
Housing welfare riots in Florida, via Drudge.
Local News: West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Martin & St. Lucie Counties | The Palm Beach Post
Seemed relevant somehow
Tanta
usually you bless us with wise and poignant elucidation, however suggesting potential home sellers soil their (presumably) clean homes with congress critters is not one of your best ideas. Perhaps the utter stupidity of the $15K checks idea tumbled your (and mine) brain cells.
I like how Isaksen suggests that this will reduce the vacant house problem. Because the buyers, of course, were living in tents before the 15k subsidy came around, which enticed them to enter conventional housing. They did not leave another dwelling vacant.
Mike;
six more thousand points off the dow and the last line says it all...
The Postal Service has a site called stamps.com where you can print your own stamps. Why can't the Fed set up something similar, allowing us to print our own money??
John Stark...
And pay for the money with S&H Green stamps?
S & H? I'm too young to remember pasting those into the little booklets after wetting them with a sponge, and then going to the redemption center with my mom to get a new toaster.
You're dating yourself--but hey, I've dated worse people myself...
John Stark: Didn't Warren Buffet once own S&L GreenStamps?
Gawains Ghost: Shouldn't that be "Subprime Housing Investment Trust Corporation"?
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
Avoid dropping Harley cylinder heads on them. They chip and wifey gets pissed.
I'm thinking I'll take the $15K and buy 1,500 of those hundred dollar homes in Detroit we saw a few weeks ago. I could rent them for a couple of bucks a month. ...
Buy one, walk with 14,900.00 and never risk your life visiting the neighborhood. Rinse and repeat.
This is actually the best stimulus proposal i've heard. They should scrap the $600/$1200 checks. That was a stupid band-aid. Take that $100B and give $15k tax rebates to buy a home. It would clear the inventory quickly. The problem in the bubble was that people who shouldnt be buying homes were buying homes. Now the problem is that people that should be buying homes are scared to buy homes. This rebate attacks the heart of the problems in the market. Clearing the excess inventory will stabilize home prices which in turn improves consumer confidence and spending. The banks will take fewer writedowns and the bond market will unclench. The bears on this board are the herd right now. It is really easy to be bearish or to criticize a proposal when every one else has blinders on.
gimme 15k puh-reeze
Get used to goofy ideas folks. Ever heard of something called "The New Deal". A lot of people criticized the government for turning to socialism to combat a so called "free market" failure when the grips of the Great Depression of the '30s was kicking this country's ass..
Listen people. The free market has failed us. Turns out the "free market" is now not so free. It is a slave to excess debt w/ a big ball and chain around both legs of our economy. But we still expect the economy to run the marathon in record time don't we?
Perhaps we are all getting what we so rightly deserve as a stupid, greedy people who are so hypocritical it is unbelievable at times.
Unless you understand economics, you probably don't understand that your financial well being is DIRECTLY tied to the banks financial well being. Banks go down, you go down Mr. John Q. Public. It isn't fair but that is how it is.
Bank Bailout = John Q. Public Bailout.
John Q. Public. Stay out of what you do not understand. Shut up and pay your taxes if you know what is good for you.
What a dumb idea. I want a pony and a flat screen TV and I promise to never bother another congressman for a favor!
Ok - I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a minute. I'm a little under the weather, so please don't beat me senseless with a granite countertop...
Why, exactly, is this proposal "teh dumbest" of all?
I agree that it's insane, but I think most proposals to "fix" the housing market are insane. We left sane fiscal policy behind us a long, long time ago.
This one, it seems to me, at least has a couple of relative merits.
First - it's explicit. We already give homeowners tax bennies worth substantially more than 15K. How is this materially different?
This proposal is at least completely direct about the behavior being incentivized. Most incentives don't actually reward buying a home, they reward going into debt (the mortgage interest deduction) defaulting on debt (IRS forgiveness) or SELLING your home in a declining market (cap gains exemption from the 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act.)
In the current economic climate are these the specific behaviors the government really wants to be incentivizing?...
It also seems like this proposal creates less moral hazard - at least it doesn't exclusively reward the dishonest and/or stupid.
So I'd sincerely like to know from the wiser minds here - why is this proposal worse than the others being floated?
Flame-retardant underwear donned. Let me have it
if I buy my friends home, then sell it back to him, do we effectively both get the tax deduction?
Seriously, this is the last straw for this GA voter. I will be voting for whomever opposes this dolt in the next election; I don't care if it's Eliot Spitzer's call girl.
bacon dreamz writes:
what is the correct use of granite countertops?
They'd probably make pretty nice gravel if you have a good sledgehammer...
Isakson is the founder of Northside Realty, which is one of the largest RE brokerage firms in Atlanta. His son-in-law owns one of the biggest RE schools in Atlanta. Isakson only cares about lining his & his family's own pockets.
What if houses were sold $15,000 cheaper than they are now? Oh wait......
Wasn't Johnny Isakson the name of the buffonish senator in the Manchurian Candidate- the one that kept changing the number of card-carrying Communists that he claimed were in the state department?
On wait, that was Senator Johnny Iselin.
if I buy my friends home, then sell it back to him, do we effectively both get the tax deduction?
You know...I readily admit I'm new to the wonders of Haloscan, but embedding tags in Haloscan posts only works because the programmers were clueless...
Anyway...with a 6% Realtor[tm] commission, twice realized, this plan disproportionately benefits buyers of lower-cost housing, unlike Teh Dumbest plan from Feldstein which not only disproportionately, but solely, benefits buyers who can hold 15-year mortgages.
As long as both parties own houses worth less than $125K, this house double-trade would be profitable under the Isakson Plan. Unfortunately for us taxpayers living in coastal CA, the plan sounds endlessly profitable. If two people happen to own appropriately valued houses, why stop at just one house swap?