Let Rome burn!!!

No bailout for you! You made the bad loans and so pay the price

CR,

Isn't the "predominant" language a bit weaker than past annoucements? Looks to me like the bias moved a little bit.

I gotta go check

I'm on the west coast and I can almost hear Wall Street from here..."come on baby, just one more fix, please, you gotta give me just one more fix...I promise I'll get clean after, just one more...."

Could Cramer have been right for once?

Yes, Ben and the boys are NUTS!

I am glad I sold in May of 2006.

obody thinks Cramer is nuts, not Ben.

CR,

Forget it, I was wrong. The language is the same as June's.

Kramer meltdown coming in 5, 4, 3, 2......

The FED would love to lower interest rates but this would cripple the U.S.$. As usual, sitting on the sidelines for longer than what is required will ensure that both the U.S. economy AND U.S.$ will fall sharply. At least by acting now, the FED has a chance of saving one of them. Buy physical gold and silver to buffer the upcoming crises.

Fireworks

I'm too lazy to read the statement. Could someone give me the gist ala their view on tanking mortgage crap?

Banker, they added some language about the credit market and that "the downside risks to growth have increased somewhat" - so maybe that is a baby step in changing the bias - but the bias still remains.

Best to all.

No No No, not nuts. They mentioned the credit contraction to the minimum extent possible. Notice not a word about the fact that it's going to crush housing...just, "the housing correction continues."

YOU BET IT DOES BEN. He really must be crappin some bricks right now.

I'm impressed with my boy Ben.

Way to go!

Im glad to see there is no bail out. Its not the FED's job to bail out industries and companies that made bad investment decisions. Its their job to make sure to keep things balanced. They were put there to have some oversight. Not to dictate the direction of the market. However, I cant help but ask the question, who does this market really benefit? When a Prime borrower with a solid FICO score over 700 who is going for a Jumbo loan is getting 8% and a sub-prime borrower has a chance to get 6.6%, I have to question the fundamentals of the market right now. I do believe inflation has to be the 1st concern as well.

Remember peeps...it's all a confidence game, um, wait, I mean, Ben has to make sure confidence is maintained. That's better.

Good.

To lower the rates would reward the crocks that have been the creators of this mess. As usual, they want easy money and fun-times for themselves while we wage-slaves who actually have to work for a living see our salaries and savings get crushed by inflation.

If Ben B. is smart, he will not lower rates for a LONG time. Lowering rates would crush the consumer, who will suddenly be looking at more expensive imports - which is practically everything these days - while enjoying $5 a gallon gas and a dwindling salary paid in increasingly worthless paper (the dollar). That would be far worse than the current situation of letting the "Big Boyz" suffer for their misdeeds while perhaps eventually letting housing return to affordable prices.

Jimmy Cayne will turn into Cramer now!

That has to be one of the sharpest market inflection points I have seen yet. The Fed rate announcement and bang! It will be interesting to see if it continues downwards and if it does so quick or slow.

Yep Andrew. Down she goes!

Look at that coordinated move down!I'm telling ya all the hedgies got together last night in Greenwich and PLANNED THIS!

/tinfoil hat

More seriously, good job Ben!

If the Fed lowers the Fed Funds rate, the dollar gets even weaker, and the 10 yr note (the note on which long term mortgages are indexed) will have its rate moving skyward. That will end any kind of housing recovery possibilities.

If the Fed raises rates to protect the dollar and stave off inflation, the economy could go into instant recession. The Fed is exercising the only option it has left, which, in the words of G.W. Bush, is to stay the course. And, as in Iraq, this 'strategy' will not work forever.

By keeping rates steady despite the turmoil in the mortgage markets, the Fed is saying that excess liquidity is still the primary threat (see yesterday's stock market for an example).

The Fed remians in "Punch Bowl Removal" mode.

This is the correct course of action, though I would have preferred a 150bps rate hike. But you can't have everything you want.

Ben did what he had too. The guys at the Fed are behaving like adults.

It's refreshing!

Palliative changes, but not enough to provide support to the market.

Oh well, the changes in jumbo availability will shut down the California housing market that was still functioning. It will be interesting to watch how long it takes to adjust to a new equilibrium with higher rates and lower prices.

I suspect it will be much lower prices due to down payment requirements.

This will be very interesting when Wall Street finally realizes that Gentle Ben is no Easy Al- I can't wait to see the Fed minutes from this one.

Well, it is safe to short just about anything that is leveraged right now.

Not quite reassuring enough, but with pipeline inflation baked into the cake, the value of the dollar must be preserved. In other words, homeowners will suffer until wages rise sufficiently to cover the underwater mortgages.

Well, I for one won't be buying any rental real estate until late next year, if then.

Someday this war's gonna end...

sub-prime borrower has a chance to get 6.6%

Correct that..... NO chance

Hey! Some clown named mehl said we were closing at 14,000 today so i dumped all of my money into an index fund. What happened?

Just kidding, of course.

Called_Bluff:

I should restate, non-prime. National average is 6.68, so Non prime, say Alt-A category, should be able to get around 7%. Prime conforming loan could get the Average. My point was that if your prime and a wealthy buyer, your getting the highest interest rates.

the Committee's predominant policy concern remains the risk that inflation will fail to moderate as expected... (emphasis added)

BTW during the NASDAQ bubble, people who knew Greenspan personally claim that he manufactured the inflation excuse to justify raising rates when his real intention was to pop the bubble (which the Fed has no authority to do and may actually violate their mandate to keep employment high).

I suspect something similar is happening here.

This is a learning experience for me. I expected the Fed to cut last Fall (like 2 meetings after they stopped raising).

I read a while back that no time has the Fed ever stopped raising rates for more than 2 meetings without the next up/down move being an ease.

So, unless the good folks here are expecting an unprecidented continuation of rate hikes for the next up/down decision, my question to everyone is - when do you think they'll cut?

I'll think they'll cut 50bp in an emergency session in November.

Banker,
This market's weakness is the perfect opportunity to pick up some solid performers with a strong dividend yield.

the fed did and said the right thing. and, i agree with nobody who thinks cramer is nuts. now i'm just wonder if we'll see another 300 pt day... down, that is.

AllenM. I agree 100%.

I do think the possibility (reality) of home prices falling screws up every risk model currently being used in the MBS market, so the market is in chaos.
However, at some point people are going to remember that a mortgage to a prime borrower with a significant down payment is the lowest risk investment this side of gov't bonds. The market will start to unstick itself soon and return to the right level. The “old-school” 20% down jumbo loan will be back near 6% by fall with or without the fed getting involved.

Bernanke,

"A deer in the headlights"

History will not be kind to this poor guy.

if the fed lowers now they will have no other ace to pull when things get REAAALLLYYY ugly.

I don't have a strong opinion on Bernanke yet. But the guy has been left with an incredible mess to clean up, and I think history will at least recognize that the mess was not of his making.

Ben is showing huge cojones. Huge!

He'll cut when the economic slow down starts showing hints that inflation pressures are down.

Btw we do not have an economic slowdown yet. That is still ahead of us.

Are we putting too much importance on the FED rate given current global macroeconomic conditions? The conundrum etc. The FED rate is just a short-term lending rate to banks, correct? Do I misunderstand the importance? It seems like carry trades, currency manipulation etc. are much more important.

dis, take a look at the numbers. We CLEARLY have a slowdown. We dont yet have an official recession, but remember, they are always backdated.

hmm, seems like the professor knows what he is doing. i am gonna change the Einstein photo at home with Bibi Smile

If th Fed drops rates, then that makes US debt purchases less attractive to Japan and China, isn't that the cruz of the problem?

"When a Prime borrower with a solid FICO score over 700 who is going for a Jumbo loan is getting 8% and a sub-prime borrower has a chance to get 6.6%, I have to question the fundamentals of the market right now."

Look at the dollar value of the likely loss and then decide why there is a lot of risk priced in to $1m loans.

I don't have a strong opinion on Bernanke yet. But the guy has been
left with an incredible mess to clean up, and I think history will at least recognize that the mess was not of his making.

I agree. I am beginning to see more and more references to "Greenspan's Mistakes" in the news than I ever have before. If this continues, and Ben keeps holding the line, Bernanke will be looked at as the responsible parent who had to clean up after the house party his kid threw.

Geoff, you are right. Second Quarter faster than first but third is slower. Granted.

Slow down has not been going for long enough to abate inflationary pressures.
The productivity numbers were lower.

Also the Dollar is a big worry.

I always like to read the doom and gloom predictions, then watch the market shoot right back up. Just goes to show you none of us really know what is going to happen.

I agree. I am beginning to see more and more references to "Greenspan's Mistakes" in the news than I ever have before. If this continues, and Ben keeps holding the line, Bernanke will be looked at as the responsible parent who had to clean up after the house party his kid threw.

We're not just talking about a house party. It's one where alcohol was served to minors, somebody left drunk, and killed innocent bystanders.

Nobody thinks Bernanke is partly responsible for the mess. He was the second-in-commad in Greenspan Fed and made public speeches about how he was going to throw money from helicopters to create inflation.

prime borrower with a significant down payment is the lowest risk investment this side of gov't bonds.

I believe that prime borrower is a step away from an oxymoron...

With some thought, the only person I could believe would be Prime is Fully retired gov't or military with 30 year's service and excellent credit thru out that period...
they've got a lock on retirement money barring gov't dissolution...
Anyone else is subject to job loss/low time period of credit history/etc...

Barely:

I agree with you. In this market where RE is in a slide, a Jumbo loan would have more losses if prices continue to decline. In Theory and fundamentally, those with higher credit scores are supposed to get lower rates in normal market conditions. This, obviously, is not a normal market condition.

obody.

Helicopter Ben is Big Cojones Ben now.

My Take cross posted from Zacks.com

The Fed meeting just ended with no change in the Fed funds rate. Below is the current statement, interspersed with the previous statement and my commentary. As expected, they left the fed funds rate unchanged. They modified the language only slightly and actually maintained a tightening bias. I suspect the market will find the tone of the statement very disappointing.

The Federal Open Market Committee decided today to keep its target for the federal funds rate at 5-1/4 percent. (Today)

The Federal Open Market Committee decided today to keep its target for the federal funds rate at 5-1/4 percent. (June)

Sort of self explanatory, the Fed has been on hold since last Summer after a string of consecutive increases that brought rates up from 1.00% to 5.25%

Economic growth was moderate during the first half of the year. Financial markets have been volatile in recent weeks, credit conditions have become tighter for some households and businesses, and the housing correction is ongoing. Nevertheless, the economy seems likely to continue to expand at a moderate pace over coming quarters, supported by solid growth in employment and incomes and a robust global economy. (Today)

Economic growth appears to have been moderate during the first half of this year, despite the ongoing adjustment in the housing sector. The economy seems likely to continue to expand at a moderate pace over coming quarters. (June)

The Fed threw the markets a bone with a bit more of an acknowledgment that there is a problem with credit availability. Not to have had some mention of that would have shown the Fed totally divorced from reality. They put a little more meat on the bones as to why they expect the U.S. economy to grow. The answer lies abroad. Once the U.S. was the locomotive of world economic growth, today we are one of the box cars being dragged along by others. No sense of urgency in the communication. They try to minimize it as tighter conditions for some households and businesses, as if they are just isolated instances.

Readings on core inflation have improved modestly in recent months. However, a sustained moderation in inflation pressures has yet to be convincingly demonstrated. Moreover, the high level of resource utilization has the potential to sustain those pressures. (Today)

Readings on core inflation have improved modestly in recent months. However, a sustained moderation in inflation pressures has yet to be convincingly demonstrated. Moreover, the high level of resource utilization has the potential to sustain those pressures. (June)

Didn’t change a thing, not even a comma.

Although the downside risks to growth have increased somewhat, the Committee's predominant policy concern remains the risk that inflation will fail to moderate as expected. Future policy adjustments will depend on the outlook for both inflation and economic growth, as implied by incoming information. (Today)

I

hahah market is up 100 yet Asia tumbles...with all the negative comments and credit contraction, I have to ask who is investing their money in this scam...PPT hard at work as usual.

What a farce.

G.19 Released
Consumer credit increased at an annual rate of 5-1/2 percent in the second quarter of 2007. In June, consumer credit increased at an
annual rate of 6-1/2 percent.

Revolving credit increased 8.4 percent.

we are all screwed,

can hardly believe my eyes. where is the "money" coming from to buy the market?

There might be something to Ben's plan.. The Economist just posted an article stating that now might not be such a bad time for a credit squeeze, if done right, just to push through a healthy repricing of risk.

Premium content | Economist.com 

Market turmoil
A good time for a squeeze

Aug 2nd 2007
From The Economist print edition
Tighter credit conditions are just what the markets need

BANKERS and investors might not agree, but the recent sell-off in financial markets is good news. It may, at last, have brought people to their senses. For the past few years, too much money has been lent too cheaply and too easily to too many people, whether it was speculators trying to make a fast buck in Miami condominiums or private-equity groups financing their latest multi-billion-dollar takeover. This wake-up call came too late to save the American housing market from frenzy and subsequent bust. But it may have arrived in time to stop the takeover boom getting out of control—and when the world economy is strong enough to cope with the consequences.
Watch out for the American consumer

The big question now is how serious those consequences are likely to be. The impact on debt markets themselves will be big (see article). As standards are tightened, many of the reckless practices that have become the norm in corporate lending will be abandoned. We will now hear a lot less about firms getting “covenant lite” loans, under which lenders give up their rights to monitor the behaviour of borrowers; or “payment-in-kind notes”, which allow borrowers to substitute more IOUs for interest payments. As investors steer clear of riskier debt, the takeover bids that have pumped this year's stockmarket froth will be curtailed and the most debt-laden borrowers may find it impossible to raise funds.

But most companies will be able to shrug off the credit squeeze. That is partly because creditworthy borrowers still have access to debt (albeit at a higher price), and partly because many firms don't have to borrow. Across the rich world, firms are flush with cash. Their profits have been fat for the past five years and, on average, companies have been funding their capital spending from their own resources. Credit wobbles by themselves, therefore, need not prompt an investment slump.

...

Yet although banks are the biggest worry, their balance sheets look fairly solid. America's commercial banks bought back $58 billion-worth of their shares in the year to March, suggesting they have capital to spare. And although banks' shares have tumbled over the past few weeks, analysts are still forecasting higher profits for the year ahead. If the solidity of bank finances is to be tested, the markets have chosen a good time to do so.

Credit cycles are unpredictable creatures. Things could still go badly wrong. So far, though, the financial wobbles, however unnerving, look like a healthy repricing of risk. Markets, much lik

BTW there was no dissent.

Continued:

In these circumstances, the Committee's predominant policy concern remains the risk that inflation will fail to moderate as expected. Future policy adjustments will depend on the evolution of the outlook for both inflation and economic growth, as implied by incoming information. (June)

Just a little bit of a nod to what has happened in the credit market, but doing everything in their power to minimize the situation without looking like they are from a different planet. The key words are that they see the predominant risk is that inflation will not continue down. Thus they still have a tightening bias. While I had expected no change in the Fed Funds rate, I had expected much more in terms of a change in the policy language. I find the statement to be disappointing and I’m sure the market will to. Basically its saying we are not going to do anything to address the housing/mortgage situation until there is a real chance that one of the “too big to fail” banks (like C, JPM, BAC) is in trouble. As far as the credit market is concerned, the cavalry is not about to come over the hill, not that we expected to show up. However, with this statement, the Fed is saying they are not even saddling up their horses, although they are willing to listen to further reports.

Wow, a hundred and fifty points down and a two hundred points up in less than an hour!

The market, driven by the hedge funds and or PPT or who ever is able to boorow as much YEN as they want is acting as if there was a rate cut.

They still want to take out the shorts who correctly bet that there would be no cut so they keep driving financials and HB up....

It's heading back down fast!

Now the charts just look silly.

FWIW, I heard from a guest on Bloomberg Radio just now there is massive programmed buying of ETFs by hedge funds. There definately was a huge buy volume and price spurt right at 3pm.

Yal,

If there had been a rate cut, this market would be up 2%.

Banker, if there had been rate cut the dollar would have been down 2% by now.

Just the start of the free fall.

InOrlando -

I for one do not think they'll cut until 2008 and even if they cut today it would have a temporary effect on the stock market only (pyschologically for a few days at best). The 10 year bill is at 4.70 - the market has already gotten 2 rate cuts effectively. In case you didn't notice, the Fed couldn't control long-term rates on the way up and they WON'T be able to control them on the way down. Nothing will change except the value of inflated assets going down. Enjoy!

If there had been a rate cut, this market would be up 2%.

Banker, if there had been rate cut the dollar would have been down 2% by now.

Probably both of you would be right. This stupid market is whipsawing back and forth on the news that there is no change. Can you imagine the impact of an actual rate change? All I hope is that my company's traders were long on volatility.

If there would have been a change in tone the market would be up 2%. rate cut would have been 5%

but also look here:

China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales - Telegraph

Banker, it's on the way to a 2% increase on no change.

This is insanity.

The sudden spike in the market after a big dip just looks like more PPT action. Punish the people who shorted the market because they knew well enough that there would be no rate cut. On the plus side, driving the market up reduces the odds of a rate cut... maybe the guys running the casino will let things plummet tomorrow so they can get back to begging for a cut? Who knows...

its one massive short squeeze. short into it and you will be rewarded sooner than later.

Oh boy Cramer is going to convulse.

They better have the paramedics near by.

He'll go way quicker through his crystal meth stash.

The FED decision could be expected like this. Overall, the economy is in good shape and my prediction for GDP growth in Q3 and Q4 is 3% on average (Q3 lower, Q4 higher). No need for the FED to take any action. Markets will reprice risk and punish big risk takers as they are supposed to do.

O-Joe

Eh...I need some Dramamine and a shot of Jack...

bad news at inflection pts in the economy is expected to cause increased volatility. if you can't stomach it, get out.

O-Joe a credit squeeze or crunch is not necessarily a repricing. Is a lack of appetite, and market inaction at any price.

This kind of volatility reflects the uncertainty and stress building in the financial system. I would say the countdown to a fat-tail dislocation event has begun.

cr, u should post the Bloomberg thing that highlights language changes.

professional traders love this kind of volatility. rape you on the way up and the way down. just do the same thing and try to stay one step ahead of them.

the other way to deal with this is to put your money down on the REAL economy. everyone knows housing and lending is going into the tank. even the pros. short them and sit tight. it will only get worse as the end of yr with all those resets start kicking in.

It's not Big Cojones Ben, it might have been had there been an increase in the rate. He knows that the 'risk' of inflation is high.....he's been printing boyz and girlz. Cut? That's an old paradigm since the presses have been running full tilt. Besides, Mish has demonstrated that a cut won't help this time around. No cuts this year. Sorry Charlie, it's a new world. Housing may take down the economy but it's too late for a rate cut to fix that issue anymore.

Based on Market action the secret meeting must have taken place. The Bankers must have worked it out.

Why do I think this?,

1) FNMA release yesterday.
2) The meeting talked about yesterday in NYC.
3) SEC statement that was made.
4) Rumor is, behind the scenes FED says "discount window is open" and they are "lender of last resort".

Bankers are probably going to stop "margin calling everything they see"(see Bear, Leh et all)- For now.

I still think more action was needed (FED cut)- we will see.
MEW must be delaying what I believe is the ultimate direction of the economy (Q2 data on MEW actually went up over Q1- posted by Tanta,thanks).

The Fed told Cramer and the other market drama queens to pitch a bigger fit to get their attention. I don't doubt that the lads will do so before long.

Slow -

The discount window is a 24/7 operation - a phone call away, no?

Wells jacked the rates because they can't effectively determine the risk... others will follow suit. If I ran a mortgage operation, I'd be pulling back as well. COMMON SENSE.

Do you not understand that the 10yr T note is at 4.7? What would a rate cut accomplish at this point?

While I think "real" inflation is higher than advertised, a rate cut would not heal the wound that is our financial system. Our entire economy is a sham at this point. Monopoly money with too many "Park places and Boardwalk's" than "Baltic Ave. and Mediterranean Ave's".

America needs to make stuff, export and save. period.

"America needs to make stuff, export and save. period"

Save! what is wrong with you man. These days if you are a saver people consider you strange and weired.

MoM or CR,

Is there a precedent for having this level of consumer credit growth coincident with such anemic consumer spending growth? Somewhere in there is a story about the decline in the efficiency (dollar of output per dollar of borrowing) of credit.

Another way of putting it: less MEW, more plastic, but also less spending.

O-Joe a credit squeeze or crunch is not necessarily a repricing. Is a lack of appetite, and market inaction at any price.

This is important I think. I keep hearing about a "repricing of risk," as if that is what is going on. It isn't. What has happened is that there is no price for risk in the credit markets right now.

If they settle down so that there is again a price for risk, it doesn't matter a great deal what the new paramaters are, as long as there are parameters. If risk is repriced, we are largely out of the woods in the credit markets. But that isn't where we are now.

Risk repricing is only beginning.
It will not be complete until long rates rise and equity prices fall.

There are competing products out there, after all.

Banker,

I disagree. ABX shows the current `price of risk' everyday. The only problem is that this price of risk is a death sentence for subprime lenders. They are unhappy with the price and claim the market froze. Well, it froze for the prices they want but not for any price.

Wells Fargo is only charging 7%, not 8%, for 30-yr fixed Jumbos to direct borrowers.
https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ 

And if you're a truly prime borrower, with >$250k deposited at Wells, they might even give you a discount. But if you're that liquid, would you want or need to borrow at this time and at these rates?

Banker,
Is it safe to say the market is frozen because no one is able to assess the risk?

At least with a box of chocolate, you know you'll get some chocolate.

What the market needs to know is not how to re-price risk for current credit demand but the risk that is already present in the debt already outstanding. That needs to be determined FIRST. As in EXPOSURE. Actual market price of current outstanding debt instruments.

Once that gets partially digested we will find that we have a long deep dark cliff to drop over and finding the bottom isn't going to be fun. Goldilocks isn't waiting for anyone at the bottom of the cliff. It's the grim reaper.

Banker-

Normally, I would let your baseless comments pass, but, here I have to draw the line.

"This is important I think. I keep hearing about a "repricing of risk," as if that is what is going on. It isn't. What has happened is that there is no price for risk in the credit markets right now."

Risk, has been repriced, contrary to your ludicrous comments. Risk, trades freely everyday, it traded Friday, yesterday, today, and it will trade tommorrow.

What there is "no price for in the credit markets" (and rightly so), is the utter shit that you and your constituents had/have created. Why? Because the market has sent a clear message that if your produce enough "shit" you will soon eat it whole/in part. That there is no price for shit today because it cannot be passed on to another shit-holder at a profit, that worthless is far better in the hands of the creator, and that this alone will ultimately cease the desire to peddle the garbage onto institutional & retail in the future.

The market has repriced risk, the market has also created a whole new set of bagholders. Allow me to bring another little gem of information to your like, the lack of tolerance when all is said & done will last years.

Clearly it's hyperbole to say there is no price for risk, on a day when Bear sold $2.5B 5-yr at a spread of 245.The market marked Bear at Baa3, next stop junk.Marked to model by S&P as A+, and by Moody's as A1.

Barely -

Spot on. Here is my dumb little analogy:

If I was to tell you that a 2" x 4" piece of wood that cost $5 dollars in 2003 would cost $15 dollars in 2006, would you believe me? Given that the supply of wood was to remain constant.

I would say probably not, if you know anything about construction costs.

My point is; the "value/price/cost" of the majority of homes sold in the bubble areas exploded with NOTHING to make the price increase realistic. I worked construction during the summers from college in 04, 05 as a finish framer. You would not believe the "corner cutting" techniques that went on during the boom.

Land started to get real expensive towards the end, but the big builders had purchased a lot of it pre-boom, as it takes a considerable amount of time to get permits. Concrete was a little expensive for a while, but not 150% more expensive.

People are now realizing that they paid WAY too much for a crappy stucco box 6 feet away from a neighbor. The people in NYC have NO IDEA how bad it is to live in a crappy stucco commune where the entry price was 6 to 7 times annual salary.

Boo friggin' stoopid.

Finally, an adult in charge. ;^)

But Ben, we want our helicopters!

DustDevil,I watched this stuff going up here in sonoma county,and your comments on the construction quality understate the problems.Much of these homes will be uninhabitable in a few years because it is full of mold or quite literally falling apart,and this is NOT an isolated problem.I told one potential buyer two years ago to get a 15 year loan because the home he was considering buying would not be standing in 30 years no matter how much work he put into it...I got the usual thanks.

Dustdevil said,
"Do you not understand that the 10yr T note is at 4.7?
What would a rate cut accomplish at this point?"

They don't do rate cuts on 10 yr Treasuries. They cut the overnight bank lending rate.

Help the IB's and Banks with liquidity and have a physcological impact.

Not to mention ARM's are based on indicies that react to short term rates (Libor etc). This would lower borrowing costs for those that cannot refinance due to credit being tight.

Terminal,

Very fair point. There is no price for high-yield rated risk in the corporate markets today. Better?

Lama,

I think things in the junk world aren't trading and new issues aren't happening because buyers believe they will not yet be rewarded for acting. I suspect they believe that good credit work is insufficient when the psychology is so poor. There is simply no urgency to act.

Barely,

I actually think it will sort of work the other way, at least it did in 1998. The market didn't fully reprice until new issues got done and tings got re-marked off those. Now to be fair it wasn't quite that simple, but the new issues played an earlier role than one might think. I suspect that'll happen here as well.

Riskcapital,

Did you say something?

poszi,

Sorry, I missed you last time around. Terminal correctly made the same point and I made a more limited claim. Better?

The people in NYC have NO IDEA how bad it is to live in a crappy stucco commune where the entry price was 6 to 7 times annual salary.

They have NO IDEA what it's like out there! They are a SHAME, they are SHAMEFUL! My people have been in this business for 25 years and they are LOSING THEIR JOBS! BOOYAH!

They don't do rate cuts on 10 yr Treasuries. They cut the overnight bank lending rate.

This distinction makes virtually no difference at all if the lenders do not believe they are going to be paid back.

They don't do rate cuts on 10 yr Treasuries. They cut the overnight bank lending rate.

This distinction makes virtually no difference at all if the lenders do not believe they are going to be paid back.
albrt | 08.07.07 - 7:48 pm | #

Uh what

Risk Capital said,

Blah blah blah blah.
Now tell us how you really feel. Smile

You buy packaged shit too it's called fertilzer.

fertilzer... LoL slo mo

Sorry I don't proof read I just type fast and send.
Smile

Banker-

I am quite sure you got the point.

I am also quite sure you got laid off following the Everquest fiasco.

slo mo I mistyped too.

I laughed at your comment (it was witty as hell) not the typo.

Sloow said:

They don't do rate cuts on 10 yr Treasuries. They cut the overnight bank lending rate.

Help the IB's and Banks with liquidity and have a physcological impact.

Not to mention ARM's are based on indicies that react to short term rates (Libor etc). This would lower borrowing costs for those that cannot refinance due to credit being tight.
sloooowwwwwmotion | 08.07.07 - 7:20 pm | #

The Discount window is open and ready for the poor, poor rich hedge funds not facing a liquidity problem. Ohhh, its the rate, you say...

I say too bad. The bankers made the bed, now they will lie in it. Psychological impact... that is a sham. These people should be just as worried about their livelyhood as the people that have been foreclosed on.

This isn't a liquidity problem, slow. Its a demand problem. Nobody has demand for products whose value can not be calculated physically or mathematically... and by gosh, "that be what we got."

Pretend I'm a F**KED borrower:

I paid $240K for my home in 2005. My ARM resets next month and I can't handle the increase in payments. The comps in my area are coming in at $195 - 205K.

1) Can I refinance, right now?

2) Could I have refinanced if the FED cut the rate 25bps?

Consider these new guidelines from a major mortgage lender to be named later before you answer:

-Only full doc loans allowed

-No Non OO (Owner Occupied) and second homes allowed

-Increased disposable income requirements on D/R's > 50% from $2000 to $3000

-No refinances of Vacant Properties

-No refinances of properties listed for sale in the last 3 months

-Limited ltv's on homes listed for sale > than 3 mos but less than 6mos for cash out refi's

-Loans in the pipeline will be repriced according to the current rate sheet unless they are in '"docs out" status or are Purchase transaction types in "Conditional Approval"
-All loans in the pipeline that are NOT O/O Full
-Doc must fund by August 17

-Appraisals must be less than 90 days old

-Appraisals must contain 1 comp sale< 3mos old and 1 current listing. All other comps provided must be < 6mos old

I am trying to sort out the global decoupling thesis that the bulls keep saying is the rationale for sustained corporate earnings growth. When the economy launched into recovery mode in 2003 it sure appeared to me that we took on a lot of debt to increase GDP marginally. It looked like our stimulus was creating as much growth in abroad as it was at home.

If this stimulus is removed through tightening credit, can China, Japan, Brazil and Russia pull the train?

The stock market seems to think yes, but I can't get over my doubts.

I meant fund and the financial industry in general... not hedge

Peconic -

Yes.

Welcome to the new "Nuclear Option" courtesy of the PBoC.

China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales - Telegraph

Dis,
Thanks for laughing. Smile

Thousands of comedians are probably out of work and I try to be funny. Shock

David Pearson Is there a precedent for having this level of consumer credit growth coincident with such anemic consumer spending growth?

Actually consumer credit in the short term isn't growing that much. The growth has definitely slowed.

If you look at consumer credit on a quarter to quarter basis (try the total numbers which are non-SA), you see a relatively conforming trend with a slight rise this year. Fourth quarter high, payoff in first quarter, second quarter starts to rise.

What was different this year is that the payoff has been slower, undoubtedly due to the inflation crunch on disposable income. Overall, consumer credit looks like a moderate to slow Christmas and continued tight spending up until then to finance it. In tight years many families really start constricting their spending on the weekly stuff in the summer to finance Christmas.

Publix' move to offer free antibiotics is a reflection of how tough the situation is for grocery stores.

I generally use the real income figures from the productivity releases for modelling the lower 2/3rds of income earners and today's release showed a decline in the second quarter.

Quarterly percent change real hourly compensation was
-0.7 for business and -2.0 for nonfarm business.

Annual percent change was
2.6 for business and 2.4 for nonfarm business.

Granted, the high level of expected resets on mortgages this year is likely to have some effect, but to me that falls in the category of wait-and-see. In some areas borrowers who are deeply underwater are just not paying and waiting to be foreclosed on, enjoying the free rent. For all I know it could be a net stimulus in the short term in a few places like Sacramento.

Consumer credit will be revised of course, but the current numbers are:
Revolving:
2005 Q4: 849.8
2006 Q2: 840.9

2006 Q4: 903.4
2007 Q2: 899.0

Non-revolving:
2005 Q4: 1476.2
2006 Q2: 1484.4

2006 Q4: 1527.4
2007 Q2: 1543.3

Total:
2005 Q4: 2326.0
2006 Q2: 2325.3

2006 Q4: 2430.8
2007 Q2: 2442.3 (note increase)

Also the Compucredit numbers for the last three quarters show a real balancing act going on. Capital One supposedly raised rates across the board, and I wonder if they will see a rise in defaults.

Banker, risk, get a room, for crying out loud. It's embarrassing watching two people so clearly in love fight like this.

Cheers,
prat

Risk,

Correct again! I have been retired for seven years!

Prat,

Thanks for your concern, but there is no room for profanity in the Bankerdome Smile

Cramer responds to the Fed (in)action.

Spins it as "we needed this", then at about 6:00 in the video basically says that the Financials, builders are going to get creamed, and that is a good thing.

Cramer

The video starts with Cramer watching the previous video of his meltdown. I'm not a regular Cramerite, but it seemed to me that he was going overboard on being subdued. He actual sounds rational.

Save yourself and don't listen past 9:00 when the phone calls start.

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