From the FT article... The bubble in the US housing market will spread to other states as prices continue to rise, American Express predicted on Tuesday.

CR - there are sellers up and down my block who are waiting for this damned bubble to show up so they can cash out too... some of these houses have been for sale for over a year. It has been like waiting for Gadot.

While I think some of the bubble will spread out here - especially to major metro areas like Chicago & Minneapolis & St Louis... it won't ever be like the coasts. Just not enough bubble to go around.

I think it is risky to project conditions uniformly... it is crazy for me in my modest Midwest River Town to project my world to what is going on in NYC or San Fran or OC... But it is just as crazy for those folks to understand what it is like out here. Theyare from Mars, we are from Hooterville...

I had friends who had never been to the middle of the country except for airports... they lived in the Tide Water area and had never driven farther west than the Appalachians... the guy was 40ish too.

I gave him a bunch of crap - told him he needs to take a road trip... and get off interstates too... wander the country for a couple weeks or even a month. Then send me the full report... until then shut it.

He finally did it and after that understood why pricing & conditions in Tide Water Virginia are so very different from say Chadron Nebraska.

The folks at American Express ought to visit America before making predictions like that.

I believe that John Calverley, chief economist at American Express, has it wrong.

It's too late for a big spread. Too many people are wise to it at this point.

People on the coasts may continue to party, but that's where the dumbness will stop.

I am a international student who transfer from bay area to Davis, which is nearby Sacamento.
I lived in the bay area during 2002~2004. I believe the bubble will not bust when people expect U.S. economy grow.

I've been waiting for it to burst for years.

Been wrong so far.

No Bubble just cheap money chasing after a hot commodity. If there were truly a bubble then in order for it to pop the interest rates would have to rise to at least 8 percent for conventional 30 year fixed rate loans and... mind you all and there would need to be a significant downturn in the economy this has never happened when rates were increasing and... the amount of land available to build on would need to increase - where is this land BFE.

I purchased a home last month and it is already worth 50k more Smile

If you do not buy a house in this market forget about it in the next few years. You will be like Cali, New York, Boston or D.C. SOL Sad

However the folks in these area will still have an ATM in the form of imagined home equity to purchase more toys!!! Like my condo in Mexico for 75k cash where I do not owe anyone at all and can retire in.

Yoda

Became a SF Bay Area home owner in 1962, first time, and have thought the housing market here has been in a continuous bubble state ever since. In some places the bubble can last longer than you can.
Hell if you are young, take the plunge, if things go to hell so many people will be in trouble the gov will have to bail you out. People like me will have to pony up the money.
Enjoy.

LOL - Yoda is no Jedi... Yoda is a realtor or realto wannabe.

Secondly you say your house is worth $50K more? According to WHO... you have a firm offer, signed & waiting for close? Even then until the offer closes you don't know squat about what your home is 'worth'... no one does.

I have family in the Bay Area too and homes are no longer moving in their neighborhood - a few have sold but very few and most of those to speculators who aren't planning to live in them. Granted they live in the South Bay where a lot of job loss has been... But my family has no idea anymore what their property is worth because the 'stall' has hit... maybe start heading up again and maybe not. Hard to say but those are the facts in their area.

Maybe you want to make some big money and drive down San Jose way and start snapping up some of those bargains... you can get them for $50K more than they are asking I bet.

Dogbert said... Hell if you are young, take the plunge, if things go to hell so many people will be in trouble the gov will have to bail you out. People like me will have to pony up the money.

That is exactly what my neice & her husband did... bought a 'fixer upper' in the South Bay area somewhere - not sure what community but just north of San Jose heading toward SF... lotsa families... they bought 1 Ba 2 BR for a little under $600K or so. They put way less than $100K down... something like $50K. I was told they took out an I/O ARM that they pay principal down on voluntarily... and so far they have... we'll see how long that lasts as rates go up.

They can't afford this home but who can in this market. Both work, both worry but they have kids and the apartment situation was pretty iffy... and no one would give them a long term lease on a home (rents are so much lower than the cost to own them... landlords are losing their ass... who would want to lock that in for 3 years).

I told them...

"If you plan on living in the Bay Area forever... take the plunge but have a contingency plan... ie hold more cash on hand than you normally would so as to be able to make payments through job upheavals should they happen..."

"But if you are planning on moving in the next 5 years or sooner... don't buy... there is a high risk that you won't be able to get out with any equity".

They bought but still plan to move back to the Midwest in 2-3 years when the kid gets to school age... everyone else in the family is laughing... "Ya sure, you bet."

They only way they come back is if they lose the home and need to crash & rebuild. Stories like this will be repeated across this country when the bubble pops.

Someone who bought two or more years ago in a hot area has already seen enough appreciation to convert a 100% interest only loan into a conventional 80% fixed mortgage. Those who bought a little earlier may already be higher than any future drop in prices. Even speculators who have traded a time or two have probably made more than they would lose in a downturn. Those living on the edge leveraged to the hilt late to the party ones may take a hit, but easy come, easy go.

Just a thought... seeing the housing bubble and wondering whether people out to make money are somehow thinking about going short in real estate. Selling property (developments, future homes) which you do not own yet...

Dry Fly is laughing at his own family why so pessimistic? Oh by the way the house next to mine sold for 70k more than mine on the market for 2 days! My house is larger on a nicer lot so when I stated 50k more I was being conservative. I always have investors knocking on my door offering me at least 30k more than I paid for my home cash. Yes cash, so Dry Up - Dry Fly...

Dry Fly is laughing at his own family why so pessimistic?

Yoda - if you have cash to pay for million dollar homes - you won't have trouble - people like you are rare. You'll do fine.

People like my 20 something neice are adifferent matter. They are trying to start a family and buying a $600K starter home with almost nothing down... with an I/O ARM is in serious trouble. We laugh because it is too disturbing to cry in front of them.

If this bubble POPS and it will... they will have only one 'out'... Hope they keep their jobs and hope interest rates don't climb too much or hope the market rebounds before their ballon comes due... before the I/O part shifts into full amortization. They can't make those payments if the rates go higher. They will either need to refi or sell and unless things rebound quickly they will get caught.

They are gambling on a scale compared to their resources none of us can imagine. When folks gamble very few win.

Just a thought... seeing the housing bubble and wondering whether people out to make money are somehow thinking about going short in real estate. Selling property (developments, future homes) which you do not own yet...

Cor - there are supposedly 'RE vulture funds' forming now... pooling cash. I've read about them in places like Vegas & Maimi... but I would be very cautious. They are the RE equivalent of 'short funds'... pretty risky business.

But I know people with money who are doing it privately... who have liquidated most of their RE holdings already (except for private residences) and are waiting and watching. Like Yoda they have cash - or short term paper they can liquidate fast. They will do very well I am sure just like their parents and grandparents before them.

And having patience and buying low is the key. One of my fathers friends just sold $25 million in land he bought for $50K in the middle to early 70s. It was a small distressed farm outside the Twin Cities in the middle of the 70s recession... now slated for development. My fathers friend had cash and snapped it up and sat on it until now. Now is NOT the time to buy.

Dry Fly - Indeed very wise you are....

Lets say that your niece is gambling, very young she is I assume she still has time to recover.

In 1985 I took a risk and joined the Marines in order to pay for my education. I was injured in the Gulf War in 1991 and was given educational assistance to earn my MBA. During the dot.com era I worked for a fiber optics company and was taking every penny I could squeeze and invested in I.T. I got lucky and got out just before it caved in - took all of my investments and rolled them into RE five years ago and just recently sold all my houses except my current residence and property in Mexico.

I am 38 and retired buy and sell houses cash if I see a new development I buy in early and sell at settlement with several thousand dollars in return.

This housing gift (not Bubble) is not at all like the I.T. crash - I have been very lucky and fortune favors the bold.

Thanks but my parents and grandparent never had a break or a pot to you know in. I made it through good old hard work, determination, risk , and just plain old luck.

Your comments are very astute I read on this thread and others but you cannot tell me there is a bubble. This is just the media saying the same old bs when the poor overcome the obstacles put in place by the so called experts etc.

Wish your niece well, be a pillar for her to lean on, be there for her when she is down and love unconditionally and things will work out for her.

Have some faith that sometimes in life things do not turn out the way they did in the past.

I wish you and her all the best.

Yoda

Lets say that your niece is gambling, very young she is I assume she still has time to recover.

'Young, dumb, and happy' as they say here in the Midwest. They can start over. Many of us have myself included.

That is why I'm not really too worried for them... they are gambling like crazy and will probably lose considering how they positioned themselves and when. As your case points out - timing is everything. Their timing could not have been worse. You were smart to sell most of the properties - you'll have unbelievable opportunities to buy cheap again and maybe soon. Cash is always king.

But my niece will survive - we see her in the Midwest when they come back and visit them out on the coast when in the area and they know we all have spare rooms and extra food on the table... they won't go cold or hungry even if the poop flies... so maybe with that in perspective... it isn't such a gamble.

Great perspective!!! Ohana - This means family in Hawaii...

Everything for the family

Cheers!

Yoda

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