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MLEC is dead.
Long live MLEC.
Next to prove ineffective and/or die: Hope Now
"dead" would seem to imply that something was, at one time, alive. Such is not the case for the SIV bail-out....thing.
Long Live teh Super SIV!!!
MLEC is dead.
Long live TAF.
We are all Super SIV now.
Is this actually news? I take that back, most people here probably believed the super SIV was actually do-able.
By a show of hands how many people think the FED can "print" money?
Marcus Aurelius, well, I guess we could say the plan is dead.
Best Wishes.
Dustdevil, I'll show you a hand, raised, with one finger extended.
M-LEC was always a joke to anyone with even the vaguest understanding of the underlying instruments and basic accounting. It never made a lick of economic sense.
Then again, SIVs never truly made economic sense, they were just a way to juice the books, taking advantage of lax accounting, secure in the knowledge that the Bush administration would do absolutely nothing about it.
Dr. strangmoney is right on the money. What is the difference between the proposed Super siv and the TIF?
They give you cash for the same allegedly valuable collateral no one else will buy from you.
so now the alternate plan seems to be to sell the US financial industry off to China, Dubai, Singapore and the Saudis.
In honor of this news bit, I must implore you all to sing along with my favorite financial analyst, Mr. Preston:
YouTube -
Good riddance and lets all hope it's not going to be like one of those Jason or Halloween movies..
Free association at work.
Combine this gem from an earlier post:
"We're seeing people who are current on their credit cards but are defaulting on their mortgages," Mr. Lewis says. "I'm astonished that people would walk away from their homes."
With this one from Gary:
"I'll show you a hand, raised, with one finger extended."
The zeitgeist du jour.
It's just a fleash wound...
"so now the alternate plan seems to be to sell the US financial industry off to China, Dubai, Singapore and the Saudis."
I'm going to start looking at job opportunities in the UAE.
It's just a flesh wound.
What I think is truly amazing is a person who can tie his shoes, knows his name, and assumablely can count thought this was a good idea to begin with...
I wonder who appointed him? Probably someone who has trouble with the tying the shoes part....
Dow +200 ----
Look at the volume -- was 120 million in the first 10 minutes of trading. On that scale there was practically no trading the rest of the day.
"so now the alternate plan seems to be to sell the US financial industry off to China, Dubai, Singapore and the Saudis."
And we are surprised? They're the ones with the money now.
Hey, baby, it isn't called a credit crunch for nothing.
OK, how about this free association:
forgot one.
Joe Public + brokeback mountain.
From the "No losses EVER" file... The DOW rallied 300pts on announcement of the Super Outhouse. Now the DOW rallies 200pts on the announcement that the outhouse wasn't deep enough to hold all the crap.
Well, maybe because the Super Outhouse in now the Fed, everyone is celebrating there's no limit to the amount of crap that Outhouse can hold... Contained to the Outhouse.
Off topic but I think we all knew the Super SIV was DOA. Remember Coventree from back in August. In the news again, and it's not good.
"ABCP woes make Coventree no longer viable..."
ABCP woes make Coventree 'no longer viable' - thestar.com
My favorite part of the WSJ article:
"But these people say that if conditions worsen, the banks could reactivate the fund in the future."
There is so much bad news out there that no one knows what to do with their money. Idiots should just sit tight and get their personal finances squared away. Instead they believe the pump monkeys on CNBS and are chasing bad money with good.
{
suckersRally; nothing more
}
{
suckersRally == Move along until the SHTF in '08
}
OT via ml-implode.com
Insurer Friends Provident has told investors in its £1.2bn property fund that they must wait to access their money because of a market downturn.
Half of mortgage lenders failed to pass interest cuts on to homebuyers
I never understood why Billy Preston opened for the Rolling Stones and not vice versa.
sbarrkum, in the UK, where variable interest rate products are very popular, there are two types: trackers, which track the relevant index eg the base rate, and standard variable, which do not. So this article is a little overly sensational, because anyone with sense picks the tracker. With the other product you are completely at the mercy of the lender to pass along any cut. And since they are all trying to make up costs...
CR and Tanta,
Had a look at the daily mail article on UK Mortgage rates
Maybe the CR site could be spiffed up like that. A dry comments with graphs surrounded by pics of half dressed celebritys.
Just a thought. You can see I am starting to have alot of time on my hands.
regards
I guess energy stocks are the latest bubble sector?
IYE
Funny how it works that in a world with so much leverage there's always a market hitting new highs.
It's almost as if that's necessary to maintain the leverage... like we have a bubble economy or something.
Superbowl SIV? Wait, checking my encyclopedia for Roman numeral "S"...
can't wait to see how they spin it.
The Fed and ECB have done a terrific job of ..... making the Super Siv an un-needed....
sbarrkum, I clicked on the link you provided.
Then, while trying to resize the window, I accidentally clicked near the right margin of the page.
This provided me with a full-length photo of the former Duchess of York in terrifying stockings.
I may forgive you someday.
AC - compare new highs to new lows over the last week ... it tells.
There is no NEW asset class, the shit sandwich has become too big. The write downs and money destruction from this mess has become close to 2 trillion, on the conservative side.
Run the numbers... we are in a world of hurt starting after x-mas.
My Eyes . . . MY EYES!!!!!
"By a show of hands how many people think the FED can "print" money?"
what do you call this: Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
?
I was born behind the whorehouse and repeatedly raped by my mothers pimp.
Tanta
Agree the stockings are bad. But Fergie doesnt look too bad, for a guy of my age. (anyway I dont look too great either)
Cant say that about Amy Winehouse. Dont even know who she is. Shows how often I read about celebritys.
regards
sbarrkum
SIVs are not dead, but morphing into:
Meet the Man-Cons - MarketBeat - WSJ
Mandatory convertible notes have become a savior for large banks looking for a quick and major liquidity boost to defend their balance sheets against the massive write-downs of the subprime meltdown.
Now that Morgan Stanley has joined recent mandatory-convertible issuers UBS and Citigroup, the emerging trend brings into view a perhaps-unintended window into the relative financial health of the respective issuers. And it should help immediately put in perspective the well-being of any other major financial institutions that join the club.
The Fed may or may not have trouble inflating our sorry butts out of this, but
the MLEC was not about money printing...it was about the final search for a greater fool.
I wonder what it's like living in a world where asset classes keep hitting their all time lows? probably not as much fun as this world.
Not long ago, they might have gotten away with M-LEC. It may be naive to think so, but the internet has provided a new outlet for thoughts that would never have gotten broad traction 10 years ago . . . hell, even 6-7 years ago.
Hmmm . . . not sure what the Man-Cons do for the issuers.
Make it look like they are raising capital via bonds, when they are really selling out the shareholders for a quick fix of high grade petro-bux?
There is no NEW asset class, the shit sandwich has become too big...
I dunno. I'm hearing a lot of buzz about this whole Internet thing. And the steep rise in the NASDAQ so far this year could really take off into next year.
So did we ever figure out the purpose of M-LEC? Stalling tactic or did they think it would actually work?
Knot - The fact that you think the FED can do anything is a problem. They print and the cost to service .gov debt RAMPS in direct proportion to print job. The yield curve doubles/triples/quadruples.
Where do they get the money to service the .gov debt? Tax increases? Tariff?
Read these:
Is There a Financial System Left To Speak Of? | LaRouchePAC
Minyan Mailbag: Puts vs. Shorts for Short-Term Trades-Minyanville
As some countries continue to accumulate US dollars from trade...... ultimately they want a bigger piece of meat from the wounded animal... as vultures circle.
WHOOPEE DEFICITS
Is Santa an arab riding in on a camel or an asian riding in on a rickshaw?
humph. As for assets hitting new highs. Well, I am sure there is a bull market somewhere else in the world. last I check precious metals were not exactly cratering, and seem to be maintaining their value quite nicely.
Dustdevil, wait until we start having to prime the pump with fiscal stimulus.
As for assets, well here in Phoenix, they are falling. But then I expect that will continue for quite a while, although gas still cost me $3.07 at Costco on Wednesday.
That doesn't seem to be falling either, and food won't trend down for quite a while.
Now, if I could eat my house and drive to work on my stocks;-}
Look for your opportunities, after all, in this crash there will be gold tossed out with the dross, just start panning for it.
Someday this war's gonna end...
Well, so much for the recession / financial meltdown of 2007.
Unfortunately for the bears, there won't be one in '08 either.
O-Joe
LOL Joe, you funny guy. Merry X-mas.
Allen - you're a funny fella too. Good luck with your bet... your going to need it, especially at your age.
Is Santa an arab riding in on a camel or an asian riding in on a rickshaw?
Uhhh . . . not quite. Riding in Mercedes and Rolls Royces, and flying in Learjets and private 747s.
And using Larouche to make a point is kind of silly, the Economist had a bunch of much better articles this week.
Friday night confessional, or shall we wait until New Year's Eve?
No big bank has gone under yet.
We are indeed waiting, but we might wait another six months. This crisis has entered a quiet pause while wall street celebrates xmas.
Options manipulations were amazing today. I watched a hot solar stock pin right where GS needed it to be to save their bacon, gee what are the odds?
As long as the casino is open and your money is available for the taking, dust, wall street is not broke.
Unhappy, much poorer, but not broke.
Look ma! 5% tax free!!
NAZ: Basic Chart for NUVEEN ARIZ PREM FD - Yahoo! Finance
See some better things may come out of this after all.
Someday this war's gonna end...
Alo, thanks for posting that, I hadn't seen before. And it also led me to that great clip of Mr. Preston singing My Sweet Lord at the Concert for George.
Gave me chills, and that's one of my LEAST favorite Harrison songs...
Well, being the cynical sort, I am certain the Bush administration will do whatever it can to talk up the economy, fudge economic stats, and forestall whatever fallout they can in 2008, and kick the can to January 2009. A recession will finish off whatever dim hopes the GOP has of holding the White House or getting any traction in Congress next year.
The question is, is the coming recession/inflationary tidal wave too much for the government to influence? I don't think a great depression is coming but I do think we're in for an extended period of economic malaise.
Hey, what about some of these big banks buying up small fish that are about to go belly-up as they are overrun by NPAs? Big fish consume the little fish and crap out their NPAs in the Super Outhouse?
Knot - The fact that you think the FED can do anything is a problem.
Hopefully more people will start to realize this.
The Fed has a set of tools that work in a 2-dimensional universe. They can basically make money available on easier terms.
But in the real world there is also this minor issue of economic structure -- i.e. the Fed can't really affect how the money is used.
Currently our economy is structured to create bubbles. So whenever the Fed uses its tools to "help" the economy, it basically just further enables this large-scale robbery of consumer wealth that's going on.
Speculators are simply better at benefiting from increased credit availability and liquidity than consumers. This is because an endless series of aggressive rate cuts whenever bubbles begin to burst has given this industry years and years of life to refine itself and grow more robust.
The Fed has kind of painted itself into a corner.
Yeah, O-Joe, no financial meltdown.
What were those silly bears thinking?
Following your lead, I loaded up on Financials. This has been a GREAT year! I mean, not GREAT in terms of profit, but otherwise owning WM, CFC, MS, BSC, MBI, etc. has been GREAT!
Looking forward to an even better '08!
I love living in your world. I'm happy, I'm prosperous (in a figurative sense), I'm untroubled.
Lead on, oh clear-eye optimist! The best of all worlds is here!
At my age- geez 41 is over the hill.
Dust the key is to own a bunch of things, some of which are going to suck at any given minute.
Others are going to be doing very well, depending on timing.
Buy low, sell high.
Problem is folks forgot to sell.
Like in LDK this week- nice highs at 70! Folks forgot to take some off the table. Tonight it is 45- and probably going to lather rinse and repeat this folly a couple of more times as Wall Street shakes the poor fools out of their hard earned money.
What do you own,Dust?
Where is your skin in the game?
Stewie rocks!
AllenM --
There will be some good "buy low" Arizona real estate opportunities, when the dead cat starts to float. Maybe this year, maybe next -- in the meantime, keeping the cash flow on an even keel is the top priority. I pulled $10k out of the HELOC yesterday -- it felt really bad, however necessary it may have been.
I'm genuinely confused.
What the bloody flip did people THINK was going to happen? Jawboning only works on the public, not on the private marketeers who fundamentally create credit.
They've known and willingly smiled (while making money) at Greenspan's futile attempt to avoid the Kondratieff winter by dropping rates to 1. He failed, just like Mellon failed in the 20's.
The only thing to do is take the pain by installing the proper regulation of the banking system, and put that regulation out of the hands of those parties who are being regulated. The Fed is mandated to regulate the creation of credit.. yet at the same time it's owned by the very banks it's purportedly regulating!
Conflict of interest much? Oh, the left-handed pimp slap I'll give Greenspan if I ever meet him. In certain cases, elderly abuse is warranted.
-ck-
I will probably be going to the tax lien sales in February to add to my lien portfolio.
I know, raising cash is so droll, so boring, so necessary.
Thank you citi for those new balance transfer good till payoff 3.9% checks.
So should I arb them in some boring tax free muni fund after the panic hits or should I hold off til feb?
i vote for waiting til feb.
Allen - Only if the muni bonds your funds purchased aren't insured by MBIA.
Zing!
OT
Circuit City Posts Huge 3Q Loss
Expired
"For the three months ended Nov. 30, Circuit City's losses ballooned to $207.3 million, or $1.26 per share, from $20.4 million, or 12 cents per share, a year ago.
Sales slipped 3 percent to $2.96 billion from $3.06 billion a year earlier, with sales at stores open at least a year falling 5.6 percent.
Analysts were clearly disappointed.
Chris Horvers from Bear Stearns asked Schoonover in the conference call if he had considered throwing in the towel and looking for a buyer. "It seems every quarter comes as surprise as to the amount of disruption," Horvers said."
Like I said, it's not a surprise to anybody who just walks around the store or tries to shop there.
Get this: "Circuit City also said it has received a commitment to more than double its $500 million credit line to $1.3 billion."
You think...Warburg?
Dead company crawling. Sympomatic of lower-end U.S. retail in general. The carnage in retail is coming to a mall near you January 1.
renato, we're on the same page . . . though at this point I think the Bush regime will be about as effective as Dastardly & Muttley.
Amazon.com: Dastardly & Muttley in Their Flying Machines - The Complete Series: Paul Winchell, Don Messick: Movies & TV
Tranches, glad to oblige -- and right on, Rich.
Unsyp- that is the reason why the return has so recently arose from the doldrums of 3.5%- a figure that I was loth to pay to my cat for lounging about.
I am waiting for 7-8 percent after the old folks panic.
Takes time to get the Sun City folks scared.
Did you get the irony of a dim-witted Bear analyst asking the CEO of CC if he thought of throwing in the towel and trying to find a buyer?
What buyer wants a towel?
Bear should know.
AllenM --
Any investment that doesn't come with FDIC insurance cannot be described as "boring".
Chase keeps sending those 3.9% checks, but after they jacked up the rate last time, I wiped out all remaining plastic debt with the HELOC. That felt great . . .
Citi did this five years ago- they pimped themselves with a 2.9% till paid off then which I took and promptly used to pay much higher debt.
I ran that a long long long way down till their is but chump change left on those cards, and yet here they are again, right after they got that nice foreign money at 12% offering me 3.9%.
Guess they didn't learn last time. Lather rinse repeat.
Amazing.
I think anything that was called "Frankenfund" from day 1 was DOA.
Dust Devil - Do you approach the market from a technical - fundamental - or some other point of view? I am purely technical - trend-following system. 42 sector funds. Of which almost exactly half are on sells (and have been for quite a while) - and half on buys (again for quite a while). The sectors which have been going up all year haven't been going up because of "sucker's rallies" (by which I guess you mean short covering rallies). They have good technicals - and good fundamentals IMO.
Tanta is probably right, I am a cheap sob that should not be allowed to victimize the financial resources of a nation, but hey, they mailed me the checks. I also pay after the first, which she did nail me on, but a fifteen day grace period is fifteen days.
Just have to watch the payment streams.
Dust- Schiff has a good take on the probable outcome of this fiasco:
FSU Editorial: "Not Your Father's Deflation" by Peter Schiff
12/21/2007
Note the problem comes with all of those dollars overseas that folks are rightly concerned might not be worth the same amount of oil or copper as a few years ago;-}
Fiat crisis with international reserve currency- a real humdinger in the theory books too.
I like how Krugman jokes he invented that part of the field in 1979 (see his google talk)
It's worth noting that Peter Schiff is a salesman of gold and foreign assets, and has been a big proponent of the decoupling theory (which, is beginning to show some strains now), but I think he does make a valid point about the political implications, even if they don't represent a guaranteed outcome as he seems to suggest. Maybe they do, at least, merit concern. My guess is no outcome is inevitable:
The big problem politically is that hyper-inflation may superficially appear to be the lesser evil. If asset prices are allowed to collapse, ownership of those assets will pass to our creditors. If instead we repay our debts with debased currency, we retain ownership of our assets and shift the losses to our creditors. Since American debtors can vote in U.S. elections and foreign creditors can not, the choice seems obvious. Of course there are some American creditors as well, but since they comprise such a small percentage of the electorate, my guess is that their losses will be seen as acceptable collateral damage.
I spent so much time looking for those stockings that I forgot what this thread is about. I guess it's time to quit.
Subprime MBS -- dead
CDO -- dead
SIV -- dead
CDS -- ?
calvert | 12.21.07 - 5:58 pm | #
I think I going to be reading the Daily Mail from now on.
How can you not prefer stories like Howl Hitler to Super SIV is dead.
Allen - Peter Schiff is wrong here.
YOU CAN'T MONETIZE THESE LOSSES.
If I told you that every major bank in the US was insolvent, what would you say? We are facing losses of 2 trillion or more.
They print and the cost to service .gov debt RAMPS in direct proportion to print job. The yield curve doubles/triples/quadruples.
Where do they get the money to service the .gov debt? Tax increases? Tariff? They can't force people to buy T's.
rich said: "I never understood why Billy Preston opened for the Rolling Stones and not vice versa."
Hey, Hendrix opened for the Monkees once upon a time.
Like I keep saying: No historical perspective for what constitutes "bad.":)))
S.
Subprime MBS -- dead
CDO -- dead
SIV -- dead
Bond insurance -- dead
Cheap mortgages -- dead
Cheap energy -- dead
Consumer trust in the financial system -- dead
U.S. automobile industry -- dead
CDS -- ?
Dustdevil,
You are so right.
They print and the Social Security/Medicare crisis of 2035 becomes the Social Security/Medicare crisis of 2015.
People will soon find out if Bernanke and the Fed govs care about the children and grandchildren of this country, or just saving their own skins.
I'm betting on children and grandchildren.
Paulson's thoughtful holiday "gift" had exchange written all over it.
I never understood why Billy Preston opened for the Rolling Stones and not vice versa.
rich | 12.21.07 - 4:23 pm | #
Didn't Preston sing:
"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing"
Sounds like an apt obit for the Super-SIV.
Probably old news, but since CR's version of Hail mary financial prayer is on page A14 of WSJ my guess is we've probably his bottom.
Stocks jumped Friday following a better-than-expected rise in profits at Research in Motion Ltd. and on word that Merrill Lynch may have lined up a big cash infusion from a Singapore fund.
Americans seem to think these "rescues" are free of charge. Well the don't notice the costs at once, just as they never realized that six month later they wouldn't be able to pay their mortgage installments.
"Americans seem to think these "rescues" are free of charge. Well the don't notice the costs at once, just as they never realized that six month later they wouldn't be able to pay their mortgage installments."
Hey - they might think they'll win the Lottery!
Then, while trying to resize the window, I accidentally clicked near the right margin of the page.
Tanta | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 4:42 pm | #
I accidently clicked it...twice.
Hmmmm...
Many knowledgeable people like you had questioned the feasibility of Super-SIV. Since the announcement about its creation, the FED had loaned more and more money to banks against lower grade collateral. Now Fed has gone to unlimited TAF that even removes the stigma. With all this money flowing in who needs the Super-SIV?? Isnt FED acting instead of super SIV and funding the banks?? Isnt that sinister??
Thanks for financial education.
I don't think a great depression is coming but I do think we're in for an extended period of economic malaise.
rnato, like a virgin | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 5:17 pm | #
Thank god for malaise - what with all this dried-up turkey laying around...
Turkey Malaise? Does that taste something like Veal Putanesca?
The most consistent investment theme of 2007 is that the stock market overreacted to anything that sounded like good news and discounted anything negative.
Is RIM more important than MBIA and Circuit City? No, but the market thinks so.
If you knew this trend with hindsight, you would have invested differently.
The market has generally been a pretty good leading indicator. Not this year. It's been a super-lagging indicator and you can chalk that up mainly to a combination of hype-media and hedge funds that worship volatility.
But volatility works both ways. The trend will revert to the mean and the market will once again become a leading indicator, at some point. When that time happens, I feel sorry for longs.
They will print dustdevil- they must!
That is where your entire thesis fails.
We will print money, hand over fist to meet our obligations.
Every dollar spent by the federal government in excess of tax receipts is basically new money.
And we have spent it prodigiously.
Where do you think those vast foreign reserves came from?
Check out the growth in dollar foreign reserves over the last three decades- is all that money going to disappear in this little fiasco?
Nope. They can take the debt on the books at 80 cents on the dollar and that is that.
To argue otherwise is to simply ignore the last 30 years of bailouts.
Not to say a few investors won't be destroyed, but if you start talking millions of voters, there will be action, and houses after the flippers are burned out represent voters.
FIAT FIAT FIAT-
get it through your head, it is all fiat. Blips on the computers.
That is why the dollar has been steadily depreciating since Bush too k office- Deficits don't matter in the SHORT RUN- but they Cheney has a frickin pacemaker- his long run was only 10 years when he got elected.
Money, real money, can't be so easily destroyed, but what we call money is only the full faith and credit of the United States, and as faith recedes, well, just credit.
Walker is sounding alarm bells because the CRISIS has already started!!!
Now, we return to our regularly scheduled asset implosion- which is quite separate from our soon to be inflation.
Just watch.
Who needs a Superfund when the world is shoving money at the banks? I ask the question whether all the convenient cash infusions from foreign countries may be a money front for the FED to bail out the banks? I think it is easy to imagine the FED guranteeing these infusions as a way to hide their actions.
/sniff
I'm gonna miss that guy, Super-sewer we barely got to know ya.
Perhaps they can use the big trench...errr..subway they're trying to build from LA to Santa Monica.
Cheers,
Seems related somehow:
Dr Gábor Orosz of the University of Exeter said: ...Our model shows that overreaction of a single driver can have enormous impact on the rest of the traffic, leading to massive delays.
Drivers and policy-makers have not previously known why jams like this occur, though many have put it down to the sheer volume of traffic. While this clearly plays a part in this new theory, the main issue is around the smoothness of traffic flow. According to the model, heavy traffic will not automatically lead to congestion but can be smooth-flowing. ...
Dr Orosz continued: When you tap your brake, the traffic may come to a full stand-still several miles behind you. It really matters how hard you brake - a slight braking from a driver who has identified a problem early will allow the traffic flow to remain smooth. Heavier braking, usually caused by a driver reacting late to a problem, can affect traffic flow for many miles. ...
Its now fairly clear that the MLEC was put together by the Treasury to save Money Market Funds. This was the governments primary concerns. Money Market Funds and similar funds are the holders of the $300 billion+ of SIV debt. I think we need to remember this fact while discussing the plans death. So what happens now? A lot of the SIVs are now being supported by their bank sponsors but there are a lot more out there that will be doing some real damage. For example, Victoria Finance was downgraded from Aaa to Baa by Moodys today. Thats $6 billion of formally Aaa debt on the way down to default. Weve seen Evergreen, Wamco, SEI, Columbia, SunTrust, and First American all have to have to write huge checks to bail out SIV-infested Money Market funds to prevent the breaking of the buck. The situation in Florida fund is a disaster. There will be more of this and it could get uglier. There is a good change of some Money Market fund holding SIVs not getting bailed out. Id check on the fund you are in. SIVs like K2 and Links are still sitting out there. And do not forget about Sigma. This SIV is over $50 billion and it has no bank sponsorship. A lot of the large money funds like Federated and Fidelity are sitting on huge Sigma holdings.
A little off topic, but apropos of the UK real estate fund freeze:
I have been moving money from my equity funds to money markets/savings accounts. I beleive CNBC commented on this phenomenon this morning; their spin was invenstors were waiting on the sidelines and looking for an opportunity to come back into the market. Actually, I expect a recession and am moving cash to safe haven to avoid what happened in 2001.
Anyways, lots of funds have been limiting redemptions. After moving a lot out of ny SP 500 index with Vanguard, I got hit with a 90 hold on future redemptions. TIAA-CREF has imposed limits on redemptions from its real estate fund (which I avioded, thank God). Anyone having similar experiences.
I realize that you had scoffed at the SIV plan, and therefore it is no surprise, but I think this is nevertheless an ominous development. The last underpinnings of confidence are now falling.
The question now is: What happens next, and when?