I also think that (not right now 'cause everybody needs dollars) a lower US dollar does increase import prices and causes a rise in the inflation rate.
"In compiling their business plans, officials of IHI Corp. forecast a yen exchange rate of 110 yen. Therefore, the current high rate has not been such a blow, they said.
However, IHI President Kazuaki Kama said, "If a strong yen trend should continue further, our shipbuilding and commercial airplane engine sectors will be affected negatively."
Officials of Fujitsu Ltd. also said a further appreciation of the yen would hurt their information technology-related equipment sector.(IHT/Asahi: August 17,2007)"
Unless there is a lot more financial stress my guess is the U.S. will drift into a mild recession. Strong growth in China and weaker, but still respectable, growth in most other countries will result in slower but still positive worldwide growth.
If this happens I would expect a very volatile next few months with small declines in high quality equities and larger declines in low quality securities. A "normal" but scary bear market.
On top of this, both Bear Stearns and Goldman Sachs have found that when funds bearing their name get into trouble the desire to preserve their reputations soon leads to a rescue. Sometimes risk is not as far away from the banks as it seems.
A hard lesson learned, and one that will slow (probably and hopefully not stop) the major IB's move into the next new thing. Probably not a bad outcome.
Disturbing insights from CA. In speaking to client's and prospects throughout the week a great many "investors" have 10-15 homes on I/O or neg-ams and are scrabling for financing that has disappeared. They want new financing but who lends on a money losing deal? This inventory will hit the market in a few months. Lots of SFR's in Los Angeles and Riverside especially. The Great Loan Blog
I was wondering why the stock market came roaring back today, but now I know that traders irrational fears were finally set to rest when they realized that the subprime problem was contained to the international financial system.
Before I stopped getting the Economusty, they seemed to publish an article every few months about the sad state of the banking system in China - the largely state-run, state-directed banking system. But $2.6bn is chump change to the Chinese economy. It's about 2-3 days of the trade deficit with the USA.
Greenspan threw a party for real estate,
Mortgage bankers too and then they dropped their rates,
Wall Street saw a chance and tranched'em up,
S&P and Moody's called it AAA stuff!
No bid, everybody no bid,
All the players in the mortgage biz,
Were avoiding mark to market bids
Wall Street did not figure out Main Street had a problem until it hit them between the eyes.
Consumers have been retrenching for about a year while Wall Street has pretended otherwise.
The pundits are now asking: "Are we there yet." i.e., Is this round of blood-letting over? This is simply the wrong question.
There nothing that says that aging boomers, realizing their pensions and house (equity) are not what they once thought or anticipated, decide to "go Japanese" -- forego consumption in favor of "forced" savings.
Such a tectonic (paradigm) shift by Main Street (consumers) probably matters far more than all of the toxic fall-out from Wall Street.
I have to bet it will lead to a global slowdown. The consumers of China, India are simply not geared as yet to buying on tick ( though they are getting there), to reduce saving and replace the US consumer. Even the infrastructure to support consumption isn't there - I'm thinking shopping malls of the style and type and quantity that we have here. That would take several years to develop. Throw in the change in psychology that's required - I'd say a decade or so - and IMO there is no chance that the US consumer will be replaced anytime soon. The rational bet has to be on a global slowdown.
Alot of folks expecting a bounce tomorrow. I wouldn't be so sure. Carry trade continues to unwind big time. Yen 112.66 to the dollar.
It was just the other night it was 116. One helluva move. Asia down again tonight. Dell cancels out HP.
CR,
as US 70 trillion household assets take a big hit ..and hedge fund redemptions continue...and emerging market spread (already widest today since 2005) keep widening...capital flows from emerging will come back to US propping USD (despite deficit!)
The outward flows will hit the emerging market as debt financing for them gets more expensive (just like the risky US homebuyer)
that 70 trill estimate can easily go down to 40 tril or so.
Banker, no, the $64 Trillion dollar question is, where do the Govt get $64 Trillion dollars for those unfunded liabilities......which have to start getting funded next year as the early retirees (besides Tanta) start collecting their checks.
Everyone talks about the credit crunch and its impact on the economy. That $64 Trillion question is the 64 Trillion pound gorilla in the room. David Walker is the keeper and is saying he's hungry...but no one, sigh, seems to be listening.....
The_Scum: The comments link requires javascript (to update the number of comments?). Maybe your blackberry web browser doesn't support javascript? I don't think haloscan notices that you don't have javascript and replaces the comment link with just a basic html link (doesn't seem to work when I tested disabling javascript). You should fill out a support request for them to disable javascript comment links for blackberry user-agent (or anything they can detect as not having javascript). From a quick search it looks like javascript was added with Blackberry Enterprise Server v4.0.
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As long as the 0% six-month credit card balance transfer is available, I think J6P can keep trucking along. If that disappears, we're completely screwed. Pretty similar to companies rolling over CP, but at 0%.
Keep in mind as the months tick on and bank capital declines - the FDIC historically closes banks on either Thursday or Friday typically Friday (unless there is a run then it is almost immediate to stop the run). Once FDIC begins its Friday press releases of bank closings there may be an abrupt market swing depending on the bank's size, etc.
The over-extended consumer will be spending less, but how about the ones who have little debt and sufficient cash? I could buy stuff - in fact I need a new car and could pay cash for it- but after the recent financial turmoil, I've decided to be cautious and wait another 6-months. I'm three days into my austerity diet which will consist mostly of tortillas and beans. I haven't been to Whole Foods for a week. So the subprime mess is already reducing my expenditures and Honda or Toyota are going to have to lower their revenue projections.
I think the question is not "will there be a spillover" but "how much damage to the global economy has the credit bubble made". USA is not the only place that is full of bad debt.
Lest we forget, we've got a Spanish, UK, Irish, and many other housing bubbles to unwind. You really think those are going to stay propped up as the US implodes? I sure dont...
And last I checked, foreclosures are already pushing up rapidly in the UK, even though prices have barely started to flatten. Imagine the rest of the damage to global credit markets when these other bubbles deflate. We have a long long painful ride down ahead of us, sorry to say.
Stronger Asia Seen as Better Able to Deflect ripples, or Big Waves, From U.S.
Well if Stronger Asia has a lot to do with that monster US trade deficit, then things might not work out so well.
It's worth considering that maybe Asian consumers simply don't share enough of the wealth created by business and government to consume the goods they produce.
Strong consumption requires political power and relative equality between labor and capital.
If US exports drop off in Asian countries and their laborers don't magically ascend to the status of "Super-Consumer" that took Americans years and years of excess borrowing and confidence to achieve, they could end up drowning in a nightmare of overcapacity and oversupply.
A hundred story building is only a good thing if you build it with the right materials.
Seems like the article is making the causal links that AC, me and others here have been trying to get through the thick skulls of some others recently, that the relative size of the US consumer market as a share of global GDP is pretty important, and kind of makes the decoupling argument silly on its face. It looks even sillier each day as the US consumer spending outlook fades.
And yeh, the Japanese dont seem to like the thought of the US consumer passing on their exports. Down only 4% so far tonight on the Nikkei.
Banker, no, the $64 Trillion dollar question is, where do the Govt get $64 Trillion dollars for those unfunded liabilities......which have to start getting funded next year as the early retirees (besides Tanta) start collecting their checks.
Shhh, don't raise that or you'll get accused of tainting FDR's legacy or robbing the poor or somesuch. Don't worry * throws magic pixie dust * it'll all go away...really.
the Asian mentality is to save, save, save after working 60h work weeks. ac's point about inequality btwn those controlling the business interests and the laborers is a good one. Chinese laborers get paid squat and will never equal the Joe average beer belly.
Eli posted this on the previous thread, and nobody bit. I'd like an answer to his exact questions as well... He said,
"Is it possible to direct all the nerdiness here towards understanding what could happen to the currencies of the world? You can fudge GDP numbers or unemployment numbers or inflation numbers... But you can't fudge the amount of $ people have to pay for Yen."
"Do these currency markets matter to the US? Can the central banks hold everything together?"
"I was reading through the 2005 postings on CR, and I really enjoy the postings on the U.S. debt.. I guess it can get boring since people have been blathering interminably about how unsustainable the national debt is... But, that's the real story (to me)."
"We are at a moment where people may begin to see that.. Even though the number on the screen says there's $1,000 in a given system... When they start trying to get some of that money out... They may find that it's only really $10."
"If you stack loads of derivatives (that depend on a set volatility) on top of the fractional reserve banking system, you have a huge potential problem."
"We're operating as if there's a lot more money in the system than there really is."
"Anyhoo, this is just my ramble... I know that there's a 99% chance that "everything will be fine".. It's just my wont to focus on this drastic risk no matter how improbable it is for it to ever become a material concern."
Does anyone even understand what I'm blathering about?"
Okay... me again...
How about my gold? What does the future hold for that? I'm almost completely out of that scrip crap.
China faces a triple-whammy of potential trade protectionism from the US government, a damaged reputation due to recent product quality issues, and a big US consumer spending pullback. Oh yeah, and they'll be hit by forced selling by hedge fund liquidations as well.
I don't see how they escape this without some serious hurt.
CR, I think it wil lead to a global slowdown, but I hold out hope that we are not talking depression, here is my half baked reasoning:
- definitely a hit from declinging MEW, but MEW is at 4% of DPI now, down from 8%, that's DPI not total income.
- definitely a hit to GDP of 1% or maybe more from housing slowdown
- some small benefit from perhaps cheaper oil and other commodities, assuming no dollar meltdown.
How horrible is the net effect of those things really?
The whole unwind is of course the problem, maybe there is some more efficient way to clean up the banking mess. Something about clearing out all the bankrupt middle men/hedge funds who are shaving points off the payments between the mortgage payer and the MBS/CDO holder. Empty out their offices and just leave a few computers there forwarding the cash while taking no skim LOL. You would think that each time a middleman goes BK, the cash payment has one less step to make to get to the bond holder.
The social security liabilities are easy to take care of, simply reduce benefits. Now there's a ponzi scheme -in the most real sense of the word!!
Medicare will cost much more than social security, that is the scary one.
80 million times $19 is $1.52 billion, btw. I'm sure the Orange Man is rich, but that seems a bit much to risk. Especially since there isn't a subtilely-manipulated quarterly report due out for a while.
Freaking Hell - This is starting to get into 1929 territory - I'm glad I looked at the size of the up and downs of the DOW during that time - and we haven't even seen any data regarding the global slowdown. Truly, equity markets are a forward looking discounting mechanism; except when they are backward looking; or coincident; or just nuts.
Asia doesn't disconnect.
While financial leverage is much lower than in the past, operating leverage has never been higher.
Look for y-o-y sales of California homes to be down 80% or so for the months of August and September. As 70% or so of all California homes would be financed via Jumbo's, and since that window along with Alt-A and Subprime being closed tells me that almost nothing sells this month or next. That'll tank export related cos. in Asia.
Arbogast Industries' finest extra-large BARFBAGS. With the Arbogast Industries explanation of the yen carry trade right on the outside. Often imitated, never duplicated, yours for only $1.49 apiece, buy ten and pay only $9.99, buy a gross, what we call a Countrywide, and we'll throw in a tinfoil hat!
"As goes housing - so goes the economy.
As goes the US - so goes the world.
Note to self - this time ain't no frigging different."
FYI, EU has now a lot bigger combined GDP and for example, the biggest trading partner of Germany is FRANCE, not US. Exports to US usually are less than 10 percent of total in most EU countries. US is nowhere as crucial to Europeans than during 50-80's.
Asians really are stupid idiots. Instead of investing money to support their domestic markets, they borrowed it all to flat-out broke Americans. They will never get their money back and now their economies have all kinds of bad malinvestments.
I have asked many people from other countries, one notable difference almost every one except American saves.
The prediction that China's export will suffer might be wrong, because cheap products from China are mainly purchased by relatively poor people in US ( Walmart). The dwindling population of middle class is a good blessing the cheap imports. When people want pinch pennies, they buy cheap stuff. Where are the cheap stuff come from? From places where labors are cheap. Seems common sense to me.
I have never understood the NZD-YEN carry trade: How can one expect to get 7% a year with more and more YEN coming in and not think about the day these funds will move back to Japan.
If someone would show me that in Japan they started to consume hugh amount of NZ dairy and in NZ they stopped buying Toyota I would say: OK there is a way for the other side of the carry trade to work - but that is not the case:
Japan does not need NZD and NZ does need YEN so when the carry trade money wants to come back home there is only one option:
and I recall someone here telling this is how Soros made his money: On getting higher yield. I don't know if true but this whole getting higher yield in NZD is a perfect ponzy scheme that only works as long as the NZ central bank willing to give money away and more and more jananese invetor going into NZD.
Countrywide Financial Corp. Rating Lowered To 'A-/A-2', On CreditWatch Negative
"The ratings will remain on CreditWatch Negative as Countrywide
transitions its mortgage business to one of lower volume and continues moving CHL's operations to the bank. It is transitioning to a dramatically different business model, as the bank will now be the majority source of funding, assets, and earnings for Countrywide. Should the liquidity challenges or the earnings impact from this transition and from credit costs that rise higher than we now expect accelerate, then ratings could be lowered one or two notches."
We have plunged into an liquidity crisis that was inevitable. Cash is now king, and the closer your assets are to cash (ie. the more liquid you are) the safer you are from harm.
Unfortunately, there isn't nearly enough cash to go around for all the credit that has been created.
So, the cash-rich will be able to snatch up plenty of bargain basement assets. But only for a while. The US (and other) governments will soon be forced to increase the amount of real cash to match the rapidly-shrinking amount of phoney cash (ie. extended credit). And the only way to do that is to hyperinflate.
I've been predicting for the last two years that everyone will be whipsawed by this process: first a deflationary collapse the makes cash desperately scarce, and then the printing presses roar into action and the cash becomes as worthless as Weimar marks. In short, neither cash nor gold alone will protect anyone. People need both. Cash to survive the first month or two, then gold to survive the coming hyperinflation.
(And then probably, as a few here have observed, guns.)
BTW, it seems not unlikely that before long there will be real runs on banks and other accounts, and so they will be frozen. It may save people a lot of pain they have a few thousand in cash at home.
During a production call today one of our branches reported a "run" on the local Countrywide Bank. Lines at the bank - parking lot overflowing into the street and neighboring busnesses. At first I thought it was typical misinformation until they said it was in Florida...
Those experienced people know when to pull their money and run. Posession is 9/10 of the law. FSLIC - SMSLIC.
"How long did you think we could sustain this bullshit? Agents inflating prices...buyers BUYING with no money invested...borrowers paying 1%...(seriously wow, 1% interest!)...the chop shop shadey brokers...the idiot loan officers who did not even know fundamental elements of finance, economics, and real estate...the appraisers who would push values based on remodeled grass and flowers...the banks giving 4+ points in rebate (wow)...the investors who bought them and sold them (wow again). "
"We have plunged into an liquidity crisis that was inevitable. Cash is now king, and the closer your assets are to cash (ie. the more liquid you are) the safer you are from harm".
What cash? We Americans don't have any!
No savings - Just Credit Cards.
Lets keep bowing down to our Chinese masters or we're goosed.
Banking sources said the Fed quietly softened its rules yesterday to let banks use ABCP loans as collateral, a move that effectively offers a government floor - until it starts trading again.
The Fed move, and a deal by Canadian banks to unfreeze Toronto's credit markets, helped calm the panic after the worst one-day fall on global bourses since the dotcom bust.
I also find it interesting that many feel that third world nations are going to suddenly become great consumers and pull the irons of debt ridden American over- spenders out of the fire.
I think that might be a huge miscalculation. Many of these countries have predicated their economies for exporting cheap goods- and not necessarily rising the living standards of their own population. I hardly think the majority of Asians are going to rack up debt and become 'like Americans'.
For the most part most of them are still very poor, and save most of their incomes. Even in rich Japan the savings rate is very high. This so called 'global economic boom' may turn out to be a paper tiger.
I am waiting for the market pundits to finally come to the realization that we are going into a prolonged period of low/subpar returns, this just when the boomer population is entering retirement.
The rates on "quality" assets will stay below the historical average for far longer then most wish to believe.
The focus will begin to shift from share buybacks to increased dividends. The quest to garner yield in both equity and fixed income markets will surprise many.
If the US should I enter recession, which is probable, the recession, at this point is likely to be mild, followed by an extended period of subpar growth. The calls for worse are unfounded, barring a significant, unforeseen economic shock.
The sooner we get through this hedge fund, leverage induced unwind, the better, and once again correlation will mean something.
Tough period ahead, but, far from what some morons are suggesting.
Amazing. This is exactly what I was thinking. I have thought long and hard about the "buying opportunity" ahead.
On one hand I thought about the smart money who existed in Sep 1929 and got back into the market only at the end of Nov 29 - they still lost a lot (70%-80%).
On the other hand I started thinking that maybe 6-8 mopnth from now I should buy stocks like AT&T, Verizon, BAC - things I never planned to hold.
From the American Bankruptcy Institute (their motto is kind of disheartening:
The Essential Resource for Todays Busy Insolvency Professional!):
The total number of U.S. bankruptcies filed during the first six months of 2007 increased 48.23 percent over the same period in 2006 in all bankruptcy court districts, according to data released today by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. Total filings reached 404,090 during the first half of the calendar year of 2007 (January 1-June 30), compared to 272,604 cases filed over the same period in 2006.
Filings by individuals or households with consumer debt increased 48.34 percent to 391,105 for the six-month period ending June 30, 2007, from the 2006 first-half total of 263,660.
risk capital "If the US should I enter recession, which is probable, the recession, at this point is likely to be mild, followed by an extended period of subpar growth. The calls for worse are unfounded, barring a significant, unforeseen economic shock".
Probable? When the economy is 70% housing related, no manufacturing industry and David Walker running around like a lunatic and screaming about unfounded liabilities we have reason to be VERY fearful.
It is a FACT that Cantarell crashing and most likely will have ran out in less than 4-7 years.
Where will us Americans get our oil from then? The Arabs will squeeze us dry and our Chinese masters will need all the oil for themselves.
That is some strange behavior from that LA Times article on CountryWide Bank...
"It's got my wife totally freaked out," he said. "I just don't want to deal with it. I don't care about losing 90 days' interest, I don't care if it's FDIC-insured -- I just want it out."
It is FDIC-insured...
Some "Bankerdome" type thinking going on out there.
(Of course, with all due respect to you...Banker, I know you are not really stocking up on tuna.)
grab a shovel, head out to the backyard, and dig a big hole. Bring all your canned goods and plenty of water. The artillary should be kept close at hand and the Confederate flag should fly above your hole.
Leave all of the dirt from the digging in a huge pile next to your hole so hopefully one of your sane neighbors can bury your sorry ass.
I'd like to see peoples' thoughts on the balance/efficacy of cb provisions of liquidity vs. massive deleveraging by hedge funds. What is the total equity (say as of June) of hedge funds est.? What was the leveraged total assets? Its apparent with the unwinding of the carry trade and the covering of positions in short, long, and emerging markets that they are in fact de-leveraging, yes? But of course there is still the insolvency of the MBS/CDO's pile of garbage. Question: is the deleveraging a deflationary force that can be effectively offset by fed injections or rate cuts?
Also, question: does the imbalance in the of the housing prolems in the US economy - epicenters California and Florida also make a cb reliquification ineffective in preventing a real economy economic downturn?
This question is a million miles OT, so pardon me, but I would appreciate some guidance from the many geniuses on this board.
I kept hearing that yesterday's Dow rally was a "classic short squeeze." But that doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like more "short covering," that is, shorters had to buy stocks to cash in their positions (mostly locking in profits, I presume).
Am I correct, or am just getting caught up in sloppy terminology by CNBC talking heads? Are a short "squeeze" and "covering" the same thing?
JudgeSmales is a stock or stocks is/are heavily shorted, any small move up creates a frenzy of short covering that feeds on itself and drives the price of the stock or stocks up.
judge: the action yesterday in CFC had everyone piling in on the short side, presumably on top of short positions already in place. When it hit 15 even a gong went off, and the covering started. We can guess it was established shorts (hedgies?) taking profits, but then everyone else started covering to protect their profits.
Total US Bank reserves are about 41 billion, which is, I think, about a half percent of total deposits. The other trillions have been loaned out, and if depositors start runs on other banks, as they are on Countrywide's, banks will be shut down by executive order. FDR did it, and other nations faced with a failure of fractonal reserve banking, have done it, too. Because, 41 billion divided by the US population would provide only about $130. per person, and you can bet it won't be divided up equally.
Sure, it's a fat-tail event. But it looks increasingly possible. FDIC is a sham. Reimbursement would take years, and be paid in inflated $$$.
And it's not entirely true that "no Americans have cash, only CC's." I do. My CC's, like my house and cars, are paid off, and I did it on blue-collar wages. I must be a "moron," eh, Risk Capital?
So here's advice from this moron. Whether in debt up to your eyeballs or not, stash greenbacks at home. You can always put cash back in the bank if the Pollyanna's turn out to be correct. But if our banks shut their doors for a few months, your family will starve.
Discount rate cut 50bp.....not sure when this happened.
Bit confused by the discount window. Cramer demanded that it be opened. I thought it was always open but he would know surely? I thought the idea of the higher rate was to discourage its use.
My mother always said to me that "i knew the price of everything and the value of nothing!"
I lost a shit load of money so far out of this:-( I am consoled greatly by the fact that my mother did in fact know best:-) I was wrong and by seeing her wisdom i can learn to be a bit less worried and a little more right.
Worried - I didn't at all mean to trivialize your situation, so my apologies.
I have no doubt Cramer makes money, in the same sense that Jerry Springer makes money. Both of them are very smart in a particular way. But there are more reliable sources of information, evidently, than Mr. C., as you no doubt realize.
Back to the steaks, 100 year-old scotch and cigars today, after the close, for all of Cramer's buddies who were calling him last week crying into the phone.
So, I guess the "Bernanke Put" is now in place? Discount window rate lowered, government buying up mortgage crud, etc.
Back to wheeling and dealing, lying and cheating, stuffing retirement accounts with crud, devaluing the dollar, and reducing the standard of living of Americans so the rich can afford a second weekend yacht.
Oh, and Countrywide was just UPGRADED. Please ignore the run on the banks - everything is fine!
Oh, it is effective. Keep the punch bowl spiked, housing unaffordable, salaries diminishing in the shadow of hyperinflation, and Wall Street rolling in the debt/money. Yep, really effective - for them.
Wait until gas hits $5 a gallon or some insanity in a couple of years and watch the Fed and the rest ponder how this could be? After all, as the patient was sobering up, they kept giving him more alcohol to maintain the present condition, and then the patient dies of alcohol poisoning. I just don't understand... such a conondrum...
Yes, I know I was going to wait for Tanta to post ... but I couldn't help myself.
Best to all.
Asia Times Online :: Asian news and current affairs
Central bank's easy virtue, easy money
By: Julian Delasantellis
The best media article read this week. Enjoy. It has been a long day.
As goes housing - so goes the economy.
As goes the US - so goes the world.
Note to self - this time ain't no frigging different.
I also think that (not right now 'cause everybody needs dollars) a lower US dollar does increase import prices and causes a rise in the inflation rate.
The $64 trillion question, right?
AND this is the big daily in Japan:
"In compiling their business plans, officials of IHI Corp. forecast a yen exchange rate of 110 yen. Therefore, the current high rate has not been such a blow, they said.
However, IHI President Kazuaki Kama said, "If a strong yen trend should continue further, our shipbuilding and commercial airplane engine sectors will be affected negatively."
Officials of Fujitsu Ltd. also said a further appreciation of the yen would hurt their information technology-related equipment sector.(IHT/Asahi: August 17,2007)"
Gary Shilling (my namesake) has made this prediction for the last two years
A. Gary Shilling & Company
click on the Insight tab
Oh, and he's predicted a credit crunch, stock market dump, credit ratings discrediting (as it were), emerging market dump, etc etc.
He's made, so far, an almost perfect call.
Fear in the City as shares plunge again - Telegraph
Fear in the City as shares plunge again - from the London Telegraph.
Unless there is a lot more financial stress my guess is the U.S. will drift into a mild recession. Strong growth in China and weaker, but still respectable, growth in most other countries will result in slower but still positive worldwide growth.
If this happens I would expect a very volatile next few months with small declines in high quality equities and larger declines in low quality securities. A "normal" but scary bear market.
Premium content | Economist.com
THE ECONOMIST 8/16/2007 EDITION
Banks in trouble
The game is up
Credit markets and the crisis of confidence in global finance
The depression in Japan did not brought the rest of the world down, did it?
We'll feed the rest of the world with carry trade, with our 1% interest rates...
Er, Japan is not the US. Not by a long shot.
The US is the consumer of last resort. Take a gander at the last page of the economist, the small table of exports. Who exports, and who imports?
The US is the 600 lb import gorilla.
FFDIC,
Thanks for the link.
On top of this, both Bear Stearns and Goldman Sachs have found that when funds bearing their name get into trouble the desire to preserve their reputations soon leads to a rescue. Sometimes risk is not as far away from the banks as it seems.
A hard lesson learned, and one that will slow (probably and hopefully not stop) the major IB's move into the next new thing. Probably not a bad outcome.
I still shake my head that BSC kicked in money.
CR - time for you to seek therapy.
And also switch the layout to a 2 day dwell. Some of today's posts have scrolled off the front page.
CR,
I sort of second FF. Put down the coffee and step away from the keyboard.
Actually, it's been a fun and extra-informative day here. Thanks.
Re: The US is the 600 lb import gorilla.
Exactly-- much of the rest of the world specializes in producing crap that only Americans are willing to borrow to buy.
I love reading this site and the comments. I was recently out of town on business and could not reach the comments on my Blackberry.
Is it my problem or a site problem?
FT.com / China / Finance & Markets - China Everbright in $2.6bn bail-out
Financial Times.com 8/17/2007
China Everbright Bank in $2.6bn bail-out
Maybe there is scum on your berry.
BOVESPA 2007 = NASDAQ 2000
?????
CR,
Drink more coffee. The good stuff.
DD
Disturbing insights from CA. In speaking to client's and prospects throughout the week a great many "investors" have 10-15 homes on I/O or neg-ams and are scrabling for financing that has disappeared. They want new financing but who lends on a money losing deal? This inventory will hit the market in a few months. Lots of SFR's in Los Angeles and Riverside especially.
The Great Loan Blog
FT.com / In depth - Sarkozy sees role for G7 in market woes
Financial Times.com 8/16/2007
Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, sees role for G7 in Market woes
I was wondering why the stock market came roaring back today, but now I know that traders irrational fears were finally set to rest when they realized that the subprime problem was contained to the international financial system.
"China Everbright Bank in $2.6bn bail-out"
Before I stopped getting the Economusty, they seemed to publish an article every few months about the sad state of the banking system in China - the largely state-run, state-directed banking system. But $2.6bn is chump change to the Chinese economy. It's about 2-3 days of the trade deficit with the USA.
- NY Times
The New York Times
Stronger Asia Seen as Better Able to Deflect ripples, or Big Waves, From U.S.
Waaaay off topic, but can't we get a little love for Elvis before the day is done?
YouTube -
Greenspan threw a party for real estate,
Mortgage bankers too and then they dropped their rates,
Wall Street saw a chance and tranched'em up,
S&P and Moody's called it AAA stuff!
No bid, everybody no bid,
All the players in the mortgage biz,
Were avoiding mark to market bids
NIKKEI 15,663.14 - 485.35
is any one else exhausted...?
This has been the most intense 55 days -- very dynamic
Wall Street did not figure out Main Street had a problem until it hit them between the eyes.
Consumers have been retrenching for about a year while Wall Street has pretended otherwise.
The pundits are now asking: "Are we there yet." i.e., Is this round of blood-letting over? This is simply the wrong question.
There nothing that says that aging boomers, realizing their pensions and house (equity) are not what they once thought or anticipated, decide to "go Japanese" -- forego consumption in favor of "forced" savings.
Such a tectonic (paradigm) shift by Main Street (consumers) probably matters far more than all of the toxic fall-out from Wall Street.
NIKKEI 15,663.14 - 485.35
inOrlando | 08.17.07 - 12:21 am |
hey, were'nt you saying never lower....EVER !
jeez, we may play this roller coaster for a second day...
I have to bet it will lead to a global slowdown. The consumers of China, India are simply not geared as yet to buying on tick ( though they are getting there), to reduce saving and replace the US consumer. Even the infrastructure to support consumption isn't there - I'm thinking shopping malls of the style and type and quantity that we have here. That would take several years to develop. Throw in the change in psychology that's required - I'd say a decade or so - and IMO there is no chance that the US consumer will be replaced anytime soon. The rational bet has to be on a global slowdown.
-K
Alot of folks expecting a bounce tomorrow. I wouldn't be so sure. Carry trade continues to unwind big time. Yen 112.66 to the dollar.
It was just the other night it was 116. One helluva move. Asia down again tonight. Dell cancels out HP.
CR,
as US 70 trillion household assets take a big hit ..and hedge fund redemptions continue...and emerging market spread (already widest today since 2005) keep widening...capital flows from emerging will come back to US propping USD (despite deficit!)
The outward flows will hit the emerging market as debt financing for them gets more expensive (just like the risky US homebuyer)
that 70 trill estimate can easily go down to 40 tril or so.
Dell cancels out HP.
Nah, everyone knew Dell was doing that.
- NY Times
The New York Times
At Treasury, the Secretary Waits It Out
Why the hate?
all OZ dollar speculators are fleeing.. OZ fed had to support its dollar!!
it is already down ~15%.
Justice is swift and painful.
Banker, no, the $64 Trillion dollar question is, where do the Govt get $64 Trillion dollars for those unfunded liabilities......which have to start getting funded next year as the early retirees (besides Tanta) start collecting their checks.
Everyone talks about the credit crunch and its impact on the economy. That $64 Trillion question is the 64 Trillion pound gorilla in the room. David Walker is the keeper and is saying he's hungry...but no one, sigh, seems to be listening.....
The_Scum: The comments link requires javascript (to update the number of comments?). Maybe your blackberry web browser doesn't support javascript? I don't think haloscan notices that you don't have javascript and replaces the comment link with just a basic html link (doesn't seem to work when I tested disabling javascript). You should fill out a support request for them to disable javascript comment links for blackberry user-agent (or anything they can detect as not having javascript). From a quick search it looks like javascript was added with Blackberry Enterprise Server v4.0.
related link:
How do I configure my BlackBerry Browser? - Knowledge Base
haloscan support forum:
HaloScan.com Forums
Can't believe I'm staying up past my bedtime to watch the NEKKEI.
But Yahoo's feed: Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
seems to be delayed compared to N's own website: Nikkei.com - Market Live
As long as the 0% six-month credit card balance transfer is available, I think J6P can keep trucking along. If that disappears, we're completely screwed. Pretty similar to companies rolling over CP, but at 0%.
Keep in mind as the months tick on and bank capital declines - the FDIC historically closes banks on either Thursday or Friday typically Friday (unless there is a run then it is almost immediate to stop the run). Once FDIC begins its Friday press releases of bank closings there may be an abrupt market swing depending on the bank's size, etc.
The over-extended consumer will be spending less, but how about the ones who have little debt and sufficient cash? I could buy stuff - in fact I need a new car and could pay cash for it- but after the recent financial turmoil, I've decided to be cautious and wait another 6-months. I'm three days into my austerity diet which will consist mostly of tortillas and beans. I haven't been to Whole Foods for a week. So the subprime mess is already reducing my expenditures and Honda or Toyota are going to have to lower their revenue projections.
I think the question is not "will there be a spillover" but "how much damage to the global economy has the credit bubble made". USA is not the only place that is full of bad debt.
Lest we forget, we've got a Spanish, UK, Irish, and many other housing bubbles to unwind. You really think those are going to stay propped up as the US implodes? I sure dont...
And last I checked, foreclosures are already pushing up rapidly in the UK, even though prices have barely started to flatten. Imagine the rest of the damage to global credit markets when these other bubbles deflate. We have a long long painful ride down ahead of us, sorry to say.
deja vu
- NY Times? pagewanted=1
The New York Times
Stronger Asia Seen as Better Able to Deflect ripples, or Big Waves, From U.S.
Well if Stronger Asia has a lot to do with that monster US trade deficit, then things might not work out so well.
It's worth considering that maybe Asian consumers simply don't share enough of the wealth created by business and government to consume the goods they produce.
Strong consumption requires political power and relative equality between labor and capital.
If US exports drop off in Asian countries and their laborers don't magically ascend to the status of "Super-Consumer" that took Americans years and years of excess borrowing and confidence to achieve, they could end up drowning in a nightmare of overcapacity and oversupply.
A hundred story building is only a good thing if you build it with the right materials.
Good news. NIKKEI's no longer at 8 month lows. It's at 13 month lows. 15,510.96 - 637.53
Any rumors on who bought 80m of CFC around 3:20 yesterday? That's 2/5 of the day's volume.
Symbol Lookup from Yahoo! Finance
Living in the town
One must have money even
To melt the snow down!
Kobayashi Issa
HAIKU The Poetry of Ze
Seems like the article is making the causal links that AC, me and others here have been trying to get through the thick skulls of some others recently, that the relative size of the US consumer market as a share of global GDP is pretty important, and kind of makes the decoupling argument silly on its face. It looks even sillier each day as the US consumer spending outlook fades.
And yeh, the Japanese dont seem to like the thought of the US consumer passing on their exports. Down only 4% so far tonight on the Nikkei.
Any rumors on who bought 80m of CFC around 3:20 yesterday? That's 2/5 of the day's volume.
Symbol Lookup from Yahoo! Finance c=
F. Frederson | 08.17.07 - 12:52 am | #
Starts with P ends with T and has 3 letters
Stuart,
Banker, no, the $64 Trillion dollar question is, where do the Govt get $64 Trillion dollars for those unfunded liabilities......which have to start getting funded next year as the early retirees (besides Tanta) start collecting their checks.
Shhh, don't raise that or you'll get accused of tainting FDR's legacy or robbing the poor or somesuch. Don't worry * throws magic pixie dust * it'll all go away...really.
YouTube
- Elvis Presley Jailhouse Rock 1957 colour
Elvis Presley
Jail House Rock in color from 1957
Any rumors on who bought 80m of CFC around 3:20 yesterday? That's 2/5 of the day's volume.-F. Frederson
i did
i shorted it to you
the Asian mentality is to save, save, save after working 60h work weeks. ac's point about inequality btwn those controlling the business interests and the laborers is a good one. Chinese laborers get paid squat and will never equal the Joe average beer belly.
i shorted it to you-someguywhoknows
ah yes, a man of my own ilk
Any rumors on who bought 80m of CFC around 3:20 yesterday? That's 2/5 of the day's volume.
Mozilo?
OMG, I kilz me.
Asia mostly Red
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
Jeebuz H Christmas,
What's Japanese for the PPT, cuz they are missing the Batsignal. Anybody got their 800 number?
Eli posted this on the previous thread, and nobody bit. I'd like an answer to his exact questions as well... He said,
"Is it possible to direct all the nerdiness here towards understanding what could happen to the currencies of the world? You can fudge GDP numbers or unemployment numbers or inflation numbers... But you can't fudge the amount of $ people have to pay for Yen."
"Do these currency markets matter to the US? Can the central banks hold everything together?"
"I was reading through the 2005 postings on CR, and I really enjoy the postings on the U.S. debt.. I guess it can get boring since people have been blathering interminably about how unsustainable the national debt is... But, that's the real story (to me)."
"We are at a moment where people may begin to see that.. Even though the number on the screen says there's $1,000 in a given system... When they start trying to get some of that money out... They may find that it's only really $10."
"If you stack loads of derivatives (that depend on a set volatility) on top of the fractional reserve banking system, you have a huge potential problem."
"We're operating as if there's a lot more money in the system than there really is."
"Anyhoo, this is just my ramble... I know that there's a 99% chance that "everything will be fine".. It's just my wont to focus on this drastic risk no matter how improbable it is for it to ever become a material concern."
Does anyone even understand what I'm blathering about?"
Okay... me again...
How about my gold? What does the future hold for that? I'm almost completely out of that scrip crap.
Thanks,
Dave S.
Asia mostly Red
vader
Are we reasserting the communism domino theory again ? in 2007?
-K
China faces a triple-whammy of potential trade protectionism from the US government, a damaged reputation due to recent product quality issues, and a big US consumer spending pullback. Oh yeah, and they'll be hit by forced selling by hedge fund liquidations as well.
I don't see how they escape this without some serious hurt.
CR, I think it wil lead to a global slowdown, but I hold out hope that we are not talking depression, here is my half baked reasoning:
- definitely a hit from declinging MEW, but MEW is at 4% of DPI now, down from 8%, that's DPI not total income.
- definitely a hit to GDP of 1% or maybe more from housing slowdown
- some small benefit from perhaps cheaper oil and other commodities, assuming no dollar meltdown.
How horrible is the net effect of those things really?
The whole unwind is of course the problem, maybe there is some more efficient way to clean up the banking mess. Something about clearing out all the bankrupt middle men/hedge funds who are shaving points off the payments between the mortgage payer and the MBS/CDO holder. Empty out their offices and just leave a few computers there forwarding the cash while taking no skim LOL. You would think that each time a middleman goes BK, the cash payment has one less step to make to get to the bond holder.
The social security liabilities are easy to take care of, simply reduce benefits. Now there's a ponzi scheme -in the most real sense of the word!!
Medicare will cost much more than social security, that is the scary one.
YouTube
- Broadcast Yourself.
Janis Joplin - Ball And Chain (live in Germany 1969)
Germans may want to listen in.
Good night from the great state of Texas.
ikkei down 726.66 right now... ouch.
Remind me to ask for facts next time...
80 million times $19 is $1.52 billion, btw. I'm sure the Orange Man is rich, but that seems a bit much to risk. Especially since there isn't a subtilely-manipulated quarterly report due out for a while.
Nikkei 225 15,336.51 -811.98 14:40
8/17 - 14:42
15,300.58 - 847.91
Nikkei 225 15,280.98 -867.51 14:54
Shut her down, Clancy, shes pumping mud!
Dave S.-
Inflation = dollar bad, gold good
Deflation = dollar good, gold bad
Disclosure: recovering goldbug, haven't had any bullion for 60 days.
Nikkei 225 8/17 - *close
15,273.68 - 874.81
I guess they didn't want to be in the market over the weekend.
Nikkei 225 8/17 - *close
15,273.68 - 874.81
Ministry of Truth | 08.17.07 - 2:06 am | #
Off 5%? Ah! I spot a flesh wound.
re: Nikkei down 874.
Freaking Hell - This is starting to get into 1929 territory - I'm glad I looked at the size of the up and downs of the DOW during that time - and we haven't even seen any data regarding the global slowdown. Truly, equity markets are a forward looking discounting mechanism; except when they are backward looking; or coincident; or just nuts.
-K
CFC humor...
This video clip has within it a series of clips of Mozilo over the years. It shows how the Tan Man has gotten darker!
Video - CNBC.com
The rest of the video is not humorous, unless you are short CFC. Now where's my popcorn?
Asia doesn't disconnect.
While financial leverage is much lower than in the past, operating leverage has never been higher.
Look for y-o-y sales of California homes to be down 80% or so for the months of August and September. As 70% or so of all California homes would be financed via Jumbo's, and since that window along with Alt-A and Subprime being closed tells me that almost nothing sells this month or next. That'll tank export related cos. in Asia.
Run on the bank @ Countrywide
Bakersfield Bubble
BARFBAGS, git yer BARFBAGS
Arbogast Industries' finest extra-large BARFBAGS. With the Arbogast Industries explanation of the yen carry trade right on the outside. Often imitated, never duplicated, yours for only $1.49 apiece, buy ten and pay only $9.99, buy a gross, what we call a Countrywide, and we'll throw in a tinfoil hat!
^STI\tStraits Times\t2,974.07 2:49AM ET\tDown 178.09 Down 5.65%
Bigger relative sell-off in Singapore, though I think their trading day has a few hours to go.
Is this the answer and why the rally:
Fed steps in to quell credit fears - Telegraph
or will they force the Fed to lower ?
"As goes housing - so goes the economy.
As goes the US - so goes the world.
Note to self - this time ain't no frigging different."
FYI, EU has now a lot bigger combined GDP and for example, the biggest trading partner of Germany is FRANCE, not US. Exports to US usually are less than 10 percent of total in most EU countries. US is nowhere as crucial to Europeans than during 50-80's.
Asians really are stupid idiots. Instead of investing money to support their domestic markets, they borrowed it all to flat-out broke Americans. They will never get their money back and now their economies have all kinds of bad malinvestments.
mommy hold me.
Yesterday really was the water retreating from the shore I guess. . .
I have asked many people from other countries, one notable difference almost every one except American saves.
The prediction that China's export will suffer might be wrong, because cheap products from China are mainly purchased by relatively poor people in US ( Walmart). The dwindling population of middle class is a good blessing the cheap imports. When people want pinch pennies, they buy cheap stuff. Where are the cheap stuff come from? From places where labors are cheap. Seems common sense to me.
Europe mostly red
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
Asia took bad hit
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
Not going to be pretty.
I have never understood the NZD-YEN carry trade: How can one expect to get 7% a year with more and more YEN coming in and not think about the day these funds will move back to Japan.
If someone would show me that in Japan they started to consume hugh amount of NZ dairy and in NZ they stopped buying Toyota I would say: OK there is a way for the other side of the carry trade to work - but that is not the case:
Japan does not need NZD and NZ does need YEN so when the carry trade money wants to come back home there is only one option:
YEN UP and NZD down:
Australian, New Zealand Dollars Slump as Investors Reduce Carry - Bloomberg.com
13% already.
Go chase yield.....
and I recall someone here telling this is how Soros made his money: On getting higher yield. I don't know if true but this whole getting higher yield in NZD is a perfect ponzy scheme that only works as long as the NZ central bank willing to give money away and more and more jananese invetor going into NZD.
http://www2.standardandpoors.com/portal/site/sp/en/us/page.article/2,1,1,3,1148446770905.html
"Fifty Ratings On 12 Cash Flow, Hybrid CDOs Lowered; 19 Ratings On Six Deals Affirmed"
http://www2.standardandpoors.com/portal/site/sp/en/us/page.article/2,1,1,3,1148446766030.html
Countrywide Financial Corp. Rating Lowered To 'A-/A-2', On CreditWatch Negative
"The ratings will remain on CreditWatch Negative as Countrywide
transitions its mortgage business to one of lower volume and continues moving CHL's operations to the bank. It is transitioning to a dramatically different business model, as the bank will now be the majority source of funding, assets, and earnings for Countrywide. Should the liquidity challenges or the earnings impact from this transition and from credit costs that rise higher than we now expect accelerate, then ratings could be lowered one or two notches."
Japan - Worst day in seven years. Nikkei down ~18% in the last 1 month. Will Japan be the first to enter recession /( or D )?
I'm guessing carry trade profits made a considerable part of Japanese consumer spending. Add to that higher Yen which may hit Industrial production.
"I'm three days into my austerity diet which will consist mostly of tortillas and beans."
Keep a window open.
We have plunged into an liquidity crisis that was inevitable. Cash is now king, and the closer your assets are to cash (ie. the more liquid you are) the safer you are from harm.
Unfortunately, there isn't nearly enough cash to go around for all the credit that has been created.
So, the cash-rich will be able to snatch up plenty of bargain basement assets. But only for a while. The US (and other) governments will soon be forced to increase the amount of real cash to match the rapidly-shrinking amount of phoney cash (ie. extended credit). And the only way to do that is to hyperinflate.
I've been predicting for the last two years that everyone will be whipsawed by this process: first a deflationary collapse the makes cash desperately scarce, and then the printing presses roar into action and the cash becomes as worthless as Weimar marks. In short, neither cash nor gold alone will protect anyone. People need both. Cash to survive the first month or two, then gold to survive the coming hyperinflation.
(And then probably, as a few here have observed, guns.)
BTW, it seems not unlikely that before long there will be real runs on banks and other accounts, and so they will be frozen. It may save people a lot of pain they have a few thousand in cash at home.
During a production call today one of our branches reported a "run" on the local Countrywide Bank. Lines at the bank - parking lot overflowing into the street and neighboring busnesses. At first I thought it was typical misinformation until they said it was in Florida...
Those experienced people know when to pull their money and run. Posession is 9/10 of the law. FSLIC - SMSLIC.
"How long did you think we could sustain this bullshit? Agents inflating prices...buyers BUYING with no money invested...borrowers paying 1%...(seriously wow, 1% interest!)...the chop shop shadey brokers...the idiot loan officers who did not even know fundamental elements of finance, economics, and real estate...the appraisers who would push values based on remodeled grass and flowers...the banks giving 4+ points in rebate (wow)...the investors who bought them and sold them (wow again). "
Mortgage Grapevine: Countrywide -- Probably GONE when we wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"We have plunged into an liquidity crisis that was inevitable. Cash is now king, and the closer your assets are to cash (ie. the more liquid you are) the safer you are from harm".
What cash? We Americans don't have any!
No savings - Just Credit Cards.
Lets keep bowing down to our Chinese masters or we're goosed.
Looks like the Fed did repo ABCP yesterday. In the (admittedly ineffective) words of presidential candidate Bob Dole:
"Where is the outrage?"
Excerpt for comment above (London Telegraph):
Banking sources said the Fed quietly softened its rules yesterday to let banks use ABCP loans as collateral, a move that effectively offers a government floor - until it starts trading again.
The Fed move, and a deal by Canadian banks to unfreeze Toronto's credit markets, helped calm the panic after the worst one-day fall on global bourses since the dotcom bust.
I also find it interesting that many feel that third world nations are going to suddenly become great consumers and pull the irons of debt ridden American over- spenders out of the fire.
I think that might be a huge miscalculation. Many of these countries have predicated their economies for exporting cheap goods- and not necessarily rising the living standards of their own population. I hardly think the majority of Asians are going to rack up debt and become 'like Americans'.
For the most part most of them are still very poor, and save most of their incomes. Even in rich Japan the savings rate is very high. This so called 'global economic boom' may turn out to be a paper tiger.
I am waiting for the market pundits to finally come to the realization that we are going into a prolonged period of low/subpar returns, this just when the boomer population is entering retirement.
The rates on "quality" assets will stay below the historical average for far longer then most wish to believe.
The focus will begin to shift from share buybacks to increased dividends. The quest to garner yield in both equity and fixed income markets will surprise many.
If the US should I enter recession, which is probable, the recession, at this point is likely to be mild, followed by an extended period of subpar growth. The calls for worse are unfounded, barring a significant, unforeseen economic shock.
The sooner we get through this hedge fund, leverage induced unwind, the better, and once again correlation will mean something.
Tough period ahead, but, far from what some morons are suggesting.
The run on CFC bank is real and not just in Florida:
A rush to pull out cash -- latimes.com
Risk C:
Amazing. This is exactly what I was thinking. I have thought long and hard about the "buying opportunity" ahead.
On one hand I thought about the smart money who existed in Sep 1929 and got back into the market only at the end of Nov 29 - they still lost a lot (70%-80%).
On the other hand I started thinking that maybe 6-8 mopnth from now I should buy stocks like AT&T, Verizon, BAC - things I never planned to hold.
From the American Bankruptcy Institute (their motto is kind of disheartening:
The Essential Resource for Todays Busy Insolvency Professional!):
The total number of U.S. bankruptcies filed during the first six months of 2007 increased 48.23 percent over the same period in 2006 in all bankruptcy court districts, according to data released today by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. Total filings reached 404,090 during the first half of the calendar year of 2007 (January 1-June 30), compared to 272,604 cases filed over the same period in 2006.
Filings by individuals or households with consumer debt increased 48.34 percent to 391,105 for the six-month period ending June 30, 2007, from the 2006 first-half total of 263,660.
See: American Bankruptcy Institute | Bankruptcy Filings in First Half of 2007 Up 48 Percent from a Year Ago
And also:
Federal Judiciary News Release
risk capital "If the US should I enter recession, which is probable, the recession, at this point is likely to be mild, followed by an extended period of subpar growth. The calls for worse are unfounded, barring a significant, unforeseen economic shock".
Probable? When the economy is 70% housing related, no manufacturing industry and David Walker running around like a lunatic and screaming about unfounded liabilities we have reason to be VERY fearful.
It is a FACT that Cantarell crashing and most likely will have ran out in less than 4-7 years.
Where will us Americans get our oil from then? The Arabs will squeeze us dry and our Chinese masters will need all the oil for themselves.
High oil prices are a certainty.
Recession - Extended depression more likely!!!
Dear Yal
That is some strange behavior from that LA Times article on CountryWide Bank...
"It's got my wife totally freaked out," he said. "I just don't want to deal with it. I don't care about losing 90 days' interest, I don't care if it's FDIC-insured -- I just want it out."
It is FDIC-insured...
Some "Bankerdome" type thinking going on out there.
(Of course, with all due respect to you...Banker, I know you are not really stocking up on tuna.)
Regards,
Poor American-
grab a shovel, head out to the backyard, and dig a big hole. Bring all your canned goods and plenty of water. The artillary should be kept close at hand and the Confederate flag should fly above your hole.
Leave all of the dirt from the digging in a huge pile next to your hole so hopefully one of your sane neighbors can bury your sorry ass.
Europe not looking too good this morning...hell...even Oslo is in the red:
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
I'd like to see peoples' thoughts on the balance/efficacy of cb provisions of liquidity vs. massive deleveraging by hedge funds. What is the total equity (say as of June) of hedge funds est.? What was the leveraged total assets? Its apparent with the unwinding of the carry trade and the covering of positions in short, long, and emerging markets that they are in fact de-leveraging, yes? But of course there is still the insolvency of the MBS/CDO's pile of garbage. Question: is the deleveraging a deflationary force that can be effectively offset by fed injections or rate cuts?
Also, question: does the imbalance in the of the housing prolems in the US economy - epicenters California and Florida also make a cb reliquification ineffective in preventing a real economy economic downturn?
risk capital
"Leave all of the dirt from the digging in a huge pile next to your hole so hopefully one of your sane neighbors can bury your sorry ass".
Don't take it personally. I know it's gonna hurt, but the truth normally does.
We've f**cked up our economy. US$ going up - It won't be long before it's on its way down.
Peter Schiff is right.
This question is a million miles OT, so pardon me, but I would appreciate some guidance from the many geniuses on this board.
I kept hearing that yesterday's Dow rally was a "classic short squeeze." But that doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like more "short covering," that is, shorters had to buy stocks to cash in their positions (mostly locking in profits, I presume).
Am I correct, or am just getting caught up in sloppy terminology by CNBC talking heads? Are a short "squeeze" and "covering" the same thing?
-- Judge Smales
"You'll get nothing and like it"
OT:Russia, China start joint wargames
But interesting to say the least....
Business & Financial News, Breaking US & International News | Reuters.com
Hey risk capital!
Peter Schiff tells it how it is.
Peter Schiff
The Call
Fri 8/17/2007
11:00:00 AM EDT
Stock Market News, Business News, Financial, Earnings, World Market News and Information - CNBC.com
Watch it. You might learn something instead of pontificating on here!
JudgeSmales is a stock or stocks is/are heavily shorted, any small move up creates a frenzy of short covering that feeds on itself and drives the price of the stock or stocks up.
That is a short squeeze Judge
judge: the action yesterday in CFC had everyone piling in on the short side, presumably on top of short positions already in place. When it hit 15 even a gong went off, and the covering started. We can guess it was established shorts (hedgies?) taking profits, but then everyone else started covering to protect their profits.
The_Scum:
Had same problem, no comments, bummer.
to cure
goto:
Browser Options,Browser Configuration
enable Support JavaScript
Total US Bank reserves are about 41 billion, which is, I think, about a half percent of total deposits. The other trillions have been loaned out, and if depositors start runs on other banks, as they are on Countrywide's, banks will be shut down by executive order. FDR did it, and other nations faced with a failure of fractonal reserve banking, have done it, too. Because, 41 billion divided by the US population would provide only about $130. per person, and you can bet it won't be divided up equally.
Sure, it's a fat-tail event. But it looks increasingly possible. FDIC is a sham. Reimbursement would take years, and be paid in inflated $$$.
And it's not entirely true that "no Americans have cash, only CC's." I do. My CC's, like my house and cars, are paid off, and I did it on blue-collar wages. I must be a "moron," eh, Risk Capital?
So here's advice from this moron. Whether in debt up to your eyeballs or not, stash greenbacks at home. You can always put cash back in the bank if the Pollyanna's turn out to be correct. But if our banks shut their doors for a few months, your family will starve.
OT- Fed just cut discount window 50 bps
Fed cuts the discount rate 50bps to 5.75%
Discount rate cut 50bp.....not sure when this happened.
Bit confused by the discount window. Cramer demanded that it be opened. I thought it was always open but he would know surely? I thought the idea of the higher rate was to discourage its use.
Worried - You are correct twice. The discount window is always open and, yes, Cramer did demand that it be opened.
Now. What can you conclude from that?
Burnside
My mother always said to me that "i knew the price of everything and the value of nothing!"
I lost a shit load of money so far out of this:-( I am consoled greatly by the fact that my mother did in fact know best:-) I was wrong and by seeing her wisdom i can learn to be a bit less worried and a little more right.
Even Cramer is probably making money.
Is the collateral for borrowing though the Discount Window the same as Repos?
Judge, a squeeze denotes herd panic in covering.
Worried - I didn't at all mean to trivialize your situation, so my apologies.
I have no doubt Cramer makes money, in the same sense that Jerry Springer makes money. Both of them are very smart in a particular way. But there are more reliable sources of information, evidently, than Mr. C., as you no doubt realize.
So what's the calamity, if this is what Poole said was needed for an emergency cut?
Any signs that US growth is collapsing in August, or effects on the real economy anywhere?
Back to the steaks, 100 year-old scotch and cigars today, after the close, for all of Cramer's buddies who were calling him last week crying into the phone.
Burnside
I am ok.....just got less.
Maybe Cramer was actually right? If using the window is a sign a bank has problems then effectively it is not so open unless the rate gap narrows?
So, I guess the "Bernanke Put" is now in place? Discount window rate lowered, government buying up mortgage crud, etc.
Back to wheeling and dealing, lying and cheating, stuffing retirement accounts with crud, devaluing the dollar, and reducing the standard of living of Americans so the rich can afford a second weekend yacht.
Oh, and Countrywide was just UPGRADED. Please ignore the run on the banks - everything is fine!
Right... back to buying gold!
Rate cut seems to be having an effect. Europe up 2-3%.
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
And dollar is down.
EURUSD=X: Basic Chart for EUR/USD - Yahoo! Finance
Should I laugh or cry?
Oh, it is effective. Keep the punch bowl spiked, housing unaffordable, salaries diminishing in the shadow of hyperinflation, and Wall Street rolling in the debt/money. Yep, really effective - for them.
Wait until gas hits $5 a gallon or some insanity in a couple of years and watch the Fed and the rest ponder how this could be? After all, as the patient was sobering up, they kept giving him more alcohol to maintain the present condition, and then the patient dies of alcohol poisoning. I just don't understand... such a conondrum...
Coffee, the elixer of life and insightful commentary!