BEA: Q2 Mortgage Debt Increase

CR: Would an alternative explanation have something to do with ARM resets increasing payments?

Everyone - please donate if you have the means to the ML-implode legal costs. To date they've only gotten a fraction of what they need. The implications are terrible for the blogosphere we have come to depend on as a source of truth outside the corrupt mainstream media.

It's been turned into Ferraris and mansions in the Hamptons. It can't be paid back. The system is going to vapor lock

Pbyrne

The ability of Americans to; buy crap, borrow, eat and not read books astonishes me.
If you bet with the American consumer, you might be wrong twice in your life.

When a home sells by a boomer intending to cash out, one would have to imagine in many cases they owe considerably less than the home is worth and the new owner will finance a greater portion. Also, there were probably at least ~130K new homes sold that need mortgages.

Could this help explain the numbers and still have MEW declining?

Agreed that it may have more to do with rests than MEW

Newbie question: what is BEA?

Calculated Risk

Can I be honest with you? I don't trust anything that comes out of the mouth anyone who speaks for the Federal Government. I have witnessed to much to believe in fairy tales.

BEA = Bureau of Economic Analysis, part of the Department of Commerce --- BEA data

Everyone - please donate if you have the means to the ML-implode legal costs. To date they've only gotten a fraction of what they need. The implications are terrible for the blogosphere we have come to depend on as a source of truth outside the corrupt mainstream media.
itsallgreektome | 07.27.07 - 7:38 pm | #

Ummmmm....what's ML-implode legal costs?

bofiz, I don't think so. We won't know until September, but I think borrowing was still healthy in Q2.

Best Wishes.

y.s., I have thought for the past couple of years if I had a list of what needs correction with this gov't, the first thing would be a reliable, honest, accurate set of economic statistics. Across all activities.

ys wayne- "I don't trust anything that comes out of the mouth anyone who speaks for the Federal Government. I have witnessed to much to believe in fairy tales."

ys wayne, like dotcommunist, is my kind of guy.

Hazard- "I have thought for the past couple of years if I had a list of what needs correction with this gov't, the first thing [emphasis supplied- mp] would be a reliable, honest, accurate set of economic statistics. Across all activities."

No offense, Hazard, but you have led a sheltered life.

I clicked through a countrywide home loan ad on ML-implode's site. Does that count as a donation?

Dear CR,

Dumb request: Can you connect the dots just one more step for me: Is this current homeowners taking on additional debt or new homeowners? Anyway to tell?

Best regards,

Indices are up in after hours trading. Thoughts, anyone?

Kett82,
That makes 2 of us dummies.

Kett82, more data will be available soon to answer that question (the BEA will release their source data and assumptions for the Q2 advance estimates). But the best data is from the Fed Flow of Funds (and we have to wait until September).

If MEW really increased in Q2 (I think it did) this is actually much worse news for the economy later this year.

I'm pretty sure MEW will decline sharply as the year progresses.

Best Wishes.

It seems hard to square with the tightening of credit that MEW would increase. Most people that play the MEW game need the money and those are the people that are the least likely to get it these days.

When a HELOC is orginated and no funds have been drawn, how does this show up in the reports.

I thought G2 consumer spending was only 1.3%? So are you saying that if did not have this boast in MEW the spending would have been much less?
Either way consumer spending is trending down.

Indices are up in after hours trading. Thoughts, anyone?
tj & the bear | 07.27.07 - 9:29 pm

Dead cat bounce is overdue.

Indices may be up on after hours trading, but Asian markets seems to be down 2-3%...

The real story this week is the crashing credit markets, not housing or stocks (though they're the primary suspects in the matter). This will change everything if it doesn't stop.

High-yield corporate debt is a good example:

Junk Bond Crash

Also, from bloomberg.com, U.S. AFTER HOURS MOST ACTIVE BY VOLUME -- the listed stocks/indices are all down...

Weekend transition material:

Mr. Quincy Magoo is a cartoon character created by John Hubley in 1949...Voiced by Jim Backus (also famed in popular culture for his role as Thurston Howell III in the 1960s sitcom Gilligan's Island), Quincy Magoo is a wealthy, short-statured retiree who gets into a series of sticky situations as a result of his nearsightedness, compounded by his stubborn refusal to admit the problem. Affected people (or animals) consequently tend to think that he is a lunatic, rather than just being near-sighted.

Speaking with reporters after meeting with his economic team, Mr. Bush urged the American people to "take a good look at this economy of ours. Job growth has been strong, and that is what you would expect when our economy is strong and resilient and flexible. People [are] working, [the] unemployment rate is down, wages are increasing," he said. The president credited America's free enterprise system...

Indices are up in after hours trading. Thoughts, anyone?

Er... indicies go up and down. That's just what they do.

Stocks staged huge rallies during the NASDAQ crash and in the wake of the initial 1929 stock market crash when the economy was already in a serious recession. These rallies almost brought the markets to new highs, even when crisis was evident.

I don't know if we're in a crisis or not, but if we were it would be really, really weird to not see indicies go up a lot.

And down a lot too.

Markets do their own thing as much as they can. It's just occasionally, but inevitably, that they're forced to confront reality.

Reality always wins in the end. But there's a lot of time to play around and do wierd things in the interim.

Don't be fooled.

Ahhhh... check this out. This is important. This Randall Forsyth guy from Barron's really knows what's going on, and gets to the core of what matters in this whole mess:

Cunningham of State Street likens Thursday's rout to the Long Term Capital Management crisis of 1998, when the collapse of that hedge fund caused the capital markets to seize up, even while the economy was in relatively good shape. At the behest of the Federal Reserve, the major banks and brokers arranged a bailout of LTCM. The Fed helped out by cutting its short-term interest rate target, even as growth was humming along.

The LTCM incident helped burnish the legend of the so-called Greenspan Put, the perceived insurance policy provided by the former Fed chairman to the markets when things got rough. After the crash of October 1987, the Maestro flooded the financial system with liquidity. And after the Tech Bubble burst, he did the same, slashing the overnight federal-funds rate all the way to 1% through 2003 into mid-2004, by which time the bull market and recovery were well along.

That's had two consequences: The cheap money inflated the housing bubble, which is now deflating with noxious effects. And it increases moral hazard -- the tendency of market participants to take on risk with impunity with the knowledge that they won't suffer the consequences if there's a bust. The expected Fed easing in reaction to any market setback is their Get Out of Jail Free card.

We keep trying to take the easy way out. And that just makes things worse and worse and worse.

Will Bernanke Bail Out This Credit Meltdown?

Fears are already emerging about the sub-prime market in Australia, with the principal solicitor for the ACT Consumer Law Centre, Amy Kilpatrick, saying "I am now more of a house repossession service than I am a general credit legal service."

Ms Kilpatrick said that about 70 per cent of the cases the centre sees involve non-banks, which are not regulated by the Reserve Bank of Australia or the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority.

"We are starting to see it (a crash). The trouble is, that it's being masked because the Reserve Bank doesn't know what's going on with the sub-prime lenders."

US mortgage debris has not fully hit Australia | The Australian

please donate if you have the means to the ML-implode legal costs

why, when the proprietor has enough money to throw at Casey Serin?

As for the ~$200B/qtr rise in mortgage debt . . . TMK this is new, hot-off-the-press money that is flooding into the money supply, right? IOW, how much of it is secured with hard cash from the MBS guys or lenders' cash reserve vs. how much of it is plain inflation of M1?

Because it seems to me that this mortgage money pipe into the economy is a bigger economic feeder than the ~$400B/yr federal deficit. . .

Also, I left this out from the above Forsyth article (highlights are mine).

This episode marks Ben Bernanke's first test as Fed chairman. "Never mind foreign oil, the U.S. economy is addicted to easy credit, and an easing by the Fed in the current situation will only maintain this addiction, but it still may be necessary in the short term," asserts Cunningham. "The real test would be how quickly it was reversed, which was likely the mistake Greenspan made following LTCM," he concludes.

Or Bernanke could show he's no Gentle Ben and apply some tough love to the adolescents in the markets who don't know any limits.

I couldn't agree more.

please donate if you have the means to >>the ML-implode legal costs

why, when the proprietor has enough >>money to throw at Casey Serin?

Yup, what Troy said..

Anybody doing biz with Casey Serin or using that miserable story of his encased in the infamous url - raises my hackles. I'd need a lot of clarification before I'd consider a donation.

-K

Have you guys/gals seen this about Sowood yet A $3 Billion Hedge Fund Is Said to Be Down 10% - NY Times

Sorry if it is a repost...

A contrarian view to MEW dropping with house price drop.....

What if the reason for MEW rising has not been because of the rise of home prices and easy lending, but has been due to to the lack of personal savings. In other words, the American consumer wants to spend. He/she can either spend from their paycheck or their savings. Since the savings rate is negative, they have no paycheck money left. That leaves stocks, bonds and home equity to spend. Most people have more home equity than liquid assets. If one looks at the amount of home equity, it is huge! So MEW may not necessarily go down just because house prices go down - the home equity that people have will still be huge. Instead MEW will go down once personal savings goes positive again . . . .

Personally I do think it will go down a little with house prices dropping, but I don't think it will go down to the late 90s level. Instead it will still remain relatively high for the above reason.

The thing about MEW is that all those previous loans are now in the stage where they have to be PAID BACK. Even if MEW stays the same, purchasing power is lower as the debt burden has increased...

Hidden U.S. subprime losses may mirror Japan bank crisis

I recall that Japanese banks did "mark to model/wishing price" and hung onto their NPL (non-performing loans) far too long -- i.e., they were left holding the bag (some hid their bags in their overseas subsidiaries and eventually got caught).

Horizon ABS funds sunk by subprime:

Subprime’s Other Victims: The Yacht-Owners

You’ve gotta feel for him. John Devaney, United Capital’s chief executive and a one-time master of the mortgage market who has been taking it on the chin lately, has put his yacht up for sale — for $23.5 million. According to TheStreet.com, he is selling his 142-foot Trinity yacht, dubbed Positive Carry, and his $16.5 million second-home, named Sardy House and the home of the nation’s largest living Christmas tree.

[...] But thanks to a wrong-way bet on the subprime mortgage market, his funds have gone underwater.

"Indices are up in after hours trading. Thoughts, anyone?"

Sell any rally if you are an investor and not a speculator. This is going to be fun. I love this game.

"When a home sells by a boomer intending to cash out, one would have to imagine in many cases they owe considerably less than the home is worth"

If you want to know what they are worth go to an auction, I always find the term "worth" as being in the eye of the beholder. Kind of like a bunch of stocks yesterday.

Fred said: "...That leaves stocks, bonds and home equity to spend. Most people have more home equity than liquid assets. If one looks at the amount of home equity, it is huge!..."

Tell me about it. It's a little embarrassing, actually. I'm not even in an area prone to "bubbles" and my home equity has expanded far out of scale to my typical spending habits. It's pretty amazing.

Yet I have no reason to sell. Even if I had an unsolicited offer to buy my home at a 10% premium over comparables, I wouldn't sell because my monthly mortgage payment is actually lower than what rent would be for a similar house.

The power of long-term buy-and-hold, I guess.Smile

Sebastian
(owner of the only home in America that's appreciating in value)

Even if I had an unsolicited offer to buy my home at a 10% premium over comparables, I wouldn't sell because my monthly mortgage payment is actually lower than what rent would be for a similar house.

The power of long-term buy-and-hold, I guess.Smile

That and buying at the right part of the curve... think about all those Cali people who bought when homes were in the $250K range and are now in the $500K-$1MM... If they didn't drink the HELOC Hemlock or refied into cash out AR or IO nonsense... they are sitting pretty even after a 30% reversal should one happen... They have payments they could afford in a house worth a lot more than they ever dreamed even after a price reversal.

The question is how many of the other kind does it take to wreck an economy and are there that many out there - that I don't know. No one does...

So, am I the only one that gets the haloscan dates like 7/29/07 in the comment above?

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