Is there some assumption out there that non-subprime losses are not real?
This happens a lot - lots of people don't include the Alt-A, Option ARM or old fashion ARM loans, made to people with decent FICO scores, when they are talking about "the subprime problem".
Witness the amazement at the recent IMF graph showing that the "1st reset" horror extends not thru 2009 but all the way thru 2011. It is only the "true subprime" stuff that ends in 2009, w/ alt-a and option arm happening in 2010 or 2011 (though the option arms could recast sooner, based on over-principal limits and everybody making minimum payments - see Tanta's UberNerd series for the amazing gyrations of the Option ARM mortgage.)
Hey, all it takes to get a decent FICO score is to pay all your credit card bills on time for 2 years - that is it! I went from 561 to 742 in 2 years with no other changes. (Well I paid down the cards too.) Shocked the hell out of me when the mortgage guy ran my credit reports.
But if someone used the the I/O payment of an ARM or a neg am payment of an Option ARM or the initial payment of teaser rate ARM to qualify on their house payment at 5x or 8x or more of their income, a hi FICO isn't going to help them at all.
The decline in the subprime mortgage market is over'' because the marketwent to zero and cannot go any further,'' Greenspan said at a conference in Oslo, Norway, today. He added that the conventional'' mortgage market isdoing reasonably well.''
You have to scroll down to the bottom of the article but it's official.
I used to respect Greenspan, he understood the Credit cycle, he knew exactly what he was doing in 1991-1995 when he rebooted the banking system. He even talks about it (obliquely) in a 1997 speech.
But he's either gone senile or he's in denial and trying to maintain his reptuation for posterity.
Greenspan in 1991-1995 bascially got rid of the reserve requirments by allowing sweeps. What happens when you can leverage to the moon? Try the tech crash. Credit use to have some stability but Greenspan removed that to divert a recession to make it much worse a later date.
Investors went bargain-hunting in light trading on Black Friday, as consumers sought holiday deals in stores.
Not "Days with light trading are a great way to make money blasting borrowed money into the futures market." Don't want to dissuade the dumb money from trying their hand at the game, or worse yet, give them some clue as to the rules. It's a cultural thing, ya know. Let's all model our ethics after Greenspan.
You don't stand a chance - the term will live on, like microchip did. Oh, people will understand that subprime wasn't really just subprime but also Alt-A, Option ARM, 100% LTV and the rest of it but the label will live on.
I used to respect Greenspan, he understood the Credit cycle, he knew exactly what he was doing in 1991-1995 when he rebooted the banking system. He even talks about it (obliquely) in a 1997 speech.
But he's either gone senile or he's in denial and trying to maintain his reptuation for posterity.
This guy knows exactly what the hell is going on. That's why I call him a sociopath and I suspect why Ayn Rand accused him of being a social climber.
Remember Greenspan was the one say "Recession by the end of 2007, but not really."
The guy ran responsible monetary policy until he discovered it wasn't winning him any popularity contests.
The establishment would have us believe that it is about "them". There's a handful of reasons why sp borrowers happened to default first, but they have little to do with FICO scores (which define subprime):
-subprime borrowers had no access to neg-am re-fi's (otherwise known as "forbearance on a massive scale").
-two-thirds of subprime was stated income, which is the strongest predictor of default, IMO.
-From the total 2004 ARM vintage, subprime ARM's reset first.
-subprime borrowers are disproportionately from bubble states, esp. CA; they therefore depended more on HPA to provide cash-out funds for mortgage payments.
"The guy ran responsible monetary policy until he discovered it wasn't winning him any popularity contests."
This is presicely at the heart of the issue. All restraint has been set aside in the name of political expediency. The banquet of consequences will be a feast.
Sub-prime can be used as a code word. One use is "too stupid to do business with".
Lets face it, lots of working class people that didn't get overly greedy walked away with a couple million $ houses.
There's no question in my mind that Greenspan prevented a systemic banking failure in the early 1990s, I was watching closely. You may remember that people like Ross Perot and James Grant were publicly short on Citibank (which, in fact, was insolvent at the time).
I understand what he tried to do. He thought that if he lowered rates below the true rate of economic growth, then the general population would be able to recover from the debt bubble.
What he didn't count on was that people were already highly conditioned to borrow based on prior Fed actions which perpetuate inflation. So instead of consolidating their current position, the general public went on an even wilder borrowing spree.
It's possible to salvage the current bubble but Bernanke would have to drive down rates to Japanese levels. I'm not sure he can. Assuming he can, I'm not sure he will. And if he does, I'm doubtful if it would be timely enough now.
"All restraint has been set aside in the name of political expediency"
Greenspan chose to shift current insolvable problems into future current insolvable problems.
I probably would have done the same.
Most people would have.
It's the nature of people and our system. There's definitely a "yes man" dynamic going on in my industry. You just get tired of fighting it after all, of being punished for trying to do what's right.
Lets face it, lots of working class people that didn't get overly greedy walked away with a couple million $ houses.
And yet the security cameras didn't catch that?
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
On Greenspan, I think at some point around 1996 or 1997 he decided that the Fed should only provide a floor to economic growth, instead of both a floor and a ceiling. This was his big mistake, and the housing bubble is basically the consequences of him scrambling to cover his ass.
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Nevermind the kind of steroid abuse that involves.
Credit growth for housing and consumption declined 40% (YoY) in august and september.
Home sales are, thus, declining at a very fast pace. The economy is also slowing (GDP growth:4,1%-3,8% GDP in the last quarter) and steeper decline every month.
his loss may have started the whole bubble ball rolling
No, it's an illusion that it started recently. It's the Credit cycle. Technically, it started seventy years ago.
But it's an exponential function so it comes on really, really strong towards the end.
Read up on "Kondratieff wave".
There's some demographics sprinkled in there, too, but we're probably entering the same type of period that the Japanese entered in 1990 and the Russians enterned in 1989.
Broward's got it right, but only if Congress will do its share and tighten fiscal policy. 2% Fed Funds rate combined with a $200 billion gov't surplus (mostly thru higher taxes). That's what we need. Simple answer.
I don't know whether or not we can get a reading on how strong the consumer is based on how hyped up the media frenzy was about today's pathetic anecdotal account of store sales. What we can learn though is that our society desperately needs a heavy dose of moderation. I was finally prepared to get that well desrved message, but it hasn't come. America is delusional. We still suffer greatly from the massive illusion. This implies to me the coming recession will be that much worse.
The only way it is about subprime is that this is where some of the money created during the real estate inflation was injected into the economy.
It stopped being about subprime when the hedge funds were able to leverage the 2% ARM teaser rates to 20 or 30% returns, aided and abetted by the ratings company and investor greed.
At least in sonoma county "Subprime"= THEM=Hispanics,at least so far...and it is not subtle.In Oakland and the east bay i suspect the "THEM" will be blacks,and in wealthy waspy areas probably the Rothschilds or the Illuminati.I personally think that if people just weren't so dang Human we wouldn't have these problems.
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Well, at the height of the lunacy, a million dollar house was manufactured out of popsicle sticks. Fools! They left the land! They're not making any more land! They should have carried the dirt away, too!
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Not saying that it is right, but you know it happened.
Initially people backed into it, in the sense that they really were just looking for a decent place to live and raise their kids, and then saw the gravy laying there for the taking as well as the tax incentives. Late in 03 or early in 04 it became obvious that the gig was up because you had people unable to balance a checkbook buying upscale housing.
The reason I mention it is that the idea that borrowers are victims is totally bogus. They are at least as crooked as the people writing the loans.
Many that now whine had the same opportunities, but rather then using the increased equity to pay down debt, they blew it on cheap garbage from China or useless chrome plated chariots.
Hold on, here, folks. This is the same guy who was a major investor in New Century Financial until just before its complete bust. Hotter Seats Than They Bargained For
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post, I'm talking about people that walked away with the houses almost paid off and sold at the top of the market.
"2% Fed Funds rate combined with a $200 billion gov't surplus (mostly thru higher taxes)."
I can't even comment on the sillyness of this. Please explain the logic of how the problem of a debt ridden economy is going to be solved by further eviscerating the dollar whilst at the same time increasing plunder on the productive sector?
Oh yes, we all know it ain't subslime. But really folks, it is all contained. That's what all our elite uber rich rulers told us. It's just them poor folk who took loans they couldn't afford. Bah... I'm depressing myself again.
Subprime over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!...What the f--k happened to the CR I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh?
'Ooh, we're afraid to go with you, Tanta, we might get in trouble.' Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Greenspan, he's a dead man! Paulson, dead! Bernanke...
p.s. Neal, thanks for posting that Fafblog, I wanted to know that soon everyday will be Xmas. HaloScan.com - Comments
Please explain the logic of how the problem of a debt ridden economy
See "Japan circa 1990-2005". The debt bubble could be sustained by lowering rates to a new low. This would reduce interest payments enough so that even subprime borrowers could keep up their payments.
That's really what's sustained the stock market and real estate since 1982. Long-term rates have steadily declined since the "state change" from the inflationary 1970s, i.e the "Reagan" recession.
"They are at least as crooked as the people writing the loans."
I agree, both were partying with OPM (Other Peoples Money, pronounced opium), however, one side of that trade had the resources to know better, and the other only had CR. I blame both for stupidity, but I blame the one with the resources a bit more.
Tanta,
They told me I didn't, when I came to the US they told me my degrees were useless and I had to work as a car mechanic.
Now the joke is on them, math is math.
And you project yourself as a member of the industry. I can now understand why.
"The debt bubble could be sustained by lowering rates to a new low."
Really? Well I guess if you were a prudent citizen in Japan at the time and watched your savings investment decline to essentially nothing, as the gov't robbed you to pay the uber rich ruling elite, and were happy about it, then that was good.
By the by, you may have noticed that at the time the Japanese had the highest savings rate in the world. Whilst US citizens have a negative savings rate. Doesn't matter?...I think it does.
I was also unaware that the YEN was the globe's reserve currency. I've heard that it was the dollar. So pop up a few posts and re-read my entire comment.
Yes, it's pathetic to keep hearing the "problem" labeled the "subprime problem." By the way, I'm the "Bill" who actively trades options, often on the bearish put side. I've added a "D" to my name to keep thing straight, as the comments above from "Bill" are not mine.
RE Krugman piece
This could be called Banks gone Weiled. It was Billy Clinton and his friend, Bobby Rubin, who said: banks, anything you want to do is okay.
It is Billy and Bobby responsible for the current meltdown that gave permission to the pigs to do what pigs do best. Oink, Oink, bankers, Republicans. Oink, oink, and screw the poor folks who bought into their newly allowed methods of rape and pillaqe.
And America could, if we democrats aren't smart, have Billy's hubristic wife as president!!!
Not sure we are taking advice from him, but his comment about how cheap money was is a point a lot of people miss when they focus on just the lax standards. A lot of lending companies would still be in business if they had the appropriate operating margins built into their plan which would have helped some absorb losses.
Bravo
At least they don't call them junk bonds.
(well, at least they didn't used to)
At least they don't call them junk bonds.
Hey there buddy, In today's new environmentally conscious world, junk can be recycled
Is there some assumption out there that non-subprime losses are not real?
This happens a lot - lots of people don't include the Alt-A, Option ARM or old fashion ARM loans, made to people with decent FICO scores, when they are talking about "the subprime problem".
Witness the amazement at the recent IMF graph showing that the "1st reset" horror extends not thru 2009 but all the way thru 2011. It is only the "true subprime" stuff that ends in 2009, w/ alt-a and option arm happening in 2010 or 2011 (though the option arms could recast sooner, based on over-principal limits and everybody making minimum payments - see Tanta's UberNerd series for the amazing gyrations of the Option ARM mortgage.)
Hey, all it takes to get a decent FICO score is to pay all your credit card bills on time for 2 years - that is it! I went from 561 to 742 in 2 years with no other changes. (Well I paid down the cards too.) Shocked the hell out of me when the mortgage guy ran my credit reports.
But if someone used the the I/O payment of an ARM or a neg am payment of an Option ARM or the initial payment of teaser rate ARM to qualify on their house payment at 5x or 8x or more of their income, a hi FICO isn't going to help them at all.
bobn,
Not to mention cov-lite loans. Some of those will implode probably in 2010-2011.
Oh thank heavens.
The decline in the subprime mortgage market is over'' because the marketwent to zero and cannot go any further,'' Greenspan said at a conference in Oslo, Norway, today. He added that the conventional'' mortgage market isdoing reasonably well.''
You have to scroll down to the bottom of the article but it's official.
U.S. Stocks Advance; Circuit City, Target, Boeing Lead Gains - Bloomberg.com
I used to respect Greenspan, he understood the Credit cycle, he knew exactly what he was doing in 1991-1995 when he rebooted the banking system. He even talks about it (obliquely) in a 1997 speech.
But he's either gone senile or he's in denial and trying to maintain his reptuation for posterity.
Very sad.
Broward, it's quite simple: when you used to respect Greenspan, you were mistaken.
Greenspan in 1991-1995 bascially got rid of the reserve requirments by allowing sweeps. What happens when you can leverage to the moon? Try the tech crash. Credit use to have some stability but Greenspan removed that to divert a recession to make it much worse a later date.
I guess all the PPT people are on vacation today?
In any case it's always bargain hunting:
Investors went bargain-hunting in light trading on Black Friday, as consumers sought holiday deals in stores.
Not "Days with light trading are a great way to make money blasting borrowed money into the futures market." Don't want to dissuade the dumb money from trying their hand at the game, or worse yet, give them some clue as to the rules. It's a cultural thing, ya know. Let's all model our ethics after Greenspan.
Subprime is about them - those people and the foolish people that made loans to them.
Very insightful.
So in order to eradicate the "Subprime" label, we have to come up with a single-word catchphrase that sums up the whole mess and is easily remembered.
How about borrowing (pun intended) from the politicians: "loangate".
You don't stand a chance - the term will live on, like microchip did. Oh, people will understand that subprime wasn't really just subprime but also Alt-A, Option ARM, 100% LTV and the rest of it but the label will live on.
But is this a false meme or a misnomer ?
Misnomer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
-K
I used to respect Greenspan, he understood the Credit cycle, he knew exactly what he was doing in 1991-1995 when he rebooted the banking system. He even talks about it (obliquely) in a 1997 speech.
But he's either gone senile or he's in denial and trying to maintain his reptuation for posterity.
This guy knows exactly what the hell is going on. That's why I call him a sociopath and I suspect why Ayn Rand accused him of being a social climber.
Remember Greenspan was the one say "Recession by the end of 2007, but not really."
The guy ran responsible monetary policy until he discovered it wasn't winning him any popularity contests.
The establishment would have us believe that it is about "them". There's a handful of reasons why sp borrowers happened to default first, but they have little to do with FICO scores (which define subprime):
-subprime borrowers had no access to neg-am re-fi's (otherwise known as "forbearance on a massive scale").
-two-thirds of subprime was stated income, which is the strongest predictor of default, IMO.
-From the total 2004 ARM vintage, subprime ARM's reset first.
-subprime borrowers are disproportionately from bubble states, esp. CA; they therefore depended more on HPA to provide cash-out funds for mortgage payments.
"The guy ran responsible monetary policy until he discovered it wasn't winning him any popularity contests."
This is presicely at the heart of the issue. All restraint has been set aside in the name of political expediency. The banquet of consequences will be a feast.
Sub-prime can be used as a code word. One use is "too stupid to do business with".
Lets face it, lots of working class people that didn't get overly greedy walked away with a couple million $ houses.
There's no question in my mind that Greenspan prevented a systemic banking failure in the early 1990s, I was watching closely. You may remember that people like Ross Perot and James Grant were publicly short on Citibank (which, in fact, was insolvent at the time).
I understand what he tried to do. He thought that if he lowered rates below the true rate of economic growth, then the general population would be able to recover from the debt bubble.
What he didn't count on was that people were already highly conditioned to borrow based on prior Fed actions which perpetuate inflation. So instead of consolidating their current position, the general public went on an even wilder borrowing spree.
It's possible to salvage the current bubble but Bernanke would have to drive down rates to Japanese levels. I'm not sure he can. Assuming he can, I'm not sure he will. And if he does, I'm doubtful if it would be timely enough now.
All restraint has been set aside in the name of political expediency. The banquet of consequences will be a feast.
Sometimes I seriously wonder if that catchphrase "It's the economy stupid." is the source of this whole mess.
The fact that Bush Sr. in part blamed Greenspan for his loss may have started the whole bubble ball rolling.
"All restraint has been set aside in the name of political expediency"
Greenspan chose to shift current insolvable problems into future current insolvable problems.
I probably would have done the same.
Most people would have.
It's the nature of people and our system. There's definitely a "yes man" dynamic going on in my industry. You just get tired of fighting it after all, of being punished for trying to do what's right.
I'm ready to take a government job and coast.
Lets face it, lots of working class people that didn't get overly greedy walked away with a couple million $ houses.
And yet the security cameras didn't catch that?
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
"Lets face it, lots of working class people that didn't get overly greedy walked away with a couple million $ houses."
... and a couple of Option ARMs.
On Greenspan, I think at some point around 1996 or 1997 he decided that the Fed should only provide a floor to economic growth, instead of both a floor and a ceiling. This was his big mistake, and the housing bubble is basically the consequences of him scrambling to cover his ass.
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Nevermind the kind of steroid abuse that involves.
The third quarter has seen a 30% decline in approved mortgages in Spain according to:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/economia/hipotecas/contratadas/trimestre/caen/elpepueco/20071120elpepieco_4/Tes
(in spanish).
Credit growth for housing and consumption declined 40% (YoY) in august and september.
Home sales are, thus, declining at a very fast pace. The economy is also slowing (GDP growth:4,1%-3,8% GDP in the last quarter) and steeper decline every month.
Spain is well decoupled!
his loss may have started the whole bubble ball rolling
No, it's an illusion that it started recently. It's the Credit cycle. Technically, it started seventy years ago.
But it's an exponential function so it comes on really, really strong towards the end.
Read up on "Kondratieff wave".
There's some demographics sprinkled in there, too, but we're probably entering the same type of period that the Japanese entered in 1990 and the Russians enterned in 1989.
Broward's got it right, but only if Congress will do its share and tighten fiscal policy. 2% Fed Funds rate combined with a $200 billion gov't surplus (mostly thru higher taxes). That's what we need. Simple answer.
Our entire society is a complete mess.
I don't know whether or not we can get a reading on how strong the consumer is based on how hyped up the media frenzy was about today's pathetic anecdotal account of store sales. What we can learn though is that our society desperately needs a heavy dose of moderation. I was finally prepared to get that well desrved message, but it hasn't come. America is delusional. We still suffer greatly from the massive illusion. This implies to me the coming recession will be that much worse.
In my perfect world, this Einhorn cat is making the important decisions.
Banks Gone Wild by Paul Krugman
OP-ED COLUMNIST; Banks Gone Wild - NY Times
The only way it is about subprime is that this is where some of the money created during the real estate inflation was injected into the economy.
It stopped being about subprime when the hedge funds were able to leverage the 2% ARM teaser rates to 20 or 30% returns, aided and abetted by the ratings company and investor greed.
At least in sonoma county "Subprime"= THEM=Hispanics,at least so far...and it is not subtle.In Oakland and the east bay i suspect the "THEM" will be blacks,and in wealthy waspy areas probably the Rothschilds or the Illuminati.I personally think that if people just weren't so dang Human we wouldn't have these problems.
Bernanke said in his famous speech that the principle reason he did not fear Japanese-style deflation was the strength of the US financial system.
That would imply that he will do everything to save the financial system: the banks, etc.
We will end up with a healthy financial industry and bread lines.
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Well, at the height of the lunacy, a million dollar house was manufactured out of popsicle sticks. Fools! They left the land! They're not making any more land! They should have carried the dirt away, too!
I don't know what's become of this culture. You can have working class people walking down the street carrying a couple of million-dollar houses, probably in broad daylight, and nobody calls the cops.
Not saying that it is right, but you know it happened.
Initially people backed into it, in the sense that they really were just looking for a decent place to live and raise their kids, and then saw the gravy laying there for the taking as well as the tax incentives. Late in 03 or early in 04 it became obvious that the gig was up because you had people unable to balance a checkbook buying upscale housing.
The reason I mention it is that the idea that borrowers are victims is totally bogus. They are at least as crooked as the people writing the loans.
Many that now whine had the same opportunities, but rather then using the increased equity to pay down debt, they blew it on cheap garbage from China or useless chrome plated chariots.
Hold on, here, folks. This is the same guy who was a major investor in New Century Financial until just before its complete bust.
Hotter Seats Than They Bargained For
You're gonna take advice from him?
Cheer up! I have good news. Although the CEO of Mozilla (among others) robbed Americans of $500 million, he re-invested it in American dollars!
Ho ho ho!
The joke is on him!
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post, I'm talking about people that walked away with the houses almost paid off and sold at the top of the market.
useless chrome plated chariots
Starring Ben Bernanke as Sparti-cuts!
Bill,
"2% Fed Funds rate combined with a $200 billion gov't surplus (mostly thru higher taxes)."
I can't even comment on the sillyness of this. Please explain the logic of how the problem of a debt ridden economy is going to be solved by further eviscerating the dollar whilst at the same time increasing plunder on the productive sector?
Oh yes, we all know it ain't subslime. But really folks, it is all contained. That's what all our elite uber rich rulers told us. It's just them poor folk who took loans they couldn't afford. Bah... I'm depressing myself again.
Cheers,
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post,
You were clear enough, Tanta's just in a playful mood.
Subprime over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!...What the f--k happened to the CR I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh?
'Ooh, we're afraid to go with you, Tanta, we might get in trouble.' Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Greenspan, he's a dead man! Paulson, dead! Bernanke...
p.s. Neal, thanks for posting that Fafblog, I wanted to know that soon everyday will be Xmas.
HaloScan.com - Comments
Please explain the logic of how the problem of a debt ridden economy
See "Japan circa 1990-2005". The debt bubble could be sustained by lowering rates to a new low. This would reduce interest payments enough so that even subprime borrowers could keep up their payments.
That's really what's sustained the stock market and real estate since 1982. Long-term rates have steadily declined since the "state change" from the inflationary 1970s, i.e the "Reagan" recession.
English isn't my first language, so sometimes I miss things.
dissident,
"They are at least as crooked as the people writing the loans."
I agree, both were partying with OPM (Other Peoples Money, pronounced opium), however, one side of that trade had the resources to know better, and the other only had CR. I blame both for stupidity, but I blame the one with the resources a bit more.
Cheers,
Different cultures. In Russia there are no entitlements, you whine and you get to meet a clue by four.
but rather then using the increased equity to pay down debt,
You have a future at the Federal Reserve.
Tanta,
They told me I didn't, when I came to the US they told me my degrees were useless and I had to work as a car mechanic.
Now the joke is on them, math is math.
Broward Horne,
And you project yourself as a member of the industry. I can now understand why.
"The debt bubble could be sustained by lowering rates to a new low."
Really? Well I guess if you were a prudent citizen in Japan at the time and watched your savings investment decline to essentially nothing, as the gov't robbed you to pay the uber rich ruling elite, and were happy about it, then that was good.
By the by, you may have noticed that at the time the Japanese had the highest savings rate in the world. Whilst US citizens have a negative savings rate. Doesn't matter?...I think it does.
I was also unaware that the YEN was the globe's reserve currency. I've heard that it was the dollar. So pop up a few posts and re-read my entire comment.
Cheers,
get to meet a clue by four.
Is this a play on words? Or just a fortunate slip relating to Tanta's smacking everyone with 'get a clue' as if it were a two by four wooden stud?
sdtfs, "clue by four" is the only thing dissident has said so far that I understand. Please don't get him/her to take it back!
Probably a fortunate slip as it relates to Tanta, but it was intended as you say in general terms.
Does anyone besides me find these pictures disturbing. Only one word comes to mind and that is "gluttony".
An Error has occured | Reuters.com
sterlingerl,
Disturbing, yes. It appears that they're "MAXING" out before declaring BK. It's sad that others on this board have jokingly referenced doing that.
But at least it's not their money. They deserve a cram down.
Cheers,
Well the term "subprime meltdown," is about as meaningful now as "alternative music," was circa 1999.
Yes, it's pathetic to keep hearing the "problem" labeled the "subprime problem." By the way, I'm the "Bill" who actively trades options, often on the bearish put side. I've added a "D" to my name to keep thing straight, as the comments above from "Bill" are not mine.
avarice also does nicely, sterl
My understanding is that neither Fannie (FNM) nor Freddie (FRE) do subprime. I wonder why they got hit so hard?
BillD,
Because it is contained. No, really. It's all contained.
Cheers,
"Because it is contained. No, really. It's all contained."
Sir, the containment fields are fluctuating. Also, the ectoplasm readings are through the roof.
RE Krugman piece
This could be called Banks gone Weiled. It was Billy Clinton and his friend, Bobby Rubin, who said: banks, anything you want to do is okay.
It is Billy and Bobby responsible for the current meltdown that gave permission to the pigs to do what pigs do best. Oink, Oink, bankers, Republicans. Oink, oink, and screw the poor folks who bought into their newly allowed methods of rape and pillaqe.
And America could, if we democrats aren't smart, have Billy's hubristic wife as president!!!
Sigh. I still miss Fafblog.
"Subprime" is a perjorative, or at least will become one. It's heading for a ride on the "euphenism treadmill"
Euphemism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"You're gonna take advice from him?"
Not sure we are taking advice from him, but his comment about how cheap money was is a point a lot of people miss when they focus on just the lax standards. A lot of lending companies would still be in business if they had the appropriate operating margins built into their plan which would have helped some absorb losses.