Aren't they supposed to release this kind of completely non-substantive, pump-n-dump news at 3:45 Eastern to burn the shorts? The indices took less than half an hour to discount this and get back on their previous unimpressive trajectory.
The market is actually more stable, IMO, when there are threats of downgrades. Now that "everything is just fine" there is more risk of a big more downward.
MBIA has a potential libality of $45B to $150B. Every 1-2 month it's resource will dwindle it will be placed on credit watch market will be down... MBI will raise another $1.5B and AAA afariamed....rinse repeat.
At this rate, how can anyone justify paying for bond insurance when this is the kind of crisis inflicted by a "AAA" company? The purchasers need to have insurance on the insurance company at this point. I don't see how the whole industry doesn't collapse under an avalanche of common sense, but this takes the cake.
What's truly disturbing is that this provides cover for Moody's to follow suit.
So, the market was abuzz Friday afternoon with news of a potential bailout of Ambac Financial Group. As more clarity on what may be happening emerged over the weekend, the enthusiasm has eroded, replaced by a lot of head-scratching.
The main question would be, is that all there is? The proposed bailout, according to todays Wall Street Journal, is for a $3 billion capital infusion from a consortium of banks with big exposures to debt that would stand to lose a lot of value if monoline insurers Ambac Financial and MBIA lose their triple-A rating.
I remember Jack Grubman downgrading Worldcom after it had lost 90% or so of its value and soon after filed for bankruptcy. He was an II ranked analyst. One of the "smartest" guys. Made over 20 million a year.
Wake up America, its all a giant wall street sales pitch.
What a farce. The rating agencies are a waste of space and everyone knows it. Its like one insider's club where you get a AAA for knowing the right people. If any company tried today to get a AAA rating from S&P or Moody's with the same financial profile as an MBIA or Ambac they'd be shown the door.
Come... What else could we expect? The ratings agencies are going to give EVERY possible benefit of the doubt to the monolines since the implications of a downgrade are so huge (and the ratings agencies will get enourmous egg on their face as they downgrade tonnes of insured securities).
Just look at all the other downgrades that have happened: they only occur AFTER the asset has already lost it's value.
The monolines will be downgraded the day they actually shut their doors, not before. The ratings are just trailing indicators of actual business health.
Now that "everything is just fine" there is more risk of a big more downward.
Also if a lot of shorts get beaten out of the market that helps take the floor out.
It will be interesting to see if aggressive hedgies flush with easy money from teh Ben will be able to cause markets to break upwards out of their sideways trend and take us up to DOW 15000 and our first recession bull market.
Here's my theory. S&P and Moody's were ready to downgrade monolines. But then the auction rate disaster hit.
Now, you have hundreds of munis-on-the-brink that have to refinance long-term debt by refunding auction rate securities. They wouldn't be able to do this in a panicked muni market. So, the ratings agencies have to help hold the market together again until these refinancings take place.
It's not clear who is going to step up and bail out all these munis that need to refinance. But maybe they're working on it. This theory would mean the auction rate market is basically dead. It's not coming back.
Short-term , it would appear XL and their associated companies , along with FGIC and their associated companies -- took the hit for the team. Affirming MBI and ABK before the completion of whatever workout / bailout / capital injection / bifurcation scheme is formally announced and the details delineated , just removes whatever credibility S&P had remaining in my opinion. It remains to be seen what Moody's does and when they choose to act... will they act now or wait until whatever rescue proposal for ABK is put forth ? Will Moody's downgrade despite the capital injection ? Stay tuned...
I'm thinking this just reflects that the market will not let the bond insurers fail. Bank of America et al will keep pumping money into the monolines as needed since the cost of a complete ratings collapse is so much greater. Perhaps S&P understands this, and thus the AAA rating. "Too big to fail", in other words.
more and more people will be withdrawing from this market in light of the obvious continuing government manipulation of the markets in favor of the top 1% who own most of the stock market. sayonara.
this was as expected as anything. Got me some C on a discount today, right after the news (24.7, a loss right now), and I believe this will be a big bad bear rally (yes, I think C is POS).
Never discount the "up machine" of wallstreet. And beware of the bull, he's been at it for 20 some years.
We'll get back to shorting when the top is in place (C at 27? Dow 13500? Amzn 80? there will be lots of telltales)
The rating agencies credibility is clearly shot, but as they are legislatively protected as the only games in town, that probably doesn't matter in the short term.
But it begs a question: What liabilities do rating agencies have for their ratings? For example, can S&P be sued for negligence or something similar if they are found to be knowingly propping up false ratings?
Where's my retest of the Jan. 22 lows? Actually, I still expect one this week, particularly with weak financials.
The monolines will be bailed out one way or another anyway. No big news.
The RE market numbers are not as meaningful to me because regardless of the slump the desirable neighbourhoods seem to hold up almost fine. You can get deals in crappy areas. Not so great.
Just delaying the eventual pain. Reminds me of pulling off a bandaid. You can either yank it off in one painfull pull and get it over with or slowly pull it off and suffer pain the entire time. I always go for the quick pain.
I think this is the key line from the S&P opinion:
"MBIA's ability to raise $2.6 billion was ``a strong statement of management's ability to address the concerns relating to the capital adequacy of the company,'' S&P said."
This conmes as close as they dare to saying that the monolines are going to get bailed out, with public funds if need be, no matter what. It's the same sort of reasoning that allows crappy, but huge banks to keep the AAA - too big (or, in this case, important) to fail.
"Come... What else could we expect? The ratings agencies are going to give EVERY possible benefit of the doubt to the monolines since the implications of a downgrade are so huge (and the ratings agencies will get enourmous egg on their face as they downgrade tonnes of insured securities).
Just look at all the other downgrades that have happened: they only occur AFTER the asset has already lost it's value.
The monolines will be downgraded the day they actually shut their doors, not before. The ratings are just trailing indicators of actual business health."
Could not agree more. The whole ratings process has long lost any credibility....it's just that nobody cares as along as they can make money or think they can make money. What a sad pathetic debacle of the financial markets. It's foundation is constructed from willful ignorance, fraud and willful deception.
Been there, done that ! Don't get too upset guys, remember 2000 ? Shorting was far from a walk in the park, Naz100 went from 5000 to 3000 then back to 4000 then down to 3000... then... ended up lower than 1500... lot of pain before any short was right ! Horrible worsening fundamentals are there, but this time the problems are so big that there is no way that Wall Street, the rating agencies and even the government will try to put this stuff up. But in th end reality will settle down... relax and enjoy Dow at 15,000 another opportunity to massively short this hysterically stupid market.
I can't wait...5 minutes from now Maria Bartiromo will come on CNBC and slobber about how great the world is....Bob pisani will say all the bad news out, "including the kitchen sink!"
Then next week another big blow up and there won't be a peep about their complete lack of credibility...
The Ambac (ABK) rescue plan makes me laugh, even as it totally drives the market with its backing by the agencies. A group of banks that are most directly related to the problems with ABK are bailing out ABK. You can't make this stuff up. That's like the insured insuring the insurers. Who can believe that, other than the agencies who are totally vested in keeping the AAA ratings because so much of their work on the actual stuff that is insured would not have worked without insurance.
The ones who have most to lose, who need to keep the ratings up off Ambac because of what they hold, are going to bail out Ambac, and people think this deal has credibility? I guess everyone is so desperate to preserve ABK's ratings that they will do anything. Remember though, the real issue here, as always, is house price depreciation; as long as you keep getting that you will keep getting these worries and declines. You will keep getting the writedowns.
Of course, this incestuous insured-insurance relationship is nothing new. The insurers also insure each other, not that we really know what's going on as the disclosure of these companies is so opaque that you just have a lot of guesses. That's because they have always been ridiculously regulated.
So, the rally that came because of the deal will be chimerical and must be sold. All over again.
It never ends. It will not end until the Fed cuts rates to where the net interest margin increases and the Fed guarantees those loans of struggling homeowners who live in homes, courtesy of my FHA plan.
Then this stuff will insure itself. But the time for that is a long way off, because the Fed failed to take aggressive action last year.
Now wouldn't it get interesting if Moody's comes out with a downgrade tomorrow.
I wonder if Ambac will shelve the "deal" now that they just got their rating affirmed without even raising the money. They can trot it back out in a couple of months to get their rating affirmed again.
"Remember though, the real issue here, as always, is house price depreciation; as long as you keep getting that you will keep getting these worries and declines. You will keep getting the writedowns."
Cramer is saying only now what we've been saying on this board for quite some time.
O-Joe -
Regarding RE, I think Greenwich CT and Naples, FL - south western Naples - are 2 pretty desirable areas. Those markets have really started to crack and if you have a builder, speculator or estate sale there are plenty of deals to be had - although everyone there sees prices going lower so be careful. Good luck.
Ratings agencies have almost always succeeded in defending litigation against them on first amendment grounds, claiming that they are merely authors expressing an opinion.
As the subprime investments continue to implode, the monolines will continue to deplete their reserves and require further capital infusions.
Somebody will be losing money bailing them out and as long as they do the credit markets will stay frozen.
This is going to be a bad recession.
Cramer is always wrong, you can almost take that to the bank. If he says the bailout of the bond insurers is a fake out then it must be the real thing.
I don't see what the rush is. Whatever they should be they were AAA before and have more capital now. They will have higher capital ratios after a split supporting the 'bad' book.
It's a certainty that after a split, the legacy book will be downgraded. I think people would be thrilled to get the muni piece sorted out and to put a more realistic rating on structured finance.
Anyone thinking these dinky companies are all thats backing global capital markets are going to be disappointed.
The preservation of AAA is dependent on the spitting schemes.
Of course, no one knows anything and this is just speculation. However, it is logical not to downgrade a company that is attracting capital. All the schemes involve new capital.
Old Mad Comic Strip
Takeoff on Mandrake the magician.
Caper over, Mandrecks girlfriend says all there is in the fridge is moldy Halvah.
No problem says the magician. The table is filled with a feast.
Later girlfriend is sated picking her teeth she says Thanks that was a great meal- but everything tasted like moldy halvah
I don't understand what the issue is. Wouldn't you guys do the same thing the rating agencies are? If they are honest, the whole system goes to whack, if they lie then there is a chance things "work out". By work out I mean that the pendulum doesn't swing as far as it may the other way--which would be the oppossite of what happened to the home prices.
Ziggurat,
You are assuming tthat they can attract enough capital to offset approximately US$45-$150b of losses from their structured finance portfolio. How is that going to happen? I don't think shareholders are stupid enough to stump up that kind of money. You might as well wind up the company.
I've never seen a sacrifice play like this in the markets. Surely S&P must know that this is going get a chainsaw stuck up their butts and wreck what was left of their reputation. I wonder what it took to make them throw themselves before the train.
Standard & Poor's has no credibility remaining.
All the world problems are solved.....nothing to see here, keep moving........
Yal nailed it last thread - they will restore credibility with their super duper AAAA rating now in the works...
Aren't they supposed to release this kind of completely non-substantive, pump-n-dump news at 3:45 Eastern to burn the shorts? The indices took less than half an hour to discount this and get back on their previous unimpressive trajectory.
Rally time!!!
SIV, get your money out while the sun is shining.
The market is actually more stable, IMO, when there are threats of downgrades. Now that "everything is just fine" there is more risk of a big more downward.
Get out while you can...
CR has beat MSM with the news. Usually they are uninformed / wrong but first. Good work! Wheaties this morning?
--
Hail to the Crooks!
Jas
this will now go on for ever.
MBIA has a potential libality of $45B to $150B. Every 1-2 month it's resource will dwindle it will be placed on credit watch market will be down... MBI will raise another $1.5B and AAA afariamed....rinse repeat.
So, can someone tell me why AAA rated companies would need a bail out?
Sounds like another AAA rating on a CDO to me.
I'm officially announcing my rating for the rating agencies : F with a negative outlook.
LOL!
Is there a shred of credibility left anywhere?
At this rate, how can anyone justify paying for bond insurance when this is the kind of crisis inflicted by a "AAA" company? The purchasers need to have insurance on the insurance company at this point. I don't see how the whole industry doesn't collapse under an avalanche of common sense, but this takes the cake.
What's truly disturbing is that this provides cover for Moody's to follow suit.
So what do you figure Ackman's doing? Doubling down?
To follow up on Yal's commment:
Is $3 Billion Enough for Ambac?
So, the market was abuzz Friday afternoon with news of a potential bailout of Ambac Financial Group. As more clarity on what may be happening emerged over the weekend, the enthusiasm has eroded, replaced by a lot of head-scratching.
The main question would be, is that all there is? The proposed bailout, according to todays Wall Street Journal, is for a $3 billion capital infusion from a consortium of banks with big exposures to debt that would stand to lose a lot of value if monoline insurers Ambac Financial and MBIA lose their triple-A rating.
Is $3 Billion Enough for Ambac? - MarketBeat - WSJ
I remember Jack Grubman downgrading Worldcom after it had lost 90% or so of its value and soon after filed for bankruptcy. He was an II ranked analyst. One of the "smartest" guys. Made over 20 million a year.
Wake up America, its all a giant wall street sales pitch.
What a farce. The rating agencies are a waste of space and everyone knows it. Its like one insider's club where you get a AAA for knowing the right people. If any company tried today to get a AAA rating from S&P or Moody's with the same financial profile as an MBIA or Ambac they'd be shown the door.
MBIA and Ambac will never be downgraded. The agencies will keep delaying until they can be bailed out.
Come... What else could we expect? The ratings agencies are going to give EVERY possible benefit of the doubt to the monolines since the implications of a downgrade are so huge (and the ratings agencies will get enourmous egg on their face as they downgrade tonnes of insured securities).
Just look at all the other downgrades that have happened: they only occur AFTER the asset has already lost it's value.
The monolines will be downgraded the day they actually shut their doors, not before. The ratings are just trailing indicators of actual business health.
Rating agencies and NAR shall merge. There sure will be a lot of synergy
Now that "everything is just fine" there is more risk of a big more downward.
Also if a lot of shorts get beaten out of the market that helps take the floor out.
It will be interesting to see if aggressive hedgies flush with easy money from teh Ben will be able to cause markets to break upwards out of their sideways trend and take us up to DOW 15000 and our first recession bull market.
FED will ensure ratings stay at AAA so banks can exchange trash for cash at the TAF.
AAA just doesn't mean what it used to.
Here's my theory. S&P and Moody's were ready to downgrade monolines. But then the auction rate disaster hit.
Now, you have hundreds of munis-on-the-brink that have to refinance long-term debt by refunding auction rate securities. They wouldn't be able to do this in a panicked muni market. So, the ratings agencies have to help hold the market together again until these refinancings take place.
It's not clear who is going to step up and bail out all these munis that need to refinance. But maybe they're working on it. This theory would mean the auction rate market is basically dead. It's not coming back.
AAA means as good as treasuries,right? So what's wrong with rating AMBAC as equal to our Government?it is at least as solvent,and well run...
The monolines will be downgraded once the banks have offloaded the bag to the TAF. Is there a graph of how much the TAF bag is increasing biweekly?
Short-term , it would appear XL and their associated companies , along with FGIC and their associated companies -- took the hit for the team. Affirming MBI and ABK before the completion of whatever workout / bailout / capital injection / bifurcation scheme is formally announced and the details delineated , just removes whatever credibility S&P had remaining in my opinion. It remains to be seen what Moody's does and when they choose to act... will they act now or wait until whatever rescue proposal for ABK is put forth ? Will Moody's downgrade despite the capital injection ? Stay tuned...
428 visitors online - is that a record??
I'm thinking this just reflects that the market will not let the bond insurers fail. Bank of America et al will keep pumping money into the monolines as needed since the cost of a complete ratings collapse is so much greater. Perhaps S&P understands this, and thus the AAA rating. "Too big to fail", in other words.
more and more people will be withdrawing from this market in light of the obvious continuing government manipulation of the markets in favor of the top 1% who own most of the stock market. sayonara.
Not a record, but a heavy turnout just the same.
this was as expected as anything. Got me some C on a discount today, right after the news (24.7, a loss right now), and I believe this will be a big bad bear rally (yes, I think C is POS).
Never discount the "up machine" of wallstreet. And beware of the bull, he's been at it for 20 some years.
We'll get back to shorting when the top is in place (C at 27? Dow 13500? Amzn 80? there will be lots of telltales)
Tacit collusio
Dow 18,000, here we come!
You can see the TAF numbers here
FRB: H.3 Release--Aggregate Reserves of Depository Institutions--December 3, 2009
The rating agencies credibility is clearly shot, but as they are legislatively protected as the only games in town, that probably doesn't matter in the short term.
But it begs a question: What liabilities do rating agencies have for their ratings? For example, can S&P be sued for negligence or something similar if they are found to be knowingly propping up false ratings?
ot even close- record is 724
Where's my retest of the Jan. 22 lows? Actually, I still expect one this week, particularly with weak financials.
The monolines will be bailed out one way or another anyway. No big news.
The RE market numbers are not as meaningful to me because regardless of the slump the desirable neighbourhoods seem to hold up almost fine. You can get deals in crappy areas. Not so great.
O-Joe
I guess S&P must have told them to hurry up and announce something before 2:15 so they had a reason/excuse to affirm.
Ambac: "We found a few dollars in the lobby sofa"
S&P: "AAA affirmed on capital infusion!"
Just delaying the eventual pain. Reminds me of pulling off a bandaid. You can either yank it off in one painfull pull and get it over with or slowly pull it off and suffer pain the entire time. I always go for the quick pain.
Hmmm... Wonder if the President's Working Group on Capital Markets had a conf call with S&P, to encourage them, ya know, a little persuasion?
I think this is the key line from the S&P opinion:
"MBIA's ability to raise $2.6 billion was ``a strong statement of management's ability to address the concerns relating to the capital adequacy of the company,'' S&P said."
This conmes as close as they dare to saying that the monolines are going to get bailed out, with public funds if need be, no matter what. It's the same sort of reasoning that allows crappy, but huge banks to keep the AAA - too big (or, in this case, important) to fail.
"Come... What else could we expect? The ratings agencies are going to give EVERY possible benefit of the doubt to the monolines since the implications of a downgrade are so huge (and the ratings agencies will get enourmous egg on their face as they downgrade tonnes of insured securities).
Just look at all the other downgrades that have happened: they only occur AFTER the asset has already lost it's value.
The monolines will be downgraded the day they actually shut their doors, not before. The ratings are just trailing indicators of actual business health."
Could not agree more. The whole ratings process has long lost any credibility....it's just that nobody cares as along as they can make money or think they can make money. What a sad pathetic debacle of the financial markets. It's foundation is constructed from willful ignorance, fraud and willful deception.
So far, I have seen nothing to dissuade me from the thesis that this plays out as the Japan scenario.
I want to see munis go up in price today as opposed to treasuries going down. If it happens, then this is meaningful. But I doubt it.
Financial strength? Huh?
to quote an ex-president, "this is the biggest fairy tale ever told."
Been there, done that ! Don't get too upset guys, remember 2000 ? Shorting was far from a walk in the park, Naz100 went from 5000 to 3000 then back to 4000 then down to 3000... then... ended up lower than 1500... lot of pain before any short was right ! Horrible worsening fundamentals are there, but this time the problems are so big that there is no way that Wall Street, the rating agencies and even the government will try to put this stuff up. But in th end reality will settle down... relax and enjoy Dow at 15,000 another opportunity to massively short this hysterically stupid market.
Spu's right on resisitance at 1375...
been a pretty good number to trade around last 12 months...
Thread music: Moldy Peaches
YouTube
- Moldy Peaches on The View
W T F?
And just where did the $2.6Bn come from?
A HELOC?
Zack Attack,
I was thinking the exact same thing with regard to Japan. This protects all the players and all the malignant tumors in their balance sheets.
Don't expect a depression--expect some of the weakest economic "growth" you've ever seen for years to come. It's a pity.
I can't wait...5 minutes from now Maria Bartiromo will come on CNBC and slobber about how great the world is....Bob pisani will say all the bad news out, "including the kitchen sink!"
Then next week another big blow up and there won't be a peep about their complete lack of credibility...
Jim Cramer's interesting take:
Rally on ABK News is Just Another Fakeout
By Jim Cramer
RealMoney.com Columnist
2/25/2008 3:23 PM EST
URL: Financial Investments and Stock Market Tips for Real Money - TheStreet.com
The Ambac (ABK) rescue plan makes me laugh, even as it totally drives the market with its backing by the agencies. A group of banks that are most directly related to the problems with ABK are bailing out ABK. You can't make this stuff up. That's like the insured insuring the insurers. Who can believe that, other than the agencies who are totally vested in keeping the AAA ratings because so much of their work on the actual stuff that is insured would not have worked without insurance.
The ones who have most to lose, who need to keep the ratings up off Ambac because of what they hold, are going to bail out Ambac, and people think this deal has credibility? I guess everyone is so desperate to preserve ABK's ratings that they will do anything. Remember though, the real issue here, as always, is house price depreciation; as long as you keep getting that you will keep getting these worries and declines. You will keep getting the writedowns.
Of course, this incestuous insured-insurance relationship is nothing new. The insurers also insure each other, not that we really know what's going on as the disclosure of these companies is so opaque that you just have a lot of guesses. That's because they have always been ridiculously regulated.
So, the rally that came because of the deal will be chimerical and must be sold. All over again.
It never ends. It will not end until the Fed cuts rates to where the net interest margin increases and the Fed guarantees those loans of struggling homeowners who live in homes, courtesy of my FHA plan.
Then this stuff will insure itself. But the time for that is a long way off, because the Fed failed to take aggressive action last year.
Just another fakeout. Sorry.
Now wouldn't it get interesting if Moody's comes out with a downgrade tomorrow.
I wonder if Ambac will shelve the "deal" now that they just got their rating affirmed without even raising the money. They can trot it back out in a couple of months to get their rating affirmed again.
Keep the game going, keep the game going. Need more smoke, mirrors...
Why do we still pay attention to these rating agencies? Fool me once,...
For one of the few times, I find myself in full agreement with Jim Cramer re: the above post from Duceswild. An odd feeling.
"Remember though, the real issue here, as always, is house price depreciation; as long as you keep getting that you will keep getting these worries and declines. You will keep getting the writedowns."
Cramer is saying only now what we've been saying on this board for quite some time.
House depreciation is everything.
O-Joe -
Regarding RE, I think Greenwich CT and Naples, FL - south western Naples - are 2 pretty desirable areas. Those markets have really started to crack and if you have a builder, speculator or estate sale there are plenty of deals to be had - although everyone there sees prices going lower so be careful. Good luck.
Backstopped by the US taxpayer. Yippie.
Example of downdraft for MBSs:
Washington Mutual (WM) Alt-A mortgage pool known as WMALT 2007-0C1
The total pool size is $513,969,100.
$476,069,000 rated AAA.
92.6% rated AAA.
15% of the pool is in foreclosure or REO
Great news!! Now let's bring on the insured losses and MBIA and Ambac can prove to the world how strong their balance sheets are.
Ratings agencies have almost always succeeded in defending litigation against them on first amendment grounds, claiming that they are merely authors expressing an opinion.
Vomit.
As the subprime investments continue to implode, the monolines will continue to deplete their reserves and require further capital infusions.
Somebody will be losing money bailing them out and as long as they do the credit markets will stay frozen.
This is going to be a bad recession.
So if you are a corporation with bonds and swaps approaching default now is the time to file your claim if AMBAC and MBIA are just fine.
Emirates Business24|7
Cramer is always wrong, you can almost take that to the bank. If he says the bailout of the bond insurers is a fake out then it must be the real thing.
Good News
MBIA Eliminates dividend!
5:08 PM MBIA Inc Eliminates Dividend >MBI Dow Jones Newswires
Page not found - - CNBC.com
Secondary market opening for auction rate preferred shares.
I don't see what the rush is. Whatever they should be they were AAA before and have more capital now. They will have higher capital ratios after a split supporting the 'bad' book.
It's a certainty that after a split, the legacy book will be downgraded. I think people would be thrilled to get the muni piece sorted out and to put a more realistic rating on structured finance.
Anyone thinking these dinky companies are all thats backing global capital markets are going to be disappointed.
If this preservation of the AAA rating kills the bail-out plan, then how far does that tank the market?
The preservation of AAA is dependent on the spitting schemes.
Of course, no one knows anything and this is just speculation. However, it is logical not to downgrade a company that is attracting capital. All the schemes involve new capital.
Swaps backers rush to prevent 'credit event'
Swaps backers rush to prevent 'credit event' - Financial Week
Like juggling hand grenades.
This is criminal negligence.
Off Watch but still on Outlook Negative. What crap!
Obviously, the system is at risk for such a transparently asinine action.
Old Mad Comic Strip
Takeoff on Mandrake the magician.
Caper over, Mandrecks girlfriend says all there is in the fridge is moldy Halvah.
No problem says the magician. The table is filled with a feast.
Later girlfriend is sated picking her teeth she says Thanks that was a great meal- but everything tasted like moldy halvah
Somehow this reminds me of a Monty Python skit.
We're all AAA now !
"About 132,000 municipal bonds were downgraded to "AA" from "AAA"
Page expired - MSN Money
Good reason to hold off doing a downgrade if the munis are going to be split out and the rating maintained for munis.
I don't understand what the issue is. Wouldn't you guys do the same thing the rating agencies are? If they are honest, the whole system goes to whack, if they lie then there is a chance things "work out". By work out I mean that the pendulum doesn't swing as far as it may the other way--which would be the oppossite of what happened to the home prices.
Ziggurat,
You are assuming tthat they can attract enough capital to offset approximately US$45-$150b of losses from their structured finance portfolio. How is that going to happen? I don't think shareholders are stupid enough to stump up that kind of money. You might as well wind up the company.
I've never seen a sacrifice play like this in the markets. Surely S&P must know that this is going get a chainsaw stuck up their butts and wreck what was left of their reputation. I wonder what it took to make them throw themselves before the train.
cd
Hey ...uh ...da king got no clothes.
Least I don't see um.
Guess dat guy who wrote
da Peter Principle had
da last laff.
Is that 2.6 bilyun, or trilyun ?
Don't get too upset guys.
rc helicopter
Tactical Flashlights
video game