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Am I the first to suggest that Greenspan is a criminal?
Krugman Savages Greenspan’s Revisionist History « naked capitalism
Honestly, I can't even watch these. If the next time I see his disgusting face is in a coffin, it will still be too soon.
his comments on inflation bear the greatest significance by far.
are there any more comments from him out on this?
Here is a real life video for you
YouTube - The Eyes of a Mortgage Broker Series 2
Ok, I started watching the first one, and had to close it after 4 minutes. Seriously, which of you people can sit through this and not have to buy another monitor at the end of it? It's rubbish.
Ah, nothing like revisionist history to help peddle his book, eh? Seems like mighty expensively bound toilet paper to me...
Greenspan a geek?
Shocking stuff...
O.T., Pier Loans:
Credit Suisse, Citigroup Take Losses on Debt to Keep LBOs Alive
Credit Suisse, Citigroup Take Losses on LBO Debt (Update5) - Bloomberg.com
Ends with: The banks are taking a kitchen sink quarter,'' Bove said in an interview.They are writing off as much as they can conceivably write off this quarter and next quarter, so they can start clean next year.''
OT, ARM resets going to be less painful(?):
Sterling 3-month Libor eases as N. Rock crisis deepens
Business & Financial News, Breaking US & International News | Reuters.com
UK futures markets are now fully pricing in a 25 basis point cut in official UK rates by March.
NRK "underwater"?
Northern Rock - Range of savings, investment and home loan products
(see graphic)
Slightly OT regards,
WTH.
Somebody get those big money Wall Street gamblers out of bed to blast up the S&P futures.
This is completely unacceptable.
Why the devil would Greenspan have cause to confer with either Colin Powell or Condi Rice??? I want to see this guy answering Committee questions under oath.
"Sad Alans Lament, by Paul Krugman, Commentary, NY Times (excerpts at Economist's View and Naked Capitalism)"
So, in March of 2003--the month the invasion of Iraq started--AG had 14 meetings at the WH. For the year, 68 meetings. What were they discussing, how to pump up the US economy to hide the costs of the war?
Yep - hide the cost of everything and get the commoners focused on house-flipping so they would stop asking questions such as: why are all of our jobs leaving? Why is the dollar being trashed? Why are illegals flooding the nation? and so on...
If Greenspan "didn't know" than he is a blooming idiot. Even I figured out the problem a few years back, and I am no economics major. But when rates are so low that savings can't keep up with inflation it becomes better to borrow at the low rate than to save. And the housing Bubble based upon toxic loans was pretty obvious with a big of digging around.
No, if Greenspan didn't know, than he should remain silent and disappear from the public scene since that would mean he's one of the biggest morons to every get to such a position in the government. But trust me, he knew full well what he was doing, and he should be rotting in prison for it. He manipulated the economy to basically destroy the middle class and much of America's remaining productive base. Now what do we have? Mountains of toxic loans and useless McMansions - great job, Greeny!
Only if you did so before April 2004 and his call to ARMs. I've been advocating prison time ever since.
Mr. Greenspan is polishing his reputation, like others from this administration, at a time when it is clear that everything that was sold as shinola is merely shit.
His language structure is pefect for that. I'm sure if you looked closely enough you could find to a recipe for making gold from lead.
However, the fact remains, his tenure at the Fed will be remembered as the period when the American economy was crippled beyond repair.
GWB may be obtuse enough to imagine that history will vindicate him, but Mr. Greenspan has seen the future and it will not praise anyone who participated in government on this one-way trip to to dust-bin of history.
Now that the outcome of the debacle is clear, all of the parties who could have had significant effect on the public opinion in current time, are coming out with their own secret "hair on fire" stories.
They were and are opportunistic toadies working for a wilfully ignorant, incompetent and corrupt adminitration. They too will decorate the hall of shame.
How many of these people had the courage to resign due to their principles? Were their prospects so dim that they were afraid they would be on the street, homeless?
No, it was too easy to remain sucking on the poisoned tit and nodding drowsily in agreement with the dismemberment of America.
Who could have seen how badly it would all come out? Not the small people locked in the small bunker of their mindset. But it sure is a renumerative starting point to write their memoirs, ala "Fog of War".
There is blood on their hands, like MacNamara, that cannot be washed out.
For no apparent reason, Mr. Greenspan's visits to the White House tripled from just 12 in 2000 to 37 in 2001, when Bush took office.
Well, in 2001 we had a recession. And Bush Sr. partly blamed Greenspan's unwillingness to cut rates in the early 90s for his re-election loss.
2 + 2 = 4
Right?
King, BOE Face `Crisis of Confidence' After Rescue
Bank of England Governor Mervyn King has spent the past month trying to stay above the fray as the U.S. subprime-mortgage collapse roiled credit markets. Now he's getting dragged in, whether he likes it or not.
King, BOE Face `Crisis of Confidence' After Rescue (Update4) - Bloomberg.com
England seems to have thier own version of Mr.G.
ac,
Watch the yen my friend - if you see it weaken suddenly and dramatically (blast dramatically back above 115 yen/USD) - your wish is being granted!
OT but might be on topic tomorrow -
I have been banging the "no rate cuts, no bail outs" drum ad nauseum but I think I am finally getting my head around the fact that it's not going to happen the way I want and we will have a cut.
So, my question is, is it possible for the Fed to keep markets propped up artificially with a series of rate cuts, so that the weakness of the economy is hidden by inflation and dollar weakness? Or, are the current credit issues and the coming weakness in consumer spending from falling housing prices so serious that no amount of cutting will keep the markets at 2007 levels.
Just curious, would like to know what others think.
Bush, Greenspan and Bernanke constitue the trio who destroyed usa. Those who think Bernanke is innocent and just inherited the problems should not forget he was second in command in Greenie's fed.
If anyone knows the answers that well, he would not waste his time posting on these message boards. Just my HO.
The only way I would do business with Bush and Powel is if I had a gun to my head.
Totally OT,
Anyone seen any results on the Hovnanian 'Sale of the Century' and various other desperate bids to move inventory this last weekend (at a minimum also Meritage and Standard Pacific also had events)?
Might make an interesting roundup, though as observed previously, the real story will be on what actually closes from these dash for cash events.
When Leslie Stahl commented that Alan was a big fan of Ayn Rand, I thought: No kidding! Yow.
I resist conspiracy theories, but that little tidbit was very thought provoking.
"In Manchester, branch manager Pauline Longstaff chose a gentle approach. She handed out chocolates and personally reassured customers that they would be taken care of. Her staff also served fruit juice to the waiting customers, who -- like those waiting outside branches elsewhere -- were mostly elderly people concerned about their life savings"
And as the little old ladies finally reached the window, the teller said to her "sorry, we're out of chocolates".
"Ron Stout, a spokesman for Northern Rock, said on Saturday that reckless comments by some analysts about the bank's solvency had caused some customers to panic by lining up outside branches or straining the company's online banking system."
just change out CW for NR a few wks ago.
ac,
Watch the yen my friend - if you see it weaken suddenly and dramatically (blast dramatically back above 115 yen/USD) - your wish is being granted!
Whew... it looks like these guys rolled out of bed a little bit late this morning, but I think everything is going to be OK.
"Am I the first to suggest that Greenspan is a criminal?"
and a strangely smug one at that. after he viewed his own clip of Fedspeak he said "very profound". LS pushed him on his opacity and he smiled and said "it worked". here is the top banking official in the world expected to answer burning questions honestly in front of Congress deliberately not being honest. everything we assumed about the economy in his 19 yr tenure is seen to be the opposite: the Repubs are large gov't advocates that overspend, Clinton was our best president ever, the Greenspan Put is real, we have inflation that no one believes we have, ARMS really are terrible and houusing is going down, the Fed is NOT and indep decision making body and WILL be influenced by politics, and probably he believes we should be back on the gold std. amazing.
Calculated Risk is already being blamed in some circles for bursting the housing bubble and cheerleading a decline in employment (blame the messenger). Now it appears CR can be made the scapegoat for Alan Greenspan's tarnished legacy. All I can say is keep up the good work.
Greenspan seems to have turned himself into the flavor of the month.
He may have been merely a self-aggrandizing mediocre Fed chairman, but he certainly knows how to sell a book.
I have now placed him in the already-know-all-I-need-to-know category, along with cholesterol and the English royal family.
sterlingerl,
That is a key question! I don't think the market (if by that you mean the stock market) can hold, no matter what the Fed does. Nor can any rate action by the Fed alter the housing situation because tougher standards and higher risk premiums will easily offset any lower rates. Nor can it change the conditions in the credit markets. Nor can it change a recession whether we are now in one or nearly so. Any positive effects will either be psychological or years in the future. Negative effects, on the other hand, will be immediate because there seem to be some structural economic stresses that will let go like an earthquake fault.
With Ag commoditites ripping, is there anyway the FED can lower? I think not...
Many of the policies that came out of the depression were focused on never seeing an American go hungry again..
Other sectors may have to take the pain, to alleviate upward pressure on food related prices.
Source your diet
Thanks Wally. I had intended for my question to sound more rhetorical than it does, as in, "could they really pull off such a stunt, like, really???" But from Lost in Translation's response it seems they could. Wow.
sterlingerl
remember they can do anything in the short term but my contention is over the long term the financial economy will succumb to the real economy. we've seen it in the HB's and financials since the beginnning of the yr.
Calculated Risk is already being blamed in some circles for bursting the housing bubble and cheerleading a decline in employment (blame the messenger).
I would cheerlead a decline in employent now just as I would have in the late 70s and early 80s - it was a necessary restructuring to get the US financial system healthy and the economy on a sustainable path of wealth production and sane capital structure.
We need a change of guard which is only going to occur with a rise in bankruptcies and layoffs -- the people who control our financial system right now have no interest in the long-term health of the US economy. It's going to take a painful recession to stave off something far worse later down the line.
Haha. One mushy tidbit I loved in that '60 mins' softball salad was desplaying Greenspan's 'geekiness' (oh, how he loves to pour over govt reports every damn day) and yet no questioning as why such big geek didn't 'get' the housing bubble and bust. I guess 60 minutes felt like it was more important to please its ex-anchors (greenspan's wife andrea mitchell) to get an exclusive than to call him out on his b.s.
And now today we find him trying to take back his one moment of truth:
Greenspan on Iraq war, oil link - Oil & energy- msnbc.com
oops 'displaying
I'll bet some people withdrawing their life savings from Northern Rock are putting the money under the bed, at least until the smoke clears.
How much money do you have under your bed?
I'll bet...not enuff.
Lost in Translation,
Nope, Bernanke was not "second in command". The Vice Chairman is not necessarily a power on the Fed, and Bernanke was never the VC, in any case. He was a governor. Beyond that, the Fed is either a committee that reaches decisions by consensus, or it is a hierarchy, in which the Chairman decides, based on the advice of Board members. Not much room for a "second in command" in any practical sense, unless the Chairman is out of contact at the time of a policy meeting.
ready for war ?
Bush setting America up for war with Iran - Telegraph
I agree there is no power structure, but in all other respect, Bernanke did so. Everyone knew that he was being groomed as next Fed president. How about his helicopter speech? That clearly told the market that fed will print as much money as possible, and will keep rates low until they are forced not to. This was the main reason products like ARM came into play.
"He was a governor. Beyond that, the Fed is either a committee that reaches decisions by consensus, or it is a hierarchy, in which the Chairman decides, based on the advice of Board members."
Fed rate decisions are all about the man at the top ONLY. Read Lawrence Meyers memoirs of his time at the Fed. Greenspan was largely aloof to the Board during his entire time there.
By all means, let us hope for a catastrophic economic collapse, so that the people will rush to the cultural elite, and beg to be saved from themselves. Keep up the good work, guys. You have no idea what a tremendous resource you are for conservatives.
"...Nor can any rate action by the Fed alter the housing situation because tougher standards and higher risk premiums will easily offset any lower rates..."
wally | 09.17.07 - 9:29 am | #
Not to mention that the asset at the core of these loans is overvalued by 200% (conservatively).
The housing market is locked up:
Those who can manage their suddenly radically increased debt load will be locked in.
Those who default will be locked out. Those who financed at reasonable rates, and before the bubble began to inflate, will be locked in by virtue of having to trade sideways (no net gain). Those not locked in (renters) will be the primary buyers over the next few years, but the traditional rationale for buying - the tax advantage - will not compel them to get their feet wet.
Other than that and burgeoning inflation in core consumables, not much happening.
We need a change of guard which is only going to occur with a rise in bankruptcies and layoffs -- the people who control our financial system right now have no interest in the long-term health of the US economy. It's going to take a painful recession to stave off something far worse later down the line.
ac | 09.17.07 - 9:59 am | #
By all means, let us hope for a catastrophic economic collapse, so that the people will rush to the cultural elite, and beg to be saved from themselves. Keep up the good work, guys. You have no idea what a tremendous resource you are for conservatives.
Nil | 09.17.07 - 10:29 am | #
ac's point is more realistic, and truly more 'conservative', than Nil's. Classic Grasshopper (Nil) and Ant (ac).
Nil: Greenspan, Bush, Cheney, trickle-down debt, deregulation, corporate welfare, run-away debt, defecit spending, lopsided (negative) trade balances, a severely weakened dollar, huge government, massive fiscal corruption, and destruction of the American middle class.
Your "tremendous conservative resources" at work.
How about that guy at the baseball game who came over to get an autograph and said:
"If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have a house."
Priceless.
Slightly OT but...
I'm really surprised that there is no panic over aliG's prediction that national home prices might decline in the double digits. Are the people investing now clinically insane?
Unresponsive, duly noted.
Greenspan on Mortgage Meltdown
This segment is a perfect example of the unjustness of providing bankers insurance against failure. The speculators hold everybody hostage and the central bank tells the public that they have no choice but to pay the ransom. But I guess it is "better" to keep a man employed than it is to give him a just monetary system.
Get back to work!
Rolling my eyes and snorting at the suggestion that even the greatest turmoil imaginable would resort in a "changing of the guard". What country do you live in?
The guys who variously steer this ship are here to stay, through anything short of criminal charges. Even when a figurehead steps down or is ousted, the "fresh blood" will be an exact clone.
Unresponsive, duly noted.
Nil | 09.17.07 - 11:58 am
You mispelled "uninterested."
so now we know that Greenspan didn't feel like getting involved in being in Karl Rove's spin machinegun sights.
I can't blame him, or have "old friend" Dick Cheney invite him to go on a hunting expedition.
Well, now that he has let the cat out of the bag and told the American people they are indeed stupid, I can't wait to see how he is reviled by the mainstream press.
Long term inflation higher and long term interest rates higher.
Nobody but the metals markets paid attention to that one. It sure didn't move the long bond;-} Expensive certificates of confiscation.
Someday this war's gonna end...
You had to know that Ben was watching that 60 minutes Greenspan infomercial, and you just knew that he probably threw something at that t.v. ( A large BLS jobs report file?)
In the 1996-2000 period it was apparently necessary for the chairman to visit the White House about 12 times per year, or once per month. For no apparent reason, Mr. Greenspan's visits to the White House tripled from just 12 in 2000 to 37 in 2001, when Bush took office.
Had to keep goin' back cuz Bush is such an imbecile.
"Uh, Alley Al, can ya come back up to the house? I can't quite remember, uh, ya said something about fed rates? Is our shipping discount goin' away? Heh, heh... oh lookee there's Barney cleanin' himself again. Barb'll bring us some o'her fine lemonade. I just love lemonade, heh, heh. Ok, Ally Oop, see ya in a bit."
Holy jumpin' jesus - he's a fuckin' embarrassment.
I also love the quote in his book I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil
I can't tell you how many diputes I've had with Fox-watching cocksuckers over this very point:
"Nuh uh, we're liberating Iraq"
"Nuh uh, Saddam was evil. He gassed his own people."
"Nuh uh, he was violating UN resolution"
"Nuh uh, they hate our freedoms"
Hey numbnuts', can you even find Iraq on a map? No, how about Amuricah? Do you know where that is? It's that big cow-shaped blob right there...
Gerrrrraaaahhhhhh! Why are there so many dipshits in denial in this country? And these same consumer zombies can have driver's licenses, serve on a jury, and vote!
Hoooooly DVD player in the SUV headrests Batman.