The Credibility Police is going to come out and slap you with another warning CR.
Real life examples have no merit!
We should concern ourselves only with the averages.
You know, like when you put one foot in boiling hot water while making Ramen on your new granite countertop and the other foot in a cool, calming unheated bath from the luxury of your new master bathroom!
well of course it sells for less now, it is second hand now Would you rather have a new car or a 5 year old car with stale cigarette smoke in the upholstery?
I'll say this as someone who is purchasing a house (price = about 14-15 years rent, so cap rate = about 7%, so I won't get rich, but it ain't a disastrous purchase).
The optimistic side of all this is that so much of this housing decline seems to be driven by truly spectacular collapses in certain super-bubbly parts of the country. Yes, everybody's likely to feel some pain, but so much of the pain seems disproportionately felt in bubble areas and some declining rust-belt cities.
So Goldman Sachs says prices will decline 15% nationally and California will decline 30%. Well California is 12% of the country's population, Florida is another 6%, etc. So it already looks like we're under a 10% decline for the rest of the nation. Then you have Arizona, Detroit, Cleveland, and DC taking an above-average hit, and it looks even milder for the rest of us.
So it's looking like some areas will see spectactular declines while a lot more areas will be flat to mildly down.
You know what cracks me up though (just a final word on FL vs. NY?) Forbes just listed Binghamton N.Y. as one of America's hottest RE markets. Oh man I can't get over THAT one.
It's "hot" only because you won't lose your shirt on a house you bought there last year...!
Look what you get in upstate NY for the same amount...
I live in CNY (Ithaca). Camillus ain't reasonable commuting distance to anywhere. There is a reason for that price.
Ithaca, prices, on the other hand, are obscene. I just saw that a local realtor is trying to sell 2/2 condos for 310k. I rent a 3/2 farmhouse on 10 acres for 900/month. There is no way any sane person would by in this market.
Housing has declined here in greater Hartford CT about 7% this year from the highs- I see next year another 7% decline or more. Real estate is still not selling, with inventories climbing.
Yikes? Let's not forget prices DOUBLED from '97 to '02. Prices should revert to 2002 levels. CR, you'rve always downplayed the severity of the problem.
can anyone explain the property details for the home 2 lots away. the listed names on the transactions from 2006 forward are interesting as well as the purchaser being from puerto rico. also, what exactly is the nature of the 9/14/2006 and 3/20/2007 recordings?
I don't remember the FAR news releases announcing new median prices doubling cautioning that those results might not be typical or possibly because of special circumstances.
--
My estimate is that by 2009 25M of the 30M households in Debt Concentration Camps will qualify to "Walk Away!" (Cramer's advice). Even if only 12.5M make use of the opportunity it will bring down the financial system, Fed or no Fed. Bad lenders like Countrywide don't just limit themselves to sub-prime!
Oh, and I've got one more thing to add, on the subject of Florida vs. the "nowhere" Northeast...
It will take Florida, California, Vegas and every other overbloated housing market in America maybe 3 years to sink the same distance that it took the Rust Belt to sink in 30.
Enjoy the ride, folks. A pretty steep learning curve, and you'll be a lot humbler at the end of it.
As percentage-wise, these relative price movements (coming down to 1/2 or 1/3 of their peaks) were quite typical in the Tokyo real estate bubble and its aftermath.
Anybody that thinks California is going to follow the 70s/80s rust belt model is not thinking straight. the same comments go for anyone who thinks flyover country will escape huge declines because they didn't see huge increases. Some of the south-coastal price increases are attributable o demographic shifts and other factors. Contrarywise some of the flyover price stability is only an attribute of bubble credit.
If the purchase figures of the homes in this article are any indication of what is held in Florida's investment pool, then those counties and muni's have some worrying to do.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Thursday hinted that another interest rate cut may be needed to bolster the economy. The worsening credit crunch, a deepening housing slump and rising energy prices probably will create some "headwinds for the consumer in the months ahead," he said.
Bernanke said he expects consumer spending will continue to grow and suggested the country can withstand the current problems without falling into a recession. But he indicated that consumers could turn more cautious as they try to cope with all the stresses.
The odds have grown that the country could enter a recession. A sharp cutback in consumer spending could send the economy into a tailspin. Against this backdrop, Fed policymakers will need to be "exceptionally alert and flexible," Bernanke said.
That comment probably will be viewed as a sign the Fed may lower interest rates when it meets on Dec. 11, its last session of the year.
House was built in 2002. That is after Andrew trashed Homestead and before the storms of 2004 trashed the southwest Florida coast. I would not go near that house unless I had at least 2 firm homeowners insurance quotes that I could afford.
Lee county, and especially Cape Coral, has always been a boom and bust area.
Fed is definitely dropping the bloomers as fast as possible.
Raising cash I am, got twelve listing set to go on ebay, some stuff sitting on craigslist that is too heavy to ship, and making a delivery tomorrow, of all things, a 56 year old gas station cash register I am unloading for 2 c notes. One last time to lug that thing around. Talk about an inflation item- it only rings up to 5.99!!!
This just in:
AP
Bernanke Caught in rare Gaffe
New York-7:30pm
Ben Bernanke during a break in his speech tonight, failed to key off his microphone during an exchange with an aid. Bernanke was heard by all 300 attendees to remark "I cannot believe these guys eat this spin up! Do you think the line about doing all that is necessary to ensure price stability is still good? Do we have enough Vodka for the flight tonight?"
Attendees were aghast at the comments, but waited for the speech to conclude for any hint of a rate cut coming in December.
Joe Schmoe reporting
ABOVE IS A JOKE!
Now quick quiz!
Would a story like the one I fabricated above really shock you? The answer to that question tells you how silly things are by themselves without comic addition.
I don't really know anything about Florida, but Lee County has to be among the worst markets. I ran across a WSJ blog on the area a couple of weeks ago.
This seems like Dallas circa 1990.
In the most overbuilt areas it will be like Texas after the energy/S&L meltdown. Most of the country never really got that extreme.
In my neighborhood, zillow had everything up 20% a couple of years ago and that has evaporated. Most people didn't buy or sell and everyone knows that if you want to sell, you have to price 20% below the theoretical peak price.
I will close my comments on education with a pitch for financial literacy. In todays complex financial marketplace, a basic understanding of financial tools and markets and an appreciation of the need to budget, save, invest, and borrow wisely are critical to the financial health of every individual. The Federal Reserve is advancing financial literacy locally through the Charlotte Branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond. The Branch has active partnerships with organizations involved in financial literacy and economic education, including among others Jump$tart, Junior Achievement, LifeSmarts, Communities in Schools, the North Carolina Council on Economic Education, and the North Carolina Bankers Association. In short, advancing financial literacy is a high priority at the Federal Reserve. FRB: Bernanke, National and regional economic overview
Uh... I'm confused. I thought there was a savings glut? Yep, that's right. You need to save those Federal Reserve Notes as we open the money spigots, allowing homeless guys in Florida to borrow millions of them from my buddies. Now, my buddies are in a real world of hurt. So watch me snap my fingers and... bam billions more FRNs baby. Yeah, it's magic! We're gonna learn you real good!
I'm renting a house in a fairly new community (2005) in Bradenton, FL. Houses that were selling for $410k (2000 sq/ft stucco box) at the peak have recently sold for $270k. Nearly half the community is rented out. My rent barely covers the owners tax/insurance bill......
The only thing I heard about Cape Coral prior was from the books "Only Yesterday" (1930's) and "The Orchid Thief"(2000's), neither gives much hope, they both characterize it as Land Speculator Central.
Houses in flyover country DID see huge price increases in this bubble. What would their current prices be if they hadn't? Therefore, a drop there the same as elsewhere.
can someone explain how a specific area can be subject to repeat boom and busts so much so its known as a speculative haven generation after generation?
suntrust cancels all no ratio no doc loans...bye bye fannie alt a ....next shoe to drop will be CFC's Fast & Sleezy(stated income/stated assets)then CFC will be in receivership
What an ugly little house. And postage stamp sized yard!
For most of us this is a perfectly acceptable house, other than the fact that at one time it was grossly overpriced. Can you tell that I don't like snobs?
@JJL | Homepage | 11.29.07 - 7:44 pm | #
"Do we have enough Vodka for the flight tonight?"
Oh, so he drinks Vodka in the helicopter? I hope its US-made vodka because with the ruble so high these days we wouldn't want him throwing away money......
Don't worry! Sounds like a bail-out is on the way - check out Bloombert, Marketwatch, etc. Good old Hanky Panky Paulson and the rest of the crooks are planning out a way to let the deadbeats - I mean "subslime" - borrowers not have to enjoy their rate resets. Gotta reward the crooks and punish the honest!
I've noticed a bit of a discrepancy between official reported housing price changes and prices in the market here in Montgomery County, MD. The value of the house we purchased recently had come down from an initial asking price of $550,000 to around $500,000 by the time we'd bought the house. Zillow had the value peaking at over $600,000 in late 2006.
I have no idea how "official" some of these estimates are, but from what I've seen, asking prices that a year ago would have been easy sells have left houses on the market here for 4, 6, 8 months or more. Those that have sold have been reduced significantly (5-15%).
Perhaps the "official" house prices/values are being skewed by the types of houses still selling.
can someone explain how a specific area can be subject to repeat boom and busts so much so its known as a speculative haven generation after generation?
As Galbraith wrote, people have short financial memories:
..for built into the speculative episode is the euphoria, the mass escape from reality, that excludes any serious contemplation of the true nature of what is taking place.
Contributing to and supporting this euphoria are two further factors little noted in our time or in past times. The first is the extreme brevity of the financial memory. In consequence, financial disaster is quickly forgotten.
Cape Coral has been one giant 'half finished neighborhood' for a long time - it certainly was when I was carting my mother around looking at options for retirement - I see that hasn't changed much. This was in ~94, IIRC. It appeared that there was a Tampa-St.Pete bust then, and I guess that's back.
I don't know anything about Camillus, NY, but that house doesn't look particularly nicer to me than the FL box of ticky-tacky.
I really wouldn't mind have a Cape Coral House on one of those canals...and I must say, as someone who lives in the Mid-Atlantic (inland) - the potential for horrible weather is highly likely in upstate NY or FL. Of course, Hurricane Camille washed out the road I live on.
Whatever happened to the gasoline-can solution to being underwater on your mortgage? Much utilized in Texas after the oil bust in the 80s. Made a lot of work for attorneys, which is never a bad thing.
What Dale failed to tell ya all about CNY is the crushing tax burden. Further, I have to wonder if Dale has ever been to Florida. They have more water than they know what to do with. Maybe Dale should hang out at bens bubble blog with the rest of the trolls. I wrote that place off long ago and post under an alternate user name there.
Property taxes have increased in Florida, but so have premiums for homes owners insurance due to hurricane risk. My parents live far inland and yet the amount they pay for insurance doubled in the past year. From what I've read, if you live near the coast and your property is valued at around $350K, you can expect to pay around $10K a year in insurance premiums. Add to that high property taxes and mortgage payments and the current property values are unsustainable.
"ontributing to and supporting this euphoria are two further factors little noted in our time or in past times. The first is the extreme brevity of the financial memory. In consequence, financial disaster is quickly forgotten."
No it isn't. People remember; they just don't learn or understand. They just blame the sector and move onto the next craze, never understanding that the mania is the problem.
After the tech bubble burst, people simply believed "tech bad." Consequently, tech stocks were seriously undervalued in 2002.
In a few years, it'll be time to buy housing stocks.
What an ugly little house. And postage stamp sized yard!
Look what you get in upstate NY for the same amount...
CNYHomes - Detailed House Listing Information for MLS#178676
And, no water shortage problems either. And a 15 minute commute...
The 2002 photo is a dead give away.
Prbly major vandalism....
Rumor has it there are a 3 or 4 pissed off homeowners in S. Fla.
Oh oh.
The Credibility Police is going to come out and slap you with another warning CR.
Real life examples have no merit!
We should concern ourselves only with the averages.
You know, like when you put one foot in boiling hot water while making Ramen on your new granite countertop and the other foot in a cool, calming unheated bath from the luxury of your new master bathroom!
Dale,
40% chance of snow tonight in Camillus.
78 degrees (F) as I type in Cape Coral.
well of course it sells for less now, it is second hand now
Would you rather have a new car or a 5 year old car with stale cigarette smoke in the upholstery?
40% chance of snow tonight in Camillus.
60% chance of hurricane next year in Florida.
Was this a squat or a grow house?
I'll say this as someone who is purchasing a house (price = about 14-15 years rent, so cap rate = about 7%, so I won't get rich, but it ain't a disastrous purchase).
The optimistic side of all this is that so much of this housing decline seems to be driven by truly spectacular collapses in certain super-bubbly parts of the country. Yes, everybody's likely to feel some pain, but so much of the pain seems disproportionately felt in bubble areas and some declining rust-belt cities.
So Goldman Sachs says prices will decline 15% nationally and California will decline 30%. Well California is 12% of the country's population, Florida is another 6%, etc. So it already looks like we're under a 10% decline for the rest of the nation. Then you have Arizona, Detroit, Cleveland, and DC taking an above-average hit, and it looks even milder for the rest of us.
So it's looking like some areas will see spectactular declines while a lot more areas will be flat to mildly down.
==========================
Dale,
40% chance of snow tonight in Camillus.
78 degrees (F) as I type in Cape Coral.
Anonymous | 11.29.07 - 6:24 pm | #
Anon,
60% chance of hurricane next year in Florida.
Dale
Thanks for the laugh, BOTH of you. It takes two for repartee.
-K
This is the gotcha in many many neighborhoods in ALL 50 states
Sinking real estate prices ( and foreclosures ) will affect you too i.e. less equity, less MEW withdrawal and so on...
Many Americans will remain in denial because the RE party has been going on far too long !
The satelitte photo from the listing looks like a different house, but I'm still ready to buy!
- real estate - REALTOR.com®
I'm waiting for round 2 of Anony vs Dale, you?
You know what cracks me up though (just a final word on FL vs. NY?) Forbes just listed Binghamton N.Y. as one of America's hottest RE markets. Oh man I can't get over THAT one.
It's "hot" only because you won't lose your shirt on a house you bought there last year...!
Look what you get in upstate NY for the same amount...
I live in CNY (Ithaca). Camillus ain't reasonable commuting distance to anywhere. There is a reason for that price.
Ithaca, prices, on the other hand, are obscene. I just saw that a local realtor is trying to sell 2/2 condos for 310k. I rent a 3/2 farmhouse on 10 acres for 900/month. There is no way any sane person would by in this market.
Add to those declines in housing-the Washington DC area of 25%- greater NY,NJ,LI Southwestern CT of 10% and many parts of New England 10-20%.
Housing has declined here in greater Hartford CT about 7% this year from the highs- I see next year another 7% decline or more. Real estate is still not selling, with inventories climbing.
Check out the google maps satellite here
Surrounded by vacant lots.. looks like a half finished neighborhood..
Yikes? Let's not forget prices DOUBLED from '97 to '02. Prices should revert to 2002 levels. CR, you'rve always downplayed the severity of the problem.
can anyone explain the property details for the home 2 lots away. the listed names on the transactions from 2006 forward are interesting as well as the purchaser being from puerto rico. also, what exactly is the nature of the 9/14/2006 and 3/20/2007 recordings?
Camillus ain't reasonable commuting distance to anywhere.
Sorry, didn't know Syracuse was "nowhere" compared to Ithaca! scuse me.
I don't remember the FAR news releases announcing new median prices doubling cautioning that those results might not be typical or possibly because of special circumstances.
Zillow says it's worth $219K... Maybe they are trying to start a price war. LOL
You know, it's not a far bike ride to the beach, and winters are lovely there. Few neighbors
I agree with CR - if this house is in any way indicative of the market down there, things in S Florida are much worse than they seem.
--
My estimate is that by 2009 25M of the 30M households in Debt Concentration Camps will qualify to "Walk Away!" (Cramer's advice). Even if only 12.5M make use of the opportunity it will bring down the financial system, Fed or no Fed. Bad lenders like Countrywide don't just limit themselves to sub-prime!
Jas
Wow
I'm only a few years away from owning a home in Calif. If I stay employeed.
jo6pac
Oh, and I've got one more thing to add, on the subject of Florida vs. the "nowhere" Northeast...
It will take Florida, California, Vegas and every other overbloated housing market in America maybe 3 years to sink the same distance that it took the Rust Belt to sink in 30.
Enjoy the ride, folks. A pretty steep learning curve, and you'll be a lot humbler at the end of it.
"Got Water?"
What the heck is it with Florida? Ever since the 2000 election -- all they had to do was count -- every piece of news from there has just been nutty.
Anybody remember when Bugs Bunny sawed off Florida? "South America, take it away!"
Sounds like a plan.
Not that I ever look at such a website, of course. But the 'not the news' Fark.com has a special 'news tag' just for Florida.
As percentage-wise, these relative price movements (coming down to 1/2 or 1/3 of their peaks) were quite typical in the Tokyo real estate bubble and its aftermath.
Anybody that thinks California is going to follow the 70s/80s rust belt model is not thinking straight. the same comments go for anyone who thinks flyover country will escape huge declines because they didn't see huge increases. Some of the south-coastal price increases are attributable o demographic shifts and other factors. Contrarywise some of the flyover price stability is only an attribute of bubble credit.
Any news and market reaction from the Ben speech?
If the purchase figures of the homes in this article are any indication of what is held in Florida's investment pool, then those counties and muni's have some worrying to do.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Thursday hinted that another interest rate cut may be needed to bolster the economy. The worsening credit crunch, a deepening housing slump and rising energy prices probably will create some "headwinds for the consumer in the months ahead," he said.
Bernanke said he expects consumer spending will continue to grow and suggested the country can withstand the current problems without falling into a recession. But he indicated that consumers could turn more cautious as they try to cope with all the stresses.
The odds have grown that the country could enter a recession. A sharp cutback in consumer spending could send the economy into a tailspin. Against this backdrop, Fed policymakers will need to be "exceptionally alert and flexible," Bernanke said.
That comment probably will be viewed as a sign the Fed may lower interest rates when it meets on Dec. 11, its last session of the year.
Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
50 bps IMHOP
The 2002 photo is a dead give away.
House was built in 2002. That is after Andrew trashed Homestead and before the storms of 2004 trashed the southwest Florida coast. I would not go near that house unless I had at least 2 firm homeowners insurance quotes that I could afford.
Lee county, and especially Cape Coral, has always been a boom and bust area.
Fed is definitely dropping the bloomers as fast as possible.
Raising cash I am, got twelve listing set to go on ebay, some stuff sitting on craigslist that is too heavy to ship, and making a delivery tomorrow, of all things, a 56 year old gas station cash register I am unloading for 2 c notes. One last time to lug that thing around. Talk about an inflation item- it only rings up to 5.99!!!
Got cash?
I will shortly!
Someday this war's gonna end...
This just in:
AP
Bernanke Caught in rare Gaffe
New York-7:30pm
Ben Bernanke during a break in his speech tonight, failed to key off his microphone during an exchange with an aid. Bernanke was heard by all 300 attendees to remark "I cannot believe these guys eat this spin up! Do you think the line about doing all that is necessary to ensure price stability is still good? Do we have enough Vodka for the flight tonight?"
Attendees were aghast at the comments, but waited for the speech to conclude for any hint of a rate cut coming in December.
Joe Schmoe reporting
ABOVE IS A JOKE!
Now quick quiz!
Would a story like the one I fabricated above really shock you? The answer to that question tells you how silly things are by themselves without comic addition.
I don't really know anything about Florida, but Lee County has to be among the worst markets. I ran across a WSJ blog on the area a couple of weeks ago.
This seems like Dallas circa 1990.
In the most overbuilt areas it will be like Texas after the energy/S&L meltdown. Most of the country never really got that extreme.
In my neighborhood, zillow had everything up 20% a couple of years ago and that has evaporated. Most people didn't buy or sell and everyone knows that if you want to sell, you have to price 20% below the theoretical peak price.
Come on, CR.
Picking on a house in Cape Coral in a half-finished neighborhood? That's like picking on retarded children.
Cape Coral is the speculative housing poster child. Find a real world example and let us know.
If I keep reading this blog, I will use my entire home equity line of credit to buy srs on margin.
Gotta wait for the next fed rate cut first.
I will close my comments on education with a pitch for financial literacy. In todays complex financial marketplace, a basic understanding of financial tools and markets and an appreciation of the need to budget, save, invest, and borrow wisely are critical to the financial health of every individual. The Federal Reserve is advancing financial literacy locally through the Charlotte Branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond. The Branch has active partnerships with organizations involved in financial literacy and economic education, including among others Jump$tart, Junior Achievement, LifeSmarts, Communities in Schools, the North Carolina Council on Economic Education, and the North Carolina Bankers Association. In short, advancing financial literacy is a high priority at the Federal Reserve.
FRB: Bernanke, National and regional economic overview
Uh... I'm confused. I thought there was a savings glut? Yep, that's right. You need to save those Federal Reserve Notes as we open the money spigots, allowing homeless guys in Florida to borrow millions of them from my buddies. Now, my buddies are in a real world of hurt. So watch me snap my fingers and... bam billions more FRNs baby. Yeah, it's magic! We're gonna learn you real good!
I'm renting a house in a fairly new community (2005) in Bradenton, FL. Houses that were selling for $410k (2000 sq/ft stucco box) at the peak have recently sold for $270k. Nearly half the community is rented out. My rent barely covers the owners tax/insurance bill......
Is that satellite photo pre- or post-hurricane?
There's tons of places in Florida that are 30% or more down from the peak.
But Cape Coral is pretty much winning in the crash sweepstakes.
The land is 50-80% off peak in many areas. Just sayin'.
The only thing I heard about Cape Coral prior was from the books "Only Yesterday" (1930's) and "The Orchid Thief"(2000's), neither gives much hope, they both characterize it as Land Speculator Central.
Houses in flyover country DID see huge price increases in this bubble. What would their current prices be if they hadn't? Therefore, a drop there the same as elsewhere.
can someone explain how a specific area can be subject to repeat boom and busts so much so its known as a speculative haven generation after generation?
suntrust cancels all no ratio no doc loans...bye bye fannie alt a ....next shoe to drop will be CFC's Fast & Sleezy(stated income/stated assets)then CFC will be in receivership
For all the underwater home buyers... Don't follow Cramer's advice to walk away from your house but RUN.
What an ugly little house. And postage stamp sized yard!
For most of us this is a perfectly acceptable house, other than the fact that at one time it was grossly overpriced. Can you tell that I don't like snobs?
@JJL | Homepage | 11.29.07 - 7:44 pm | #
"Do we have enough Vodka for the flight tonight?"
Oh, so he drinks Vodka in the helicopter? I hope its US-made vodka because with the ruble so high these days we wouldn't want him throwing away money......
Don't worry! Sounds like a bail-out is on the way - check out Bloombert, Marketwatch, etc. Good old Hanky Panky Paulson and the rest of the crooks are planning out a way to let the deadbeats - I mean "subslime" - borrowers not have to enjoy their rate resets. Gotta reward the crooks and punish the honest!
Paulson, Banks in Talks to Stem Surge in Foreclosures (Update6) - Bloomberg.com
I've noticed a bit of a discrepancy between official reported housing price changes and prices in the market here in Montgomery County, MD. The value of the house we purchased recently had come down from an initial asking price of $550,000 to around $500,000 by the time we'd bought the house. Zillow had the value peaking at over $600,000 in late 2006.
I have no idea how "official" some of these estimates are, but from what I've seen, asking prices that a year ago would have been easy sells have left houses on the market here for 4, 6, 8 months or more. Those that have sold have been reduced significantly (5-15%).
Perhaps the "official" house prices/values are being skewed by the types of houses still selling.
can someone explain how a specific area can be subject to repeat boom and busts so much so its known as a speculative haven generation after generation?
As Galbraith wrote, people have short financial memories:
..for built into the speculative episode is the euphoria, the mass escape from reality, that excludes any serious contemplation of the true nature of what is taking place.
Contributing to and supporting this euphoria are two further factors little noted in our time or in past times. The first is the extreme brevity of the financial memory. In consequence, financial disaster is quickly forgotten.
Amazon.com: A Short History of Financial Euphoria (Penguin business) (9780140238563): John Kenneth Galbraith: Books
Cape Coral has been one giant 'half finished neighborhood' for a long time - it certainly was when I was carting my mother around looking at options for retirement - I see that hasn't changed much. This was in ~94, IIRC. It appeared that there was a Tampa-St.Pete bust then, and I guess that's back.
I don't know anything about Camillus, NY, but that house doesn't look particularly nicer to me than the FL box of ticky-tacky.
I really wouldn't mind have a Cape Coral House on one of those canals...and I must say, as someone who lives in the Mid-Atlantic (inland) - the potential for horrible weather is highly likely in upstate NY or FL. Of course, Hurricane Camille washed out the road I live on.
Whatever happened to the gasoline-can solution to being underwater on your mortgage? Much utilized in Texas after the oil bust in the 80s. Made a lot of work for attorneys, which is never a bad thing.
What Dale failed to tell ya all about CNY is the crushing tax burden. Further, I have to wonder if Dale has ever been to Florida. They have more water than they know what to do with. Maybe Dale should hang out at bens bubble blog with the rest of the trolls. I wrote that place off long ago and post under an alternate user name there.
Property taxes have increased in Florida, but so have premiums for homes owners insurance due to hurricane risk. My parents live far inland and yet the amount they pay for insurance doubled in the past year. From what I've read, if you live near the coast and your property is valued at around $350K, you can expect to pay around $10K a year in insurance premiums. Add to that high property taxes and mortgage payments and the current property values are unsustainable.
Hmm, 65% off peak. Not bad.
But... how much could you rent it for? I suspect with the insurance, hurricanes, repairs, it's still overpriced.
Aren't assessments for property tax in Florida based on the last sale? Not sure about this one.
Couldn't you sell your house to some entity, re-buy it, and have a lower valuation upon which your property tax will be based?
"ontributing to and supporting this euphoria are two further factors little noted in our time or in past times. The first is the extreme brevity of the financial memory. In consequence, financial disaster is quickly forgotten."
No it isn't. People remember; they just don't learn or understand. They just blame the sector and move onto the next craze, never understanding that the mania is the problem.
After the tech bubble burst, people simply believed "tech bad." Consequently, tech stocks were seriously undervalued in 2002.
In a few years, it'll be time to buy housing stocks.