Perhaps the cover curse has nuances that match topic with magazine to invoke the full curse. For instance, if BusinessWeek runs a covers on a specific company, then that ends the specific company's run, but it does not have that same effect to BW covers for "trends". To change a "trend" you need to get it on the cover of Time. Thus, the housing crash is a "trend" and needs Time coverage. Beazer and Standard Pacific, however, would need a BusinessWeek cover about now.
I, personally, have been watching for the Time cover on "Real Estate: The worst way to spend your money", at which point I will buy all the resaleable properties I can get my hands on.
The problem with the modern media (and value investors) is the extreme competition and the immediate impulse to cover new trends. Several media outlets, regardless of subject matter, will also regurgitate the same material as if it were new content.
How many fitness magazines can explain new workouts? How many diet books can provide new diet plans? How many investment publications can talk about buying growth and value stocks? WAY too many if you ask me.
Even during the Internet Age, this hyper-competition within media seems to be creating an era with more misaligned thoughts and subjective viewpoints. The good thing is, this subjective environment will continue to be beneficial for short-sellers to objectively exploit.
BTW, once I see a cover titled "Bonfire of the REITs" then I'll look for a bottom.
I think this surely means we're getting very close to the bottom. This and 2 other things -- Cramer in a frenzy telling everyone to sell their real estate, and all the talk on this site this weekend about HB puts. I respect everyone who posts here, but you have to admit, contrarian theory has its point. When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over.
When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over. Need to watch the Fox News business lineup on Saturday morning. Or more business shows during the day. A few people are talking about it and are frequently roundly ridiculed.
The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy.
There must be something wrong with my charts. Every time somebody brings up that Time cover, I look for the big peak in June of 2005 and somehow it isn't there. Seems to me peak pricing was in early 2006 by just about every measure.
I agree the easy money's been made and the bragging rights are pretty much over, but I'll take at least another six months or so against the homebuilders and then we can talk about a bottom.
There must be something wrong with my charts. Sheesh albrt, your letting a little reality get in the way of a good story. However, I do thing that sales numbers peaked in 2005. YOY, 2006 was less.
Tues we get the "non farm productivity" numbers. Since we postulated that the homebuilders had employed a large number of "off the record" workers, it would seem that productivity in this sector was boosted. Could this data be used to estimate the "off the record" worker numbers for the housing boom?
These guys used a 1,000 day horizon to study the 'cover curse.' In equity markets, any outlier is likely to rise and regress to the mean within the span of almost 3 years!
It's like the sophomore slump in baseball. Any lucky rookie is likely to regress to the mean in the next season. If it wasn't an outlier, it wouldn't be news, would it?!
The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy. -- Robert
I have to think that most Americans do not want to see our country go through a hard time and it is easier to hedge towards a "softer" scenario. Who wants to start a panic if it isn't a forgone conclusion. It is kind of like marriage - we all go to the wedding but inside we know the odds.
The fact that there seems to be a general consenus that a rock dropped from the top of the Empire State Building will hit the ground hard probably will not slow down the rock.
Also,news can be news today and not be news forever.
In Arizona 15.1% of homes are purchased by people who were foreign born; in California the percentage stands at 31.1. The fact that interest rates are rising and credit is tightening is going to make it much harder for people who are foreign born to purchase a home. These people form a good part of the foundation that the housing deck of cards rests on.
When you realize that the foreclosure wave will not subside for at least another 18 months, then you will have to concede that the BW curse will not hold in this case.
BizWeek, Forbes, and Fortune may not be the perfect indicators for the cover curse, because they usually cover things a little before those things hit to generic newsmagazines like Time & Newsweek.
When Time runs a cover story titled "Why you should rent instead of own," then it may be indeed time to declare a bottom.
roxy, The HBs are now facing the credit wipeout. You can bet when they release the home sales numbers for July & August and the HB sentiment numbers they will be A LOT lower than they were. Bottom isn't in yet. Not even close.
We'll be at 'the bottom' when the median home can be bought for 3x to 4x the median salary in the area.
We have far, far to fall to get there in many markets. Others aren't that far from it now.
Where I live we are there now... have always been there as long as I've lived here (25 years). Median family income of a little less than $60K and median home price of a little more than $150K.
Not trying to sound like Seb but that's the thing - a lot of the US isn't completely wacky over real estate. Its a very bimodal situation.
Last time we bottomed nobody really knew it and the bottom lasted about 2-4 years/ Essentially flatline from 94-97. Being in the realty business myself for 17 years I've been having interesting conversation with individuals that have gained great wealth thru real estate over realistic time periods...read: decades. Yes, my parents bought a house in 1986 for around 70K that is now free and clear and is redeemable (paper value) at around $600K. I've got one really smart client friend that bought land in the mid 60's for around 50K and sold in 1998 for around $1.8M. The individual then reinvested quite prudently. Real estate was never a get rich quick scheme.... The tree is being shaken quite violently right now.
"When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over."
Only if all the major factors in the situation are already known and anticipated. But in a speculative economy like this that no one even claims to completely understand, unknown factors tend to come into play just as the major actors start to clink glasses and congratulate themselves on their survival.
Real estate was never a get rich quick scheme.... The tree is being shaken quite violently right now.
pjt - a lot of us here agree, real estate can be a GREAT investment for the right people at the right times... expectations got distorted the last few years. What else can you say?
There is no way to judge at this point how long this problem will last because we have only just started to see foreclosures hit the market. Losses are just starting to be compiled.
The financial markets are in panic mode because they have no idea what the total losses will be, hence they can not calculate what the value of the securities they have invented are. The more they panic the worse they make it for themselves. This is no longer just a sub-prime problem it is a problem with how Wall Street does business.
I believe that the credit markets are freezing in part because big money people don't want to deal with crooked Wall Street companies like BSC anymore.
As is usually the case consumers will get to pick up the tab. The consumers will be stuck with the problem of paying higher rates on most loans and will be left to live in a home that may be worth less than what they purchased it for.
I guess we should thank Lewis Ranierie and Michael Milken for inventing these great mortgage backed products that have made our credit markets so much more efficient.
albrt, the peak for existing home sales was June 2005, the peak in RI as a % of GDP (residential investment) was in Q4 2005; the peak for New Home sales was in July 2005.
I'd say the timing of the Time cover story was pretty close.
"The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy."
When NAHB sentiment tracks a rising trend for at least three months running, I'll begin looking for an architect. I can't predict when that will be; it's just a bellwether.
Though magazine cover stories about a trend naturally appear at time when it has reached an extreme level, they don't necessarily mark the turning point. The famous Business Week "Death of Equities" cover that is often cited as marking the end of the 70's bear market actually appeared several years before any noticeable recovery began. And Newsweek's "Everyone's Getting Rich But Me!" cover on the 90's boom was also several years ahead of the top.
Just another example of why the mainstream media is circling the drain. The blogosphere was onto the housing bubble literally years ago; I distinctly recall finding this blog and others (housing doom, housing panic) back in 2005.
Of course we were initially ridiculed as bears, doom mongerers, and party poopers. What's that I smell in the air ... vindication?
Once the general public finally gives up on their dreams of real estate riches, then we'll be near the bottom. But I see little evidence that has happened.
It's a lot scarier for mainstream mags to sound the warning rather than pretend everything is just wonderful (advertisers really want that wonderful part) Hence you have a $weet home cover when you should have had a cover saying 'Crazy loans for Overpriced Homes'
That said, I think anyone betting that BW has inadvertently called the bottom should take a breath. This is a huge story and will be played out over years --with hedge fund and bank bonfires (and then I fear neighborhood ones) to come. When the 5th or 6th bad-news cover happens, maybe I'll start shopping.
I think BW knows the cover curse is real and people believe in it. So, to make people believe that the mess is over, they came up with this cover. Nice try BW!
NJMortgages wrote I guess we should thank Lewis Ranierie and Michael Milken for inventing these great mortgage backed products that have made our credit markets so much more efficient.
You know, it's all in the execution. There wouldn't be all these problems is the underwriting on the loans going into these pools had been reasonable.
On the top of Fortune's cover from the a couple weeks ago (July 17th?) featuring Bill Gates in China. The top (above FORTUNE) said "The greatest economic Boom Ever."
MOM.."it's all in the execution. There wouldn't be all these problems is the underwriting on the loans going into these pools had been reasonable"...which raises a very interesting question. How much of the problem is due to inaccurate/fraudulent data on the individual mortgages, versus how much of it is due to incorrect assumptions used in the models for calculating the riskiness of the pools?
(I am egotistical enough that I don't mind repeating myself.) Real estate is local but credit is national and darn near everybody buys real estate on credit. So watch the money. When the purse strings are loosened to disburse funds for morgages then we will be at the bottom.
"When Time runs a cover story titled "Why you should rent instead of own," then it may be indeed time to declare a bottom."
I say this is about right, because that indicated the bottom last time around. The bottom is not marked by everyone realizing that builders are having a hard time. The bottom is marked by everyone believing real estate is a bad investment (which is exactly what happens at the end of every real estate cycle).
first w00t!
I have had like, 5 firsts... and its pure luck. Maybe I'm just that good? who knows... but I hope everyone is having fun!!!!
Anyway, can someone look at this and tell me what is wrong with it... I want to see if I'm thinking correctly.
'Prices are falling' becomes real estate mantra | Real Estate and Technology News for Agents, Brokers and Investors | Inman News
Nevermind... I'm a tard. Article was published 2006.
Dustdevil,
Is it that the idiot can't distinguish between a price decline and slower growth?
What do i win?
Perhaps the cover curse has nuances that match topic with magazine to invoke the full curse. For instance, if BusinessWeek runs a covers on a specific company, then that ends the specific company's run, but it does not have that same effect to BW covers for "trends". To change a "trend" you need to get it on the cover of Time. Thus, the housing crash is a "trend" and needs Time coverage. Beazer and Standard Pacific, however, would need a BusinessWeek cover about now.
I, personally, have been watching for the Time cover on "Real Estate: The worst way to spend your money", at which point I will buy all the resaleable properties I can get my hands on.
But it might note the beginning of the "bonfire" trend, if people start taking the truly desperate measures to try to recover their losses....
Let's hope those bonfires don't become literal ones....
The problem with the modern media (and value investors) is the extreme competition and the immediate impulse to cover new trends. Several media outlets, regardless of subject matter, will also regurgitate the same material as if it were new content.
How many fitness magazines can explain new workouts? How many diet books can provide new diet plans? How many investment publications can talk about buying growth and value stocks? WAY too many if you ask me.
Even during the Internet Age, this hyper-competition within media seems to be creating an era with more misaligned thoughts and subjective viewpoints. The good thing is, this subjective environment will continue to be beneficial for short-sellers to objectively exploit.
BTW, once I see a cover titled "Bonfire of the REITs" then I'll look for a bottom.
I think this surely means we're getting very close to the bottom. This and 2 other things -- Cramer in a frenzy telling everyone to sell their real estate, and all the talk on this site this weekend about HB puts. I respect everyone who posts here, but you have to admit, contrarian theory has its point. When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over.
When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over. Need to watch the Fox News business lineup on Saturday morning. Or more business shows during the day. A few people are talking about it and are frequently roundly ridiculed.
The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy.
We'll be at 'the bottom' when the median home can be bought for 3x to 4x the median salary in the area.
We have far, far to fall to get there in many markets. Others aren't that far from it now.
In LA it's currently around 10x. I'm guessing we're probably 5 to 7 years away in the most bloated markets.
There must be something wrong with my charts. Every time somebody brings up that Time cover, I look for the big peak in June of 2005 and somehow it isn't there. Seems to me peak pricing was in early 2006 by just about every measure.
I agree the easy money's been made and the bragging rights are pretty much over, but I'll take at least another six months or so against the homebuilders and then we can talk about a bottom.
There must be something wrong with my charts. Sheesh albrt, your letting a little reality get in the way of a good story. However, I do thing that sales numbers peaked in 2005. YOY, 2006 was less.
CR,
Tues we get the "non farm productivity" numbers. Since we postulated that the homebuilders had employed a large number of "off the record" workers, it would seem that productivity in this sector was boosted. Could this data be used to estimate the "off the record" worker numbers for the housing boom?
These guys used a 1,000 day horizon to study the 'cover curse.' In equity markets, any outlier is likely to rise and regress to the mean within the span of almost 3 years!
It's like the sophomore slump in baseball. Any lucky rookie is likely to regress to the mean in the next season. If it wasn't an outlier, it wouldn't be news, would it?!
It can mark the short-term bottom in homebuilders, making another small peak in 2 months.
The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy. -- Robert
I have to think that most Americans do not want to see our country go through a hard time and it is easier to hedge towards a "softer" scenario. Who wants to start a panic if it isn't a forgone conclusion. It is kind of like marriage - we all go to the wedding but inside we know the odds.
The fact that there seems to be a general consenus that a rock dropped from the top of the Empire State Building will hit the ground hard probably will not slow down the rock.
Also,news can be news today and not be news forever.
In Arizona 15.1% of homes are purchased by people who were foreign born; in California the percentage stands at 31.1. The fact that interest rates are rising and credit is tightening is going to make it much harder for people who are foreign born to purchase a home. These people form a good part of the foundation that the housing deck of cards rests on.
When you realize that the foreclosure wave will not subside for at least another 18 months, then you will have to concede that the BW curse will not hold in this case.
BizWeek, Forbes, and Fortune may not be the perfect indicators for the cover curse, because they usually cover things a little before those things hit to generic newsmagazines like Time & Newsweek.
When Time runs a cover story titled "Why you should rent instead of own," then it may be indeed time to declare a bottom.
roxy, The HBs are now facing the credit wipeout. You can bet when they release the home sales numbers for July & August and the HB sentiment numbers they will be A LOT lower than they were. Bottom isn't in yet. Not even close.
We'll be at 'the bottom' when the median home can be bought for 3x to 4x the median salary in the area.
We have far, far to fall to get there in many markets. Others aren't that far from it now.
Where I live we are there now... have always been there as long as I've lived here (25 years). Median family income of a little less than $60K and median home price of a little more than $150K.
Not trying to sound like Seb but that's the thing - a lot of the US isn't completely wacky over real estate. Its a very bimodal situation.
Last time we bottomed nobody really knew it and the bottom lasted about 2-4 years/ Essentially flatline from 94-97. Being in the realty business myself for 17 years I've been having interesting conversation with individuals that have gained great wealth thru real estate over realistic time periods...read: decades. Yes, my parents bought a house in 1986 for around 70K that is now free and clear and is redeemable (paper value) at around $600K. I've got one really smart client friend that bought land in the mid 60's for around 50K and sold in 1998 for around $1.8M. The individual then reinvested quite prudently. Real estate was never a get rich quick scheme.... The tree is being shaken quite violently right now.
"When everyone starts talking about it, it's already over."
Only if all the major factors in the situation are already known and anticipated. But in a speculative economy like this that no one even claims to completely understand, unknown factors tend to come into play just as the major actors start to clink glasses and congratulate themselves on their survival.
Real estate was never a get rich quick scheme.... The tree is being shaken quite violently right now.
pjt - a lot of us here agree, real estate can be a GREAT investment for the right people at the right times... expectations got distorted the last few years. What else can you say?
There is no way to judge at this point how long this problem will last because we have only just started to see foreclosures hit the market. Losses are just starting to be compiled.
The financial markets are in panic mode because they have no idea what the total losses will be, hence they can not calculate what the value of the securities they have invented are. The more they panic the worse they make it for themselves. This is no longer just a sub-prime problem it is a problem with how Wall Street does business.
I believe that the credit markets are freezing in part because big money people don't want to deal with crooked Wall Street companies like BSC anymore.
As is usually the case consumers will get to pick up the tab. The consumers will be stuck with the problem of paying higher rates on most loans and will be left to live in a home that may be worth less than what they purchased it for.
I guess we should thank Lewis Ranierie and Michael Milken for inventing these great mortgage backed products that have made our credit markets so much more efficient.
albrt, the peak for existing home sales was June 2005, the peak in RI as a % of GDP (residential investment) was in Q4 2005; the peak for New Home sales was in July 2005.
I'd say the timing of the Time cover story was pretty close.
Best to all.
"The educated consensus is that the worst will hit this year and 2008 will see improvement and that the housing bust will not spill over to the rest of the economy."
Tell that to Jimmie Cayne. He'll be reassured.
When NAHB sentiment tracks a rising trend for at least three months running, I'll begin looking for an architect. I can't predict when that will be; it's just a bellwether.
The study indicated that BW was a good canary, and died right on time. Now the canary hopes to kill itself, to predict a mine disaster?
It don't work dat way...
Though magazine cover stories about a trend naturally appear at time when it has reached an extreme level, they don't necessarily mark the turning point. The famous Business Week "Death of Equities" cover that is often cited as marking the end of the 70's bear market actually appeared several years before any noticeable recovery began. And Newsweek's "Everyone's Getting Rich But Me!" cover on the 90's boom was also several years ahead of the top.
Just another example of why the mainstream media is circling the drain. The blogosphere was onto the housing bubble literally years ago; I distinctly recall finding this blog and others (housing doom, housing panic) back in 2005.
Of course we were initially ridiculed as bears, doom mongerers, and party poopers. What's that I smell in the air ... vindication?
Once the general public finally gives up on their dreams of real estate riches, then we'll be near the bottom. But I see little evidence that has happened.
It's a lot scarier for mainstream mags to sound the warning rather than pretend everything is just wonderful (advertisers really want that wonderful part) Hence you have a $weet home cover when you should have had a cover saying 'Crazy loans for Overpriced Homes'
That said, I think anyone betting that BW has inadvertently called the bottom should take a breath. This is a huge story and will be played out over years --with hedge fund and bank bonfires (and then I fear neighborhood ones) to come. When the 5th or 6th bad-news cover happens, maybe I'll start shopping.
I think BW knows the cover curse is real and people believe in it. So, to make people believe that the mess is over, they came up with this cover. Nice try BW!
I long for the day when sex sold magazines.
Aren't Time/Fortune/Forbes/Money all just content generators for AOL now?
NJMortgages wrote I guess we should thank Lewis Ranierie and Michael Milken for inventing these great mortgage backed products that have made our credit markets so much more efficient.
You know, it's all in the execution. There wouldn't be all these problems is the underwriting on the loans going into these pools had been reasonable.
On the top of Fortune's cover from the a couple weeks ago (July 17th?) featuring Bill Gates in China. The top (above FORTUNE) said "The greatest economic Boom Ever."
Enough said.
MOM.."it's all in the execution. There wouldn't be all these problems is the underwriting on the loans going into these pools had been reasonable"...which raises a very interesting question. How much of the problem is due to inaccurate/fraudulent data on the individual mortgages, versus how much of it is due to incorrect assumptions used in the models for calculating the riskiness of the pools?
I thought the "cover curse" needed to have multiple magazines produce similar covers on the same week to be effective.
One BW cover story by itself does not signal a "bottom" when none of the other biz mags confirm it with their own cover story.
(I am egotistical enough that I don't mind repeating myself.) Real estate is local but credit is national and darn near everybody buys real estate on credit. So watch the money. When the purse strings are loosened to disburse funds for morgages then we will be at the bottom.
"When Time runs a cover story titled "Why you should rent instead of own," then it may be indeed time to declare a bottom."
I say this is about right, because that indicated the bottom last time around. The bottom is not marked by everyone realizing that builders are having a hard time. The bottom is marked by everyone believing real estate is a bad investment (which is exactly what happens at the end of every real estate cycle).