Now, the borrowers can charge their mortgage on AE card. This is a hugh trap. If you can't make the payment you walk and foreclose the house. But once the money charged to the card then the only way to get out is BK. The BK law was changed by credit card companies(thanks to the chimp and cons). They can change the rates to 40% at their wish. If you file the BK, they still can dig into your 401k, life saving and other properties. Basically, there is no way to walk away from BK.
NAR is also predicting a nice rebound starting in 2008. It would be nice if they could publish something on their rationale for the turnaround.
I guess that government officials can't acknowledge that a large segment of the economy has weak prospects. It's easy to just say that the forecast is unclear (or that it's bound to get better next year).
"...we've probably had much of the decline that we're expecting to have."
Edward Lazear, Chairman of the White House's Council of Economic Advisers, 2006
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899 (attributed)
FREDERICK, Md., June 6 (Reuters) - U.S. banks are well positioned to absorb any losses from the rise in delinquencies and foreclosures in U.S. mortgage markets, Richmond Federal Reserve President Jeffrey Lacker said on Wednesday.
Funny, I thought it was just us chicken littles that were concerned about the banks' exposure (and subprime is just the beginning). Now why would a respected Fed bank pres go around with reassurances for something so extreme?
These Fed clowns are funny. Every extreme event that they say is just fine must be collapsing much worse than even bears suspect.
"In February the NAR forecast sales would fall to 6.44 million. In April they revised their forecast to 6.34 million (a decline of 2.2% from 2006). Their new forecast is a decline of 4.6%. Still too high, but I suppose if they revise their forecast down 2% every couple of months, they might be close by the end of the year!"
If you have to forecast, forecast often! When do you think the 08 numbers start coming down?
I heard today, and maybe Tanta could verify, that Fannie Mae has begun to charge 1%, but, has continued to buy zero down originations, these costs are then passed on the the borrower in various forms.
As far as hedge funds and a possible liquidity event, I expect to see HY spreads move significantly, I expect if allowed under the investment guidlines to see managers move into the bank debt space for increased coverage in the case of default, I would also expect to see any ownership of covenant lite/toggle type loans to be sold in anticipation of a liquidity driven event.
Contrary to Yal's claim that I have changed my view, nothing has changed.
Recession probability 70%, a forced repricing of risk assets, an eventual flight to quality in fixed income markets potentially driving yields ultimately down to 3% on the 10yr, my prediction for recession beginning Q3 07, if we get a blip up in Q4, Q1 08.
The risk of a credit driven event is rising daily, my opinion is the HY market participants are concerned, as highlighted by Fitch, they should certainly be concerned due to the amount of leverage in the system.
with the potential for assets to be overstated on company balance sheets, I would expect that recovery assumptions, even on bank debt backed by corporate assets, would optimistically only yield 80% in most cases.
Nearly every LBO has them now - which accounts for the rapid rise of tech buyouts. Apparently one IB (don't know which) is trying to push the idea of toggle bank loans. ?!
Don't forget when you hear more "this is the bottom" calls out of the trade groups and certain policymakers, these are the same guys who denied a bubble in the first place, then after the bubble burst, have repeatedly called "the bottom."
For nostalgia's sake, why not peruse this web page, where you can read all about the NAR's "Now is a great time to buy OR sell a home" campaign:
You know, the one that highlights how inventory is on the decline (it has since hit the highest level in U.S. history). And I especially like this gem: "The national median home price will rise 1.6% in 2006 and prices are expected to rise again in the first quarter of 2007"
I have no problem with blown forecasts -- we all mess up all the time. What I can't stomach is the repetition of the continual "That's it! The worst is over!" mantra month in and month out ... when it has proven wrong, month in and month out.
Well, I suppose if one lies repeatedly before a grand jury dishonesty does come into play. And then one should be worrying about someone like Pat Fitzgerald. Hmmm?
"In February the NAR forecast sales would fall to 6.44 million. In April they revised their forecast to 6.34 million (a decline of 2.2% from 2006). Their new forecast is a decline of 4.6%. Still too high, but I suppose if they revise their forecast down 2% every couple of months, they might be close by the end of the year!"
Triple sell sounds like "double secret probation" to me.
D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Nah. Recession probability 100%. The only way it won't happen is if the world ends beforehand.
Now, a full-on depression may be avoidable, but given the market's irrationality -and- politician's penchant to do exactly the wrong thing I fully expect we'll have one of those, too.
You know, I know it's wrong, but after 7 years of it, I just expect anyone associated with this administration to lie, so I don't hold them to the same standards as, say, the economists who work for Wells Fargo. When those guys blow it, I think it's noteworthy and worth trying to correct. (Thanks for doing that CR, as always, what you do is greatly appreciated).
Much like the "forecasts" from the NAR, what comes out of Washington at this point is considered 100% spin.
Actually, the problem with the NAR isn't that they put out misinformation so much as what they say is dutifully repeated by major media outlets.
Since most of them begin and end their reporting with the NAR's press release (actually the first three graphs of the release) they serve as little more than propaganda outlets for a propaganda outfit.
I think that's one of the things that newspaper's et.al. still don't get as their problem. Hell, I can (and do) get the press release myself, but I actually read the whole thing and compare it to what they said before. If I was still at a paper, I'd probably also try and call a couple of economists and get their take. Somehow, for too many media outlets, that's too much to ask.
True enough, but what I meant was, sales have to turn up before construction because of inventories. Add in the clear advantage NAHB has in the veracity stakes, and NAHB lags NAR.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I followed the Michael Swanson link in CR's piece yesterday on Wel's Fargo's home building call, and I understand why CR put it there in the first place.
If you didn't follow it, I'll fill you in. Swanson's area of expertise and focus is on agricultural economics. As a matter of fact, he's one of four economists listed on Wells Fargo's staff. None seem to have any particular expertise in housing.
"Now, a full-on depression may be avoidable, but given the market's irrationality -and- politician's penchant to do exactly the wrong thing I fully expect we'll have one of those, too."
Yes, and with Smoot-Hawley II cooking in the oven, GDII is virtually certain. Meanwhile, the theory of China assuming the role of the US in 1929, and the US mirroring the UK still holds. Any worldwide stock crash will definitely start (has already started?) in China, imho.
in regarsd to the Fannie 1% pricing it is for a specialty program called My Community....here is the release we received today
This is a follow-up to the announcement released yesterday regarding the immediate changes to the My Community Mortgage price adjustments. Fannie Mae released an announcement stating that My Community Mortgage loans would be assessed an additional 1.00 adjustment starting August 1st. The August 1st deadline has created an uproar among mortgage lenders due to the fact that an August 1st delivery date means that all loans need to be placed into July securities. Announcing that a loan needs to be placed into a July security when we are already into the month of June puts us in a very difficult situation because the loans locked or extended that will not fund by June 22 will have to be subsidized by corporate. If Fannie sticks to the August 1st deadline corporate will incur a loss that will exceed 1MM. Whenever corporate does not give lead time on a change it is not because we are unwilling to share in the impact of the change, but rather we have exhausted all options or in the process of finding a solution, but in the meantime cannot absorb any more loans because each additional loan will result in a loss. There are many times where corporate subsidizes a loss so that the branch can have a time period to clean out the pipeline. In this situation Fannie has put the mortgage lenders in a very difficult predicament because no lead time was given to clear these loans. We understand that this is a major change for many of the branches and have worked hard on our end to find a solution so that we could provide you with an opportunity to clear out any My Community loans in the pipeline. The below revised lock policy will be extended to retail branches only. Please meet the below deadlines because exceptions to the below policy will not be possible.
RETAIL ONLY
· 15 day lock will be allowed with expiration no later than 6/20/07
· Loan file must be scanned in or shipping received no later than 6/22/07
· Failure to scan full file or have full file shipping received by 6/22/07 will result in current price adjustments outlined below
· No extensions will be allowed
· Lock requests must be faxed to the pricing department to honor the previous price adjustments and will be accepted until the end of business Friday June 8th.
I'm sure this is old news, but from Western Union's 10Q for Q1, remittances to mexico are down 7%, Q4 was -2%. Doesn't exactly jibe with the employment data
k harris,
I did take the point. I was adding my own sinister sub-plot. It is interesting to see the large developments continue as it's less costly to finish the ongoing projects. The big players are survivors however, and I think most will be around after the cycle has run its course. The RE veterans I know have seen this bust coming for 2 years or more.
Laughs, oh well. Everybody who hasn't yet geared up with fixed- last chance!!! Get your redhot fixed rate debt before you have to pay more!!!
Stagflation with a dead housing market!!! Wahooooooo!!!
I am so happy that this is finally going to start impacting Wall Street!!!
Kuwait dropped it's link to the dollar- how's that for gratitude. Gave them their postage stamp floating on oil back, and now they start selling us down the river...
A "flight to quality" for which the destination is the 10-yr. Trashury is an oxymoron, no? Yes, a stock market crash might generate enough knee-jerk buying to drive rates down 20 or 30 basis points, but all the way to 3% -- hard to imagine there are that many greater fools in the galaxy.
my opinion is that the fed will have no choice but to lower rates significantly to address economic weakness, confidence, and problems in the credit markets.
It's hard to drive rates down to 3% if vendor financing of the consumer drops....less recycling means less purchasing of bonds...hello higher rates along with lower growth or a recession.
That's the nasty part about big debts...they don't reverse and shrink when everything else starts liquidating...they just keep growing (especially because their is less cash flow to recycle in debt).
Anyway, the debt eventually crushes some in the form of BK, which reduces the returns to many who thought they're above average investors only to find out they're holding the first big BKs...and then the rush for the exits begins.
When the music stops, you find out who's been wearing swim suits, as Buffer always likes to say.
Expired
Now, the borrowers can charge their mortgage on AE card. This is a hugh trap. If you can't make the payment you walk and foreclose the house. But once the money charged to the card then the only way to get out is BK. The BK law was changed by credit card companies(thanks to the chimp and cons). They can change the rates to 40% at their wish. If you file the BK, they still can dig into your 401k, life saving and other properties. Basically, there is no way to walk away from BK.
So GDP predictions are officially below the growth line, so it's officially a growth recession. What happens when the "good times" stop?
I think October is when it really starts getting ugly for CRE and the economy in general.
could it be that median price is down because sub-prime is somewhat back ?
If Feb-march it stopped but now there is a come back pulling the median down ?
or is it really a drop in P per Sq Ft. ?
Re Lazear, "It's hard to get someone to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
True of a lot of people these days...
Listening to housing advice from NAR is like listening to the magic 8 Ball. I may have better luck with the 8 ball. Atleast I know it isn't biased.
NAR is also predicting a nice rebound starting in 2008. It would be nice if they could publish something on their rationale for the turnaround.
I guess that government officials can't acknowledge that a large segment of the economy has weak prospects. It's easy to just say that the forecast is unclear (or that it's bound to get better next year).
"...we've probably had much of the decline that we're expecting to have."
Edward Lazear, Chairman of the White House's Council of Economic Advisers, 2006
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899 (attributed)
When an "expert" like Edward Lazear predicts anything, I tend to wager on the opposite.
Fed's Lacker-banks can absorb subprime losses
FREDERICK, Md., June 6 (Reuters) - U.S. banks are well positioned to absorb any losses from the rise in delinquencies and foreclosures in U.S. mortgage markets, Richmond Federal Reserve President Jeffrey Lacker said on Wednesday.
Funny, I thought it was just us chicken littles that were concerned about the banks' exposure (and subprime is just the beginning). Now why would a respected Fed bank pres go around with reassurances for something so extreme?
These Fed clowns are funny. Every extreme event that they say is just fine must be collapsing much worse than even bears suspect.
Trouble ahead.
Brian23 - "Listening to housing advice from NAR is like listening to the magic 8 Ball."
Despite the gawd-awful headline, this one actually provides some not-too-bad advice. "Money Train: Get On Board", NPR audio, June 5, 2007.
"In February the NAR forecast sales would fall to 6.44 million. In April they revised their forecast to 6.34 million (a decline of 2.2% from 2006). Their new forecast is a decline of 4.6%. Still too high, but I suppose if they revise their forecast down 2% every couple of months, they might be close by the end of the year!"
If you have to forecast, forecast often! When do you think the 08 numbers start coming down?
Maybe the housing market turns around in 08 because a hedge fund liquidity event causes the markets to crater in 07?
I heard today, and maybe Tanta could verify, that Fannie Mae has begun to charge 1%, but, has continued to buy zero down originations, these costs are then passed on the the borrower in various forms.
As far as hedge funds and a possible liquidity event, I expect to see HY spreads move significantly, I expect if allowed under the investment guidlines to see managers move into the bank debt space for increased coverage in the case of default, I would also expect to see any ownership of covenant lite/toggle type loans to be sold in anticipation of a liquidity driven event.
Contrary to Yal's claim that I have changed my view, nothing has changed.
Recession probability 70%, a forced repricing of risk assets, an eventual flight to quality in fixed income markets potentially driving yields ultimately down to 3% on the 10yr, my prediction for recession beginning Q3 07, if we get a blip up in Q4, Q1 08.
The risk of a credit driven event is rising daily, my opinion is the HY market participants are concerned, as highlighted by Fitch, they should certainly be concerned due to the amount of leverage in the system.
doctcommunist-
with the potential for assets to be overstated on company balance sheets, I would expect that recovery assumptions, even on bank debt backed by corporate assets, would optimistically only yield 80% in most cases.
Well, the NAHB has said that the turn-around won't come in 2008, and good times won't return till 2011. NAHB lags NAR, right?
There's this thing called dishonesty. I guess it really never comes up unless you're Patrick Fitzgerald, so we should try to ignore it.
Of course, I do not include Chuck Prince. Definitionally, he could not be dishonest.
Citigroup to pay 15 mln usd to settle charges over misleading sales documents - Forbes.com
RiskC
Speaking of toggle notes -
Nearly every LBO has them now - which accounts for the rapid rise of tech buyouts. Apparently one IB (don't know which) is trying to push the idea of toggle bank loans. ?!
Risk Capital: I was joking of course.
did not understand the 1% FNM issue.
Don't forget when you hear more "this is the bottom" calls out of the trade groups and certain policymakers, these are the same guys who denied a bubble in the first place, then after the bubble burst, have repeatedly called "the bottom."
For nostalgia's sake, why not peruse this web page, where you can read all about the NAR's "Now is a great time to buy OR sell a home" campaign:
Newspaper Ad Says It's a Great Time to Buy
I especially like the "The Best Time to Buy is Now" fact sheet (warning -- PDF link):
http://www.realtor.org/files/home_buyers___sellers/buy_now_fact_sheet.pdf
You know, the one that highlights how inventory is on the decline (it has since hit the highest level in U.S. history). And I especially like this gem: "The national median home price will rise 1.6% in 2006 and prices are expected to rise again in the first quarter of 2007"
I have no problem with blown forecasts -- we all mess up all the time. What I can't stomach is the repetition of the continual "That's it! The worst is over!" mantra month in and month out ... when it has proven wrong, month in and month out.
Morgan Stanley issues triple sell warning on equities - Telegraph
Well, I suppose if one lies repeatedly before a grand jury dishonesty does come into play. And then one should be worrying about someone like Pat Fitzgerald. Hmmm?
"In February the NAR forecast sales would fall to 6.44 million. In April they revised their forecast to 6.34 million (a decline of 2.2% from 2006). Their new forecast is a decline of 4.6%. Still too high, but I suppose if they revise their forecast down 2% every couple of months, they might be close by the end of the year!"
--Where is Winston Smith when you need him?
By 11-01-07 the housing market will be in a state of panic!
Triple sell sounds like "double secret probation" to me.
D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!
k harris,
NAHB represents many publicly traded companies which are subject to Sarbanes. The NAR has no such teather to reality.
Triple Sell Signal Today at Morgan Stanley?
I'll give you a triple sell signal...
Average LT US Total Stock Market Cap/GDP 50%
1929 - US Total Stock Market Cap/GDP 100%
2000 - US Total Stock Market Cap/GDP 153%
TODAY - US Market Cap/GDP 200%
Strike Three, You're OUT!
Good luck to All.
Recession probability 70%
Nah. Recession probability 100%. The only way it won't happen is if the world ends beforehand.
Now, a full-on depression may be avoidable, but given the market's irrationality -and- politician's penchant to do exactly the wrong thing I fully expect we'll have one of those, too.
You know, I know it's wrong, but after 7 years of it, I just expect anyone associated with this administration to lie, so I don't hold them to the same standards as, say, the economists who work for Wells Fargo. When those guys blow it, I think it's noteworthy and worth trying to correct. (Thanks for doing that CR, as always, what you do is greatly appreciated).
Much like the "forecasts" from the NAR, what comes out of Washington at this point is considered 100% spin.
Actually, the problem with the NAR isn't that they put out misinformation so much as what they say is dutifully repeated by major media outlets.
Since most of them begin and end their reporting with the NAR's press release (actually the first three graphs of the release) they serve as little more than propaganda outlets for a propaganda outfit.
I think that's one of the things that newspaper's et.al. still don't get as their problem. Hell, I can (and do) get the press release myself, but I actually read the whole thing and compare it to what they said before. If I was still at a paper, I'd probably also try and call a couple of economists and get their take. Somehow, for too many media outlets, that's too much to ask.
Lama,
True enough, but what I meant was, sales have to turn up before construction because of inventories. Add in the clear advantage NAHB has in the veracity stakes, and NAHB lags NAR.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I followed the Michael Swanson link in CR's piece yesterday on Wel's Fargo's home building call, and I understand why CR put it there in the first place.
If you didn't follow it, I'll fill you in. Swanson's area of expertise and focus is on agricultural economics. As a matter of fact, he's one of four economists listed on Wells Fargo's staff. None seem to have any particular expertise in housing.
Of course, why would they need that?
I surprised no one mentioned the passing of the spin baton at NAR from David Lereah to Lawrence Yun.
"Now, a full-on depression may be avoidable, but given the market's irrationality -and- politician's penchant to do exactly the wrong thing I fully expect we'll have one of those, too."
Yes, and with Smoot-Hawley II cooking in the oven, GDII is virtually certain. Meanwhile, the theory of China assuming the role of the US in 1929, and the US mirroring the UK still holds. Any worldwide stock crash will definitely start (has already started?) in China, imho.
Darth, isn't the size of China's market capitalization miniscule as compared to the size of (1) the Chinese economy and (2) western markets and Japan?
I'm not arguing China won't have a crash, but relatively, does it matter all that much?
in regarsd to the Fannie 1% pricing it is for a specialty program called My Community....here is the release we received today
This is a follow-up to the announcement released yesterday regarding the immediate changes to the My Community Mortgage price adjustments. Fannie Mae released an announcement stating that My Community Mortgage loans would be assessed an additional 1.00 adjustment starting August 1st. The August 1st deadline has created an uproar among mortgage lenders due to the fact that an August 1st delivery date means that all loans need to be placed into July securities. Announcing that a loan needs to be placed into a July security when we are already into the month of June puts us in a very difficult situation because the loans locked or extended that will not fund by June 22 will have to be subsidized by corporate. If Fannie sticks to the August 1st deadline corporate will incur a loss that will exceed 1MM. Whenever corporate does not give lead time on a change it is not because we are unwilling to share in the impact of the change, but rather we have exhausted all options or in the process of finding a solution, but in the meantime cannot absorb any more loans because each additional loan will result in a loss. There are many times where corporate subsidizes a loss so that the branch can have a time period to clean out the pipeline. In this situation Fannie has put the mortgage lenders in a very difficult predicament because no lead time was given to clear these loans. We understand that this is a major change for many of the branches and have worked hard on our end to find a solution so that we could provide you with an opportunity to clear out any My Community loans in the pipeline. The below revised lock policy will be extended to retail branches only. Please meet the below deadlines because exceptions to the below policy will not be possible.
RETAIL ONLY
· 15 day lock will be allowed with expiration no later than 6/20/07
· Loan file must be scanned in or shipping received no later than 6/22/07
· Failure to scan full file or have full file shipping received by 6/22/07 will result in current price adjustments outlined below
· No extensions will be allowed
· Lock requests must be faxed to the pricing department to honor the previous price adjustments and will be accepted until the end of business Friday June 8th.
OT
I'm sure this is old news, but from Western Union's 10Q for Q1, remittances to mexico are down 7%, Q4 was -2%. Doesn't exactly jibe with the employment data
k harris,
I did take the point. I was adding my own sinister sub-plot. It is interesting to see the large developments continue as it's less costly to finish the ongoing projects. The big players are survivors however, and I think most will be around after the cycle has run its course. The RE veterans I know have seen this bust coming for 2 years or more.
Five million even!!!
Remember my forecast!!!
Laughs, oh well. Everybody who hasn't yet geared up with fixed- last chance!!! Get your redhot fixed rate debt before you have to pay more!!!
Stagflation with a dead housing market!!! Wahooooooo!!!
I am so happy that this is finally going to start impacting Wall Street!!!
Kuwait dropped it's link to the dollar- how's that for gratitude. Gave them their postage stamp floating on oil back, and now they start selling us down the river...
Someday this war's gonna end....
RC:
A "flight to quality" for which the destination is the 10-yr. Trashury is an oxymoron, no? Yes, a stock market crash might generate enough knee-jerk buying to drive rates down 20 or 30 basis points, but all the way to 3% -- hard to imagine there are that many greater fools in the galaxy.
4shzl-
my opinion is that the fed will have no choice but to lower rates significantly to address economic weakness, confidence, and problems in the credit markets.
Why wouldn't flight to quality be to gilts? The yield is pretty good and you get a currency hedge to boot.
It's hard to drive rates down to 3% if vendor financing of the consumer drops....less recycling means less purchasing of bonds...hello higher rates along with lower growth or a recession.
That's the nasty part about big debts...they don't reverse and shrink when everything else starts liquidating...they just keep growing (especially because their is less cash flow to recycle in debt).
their/there....there.
Anyway, the debt eventually crushes some in the form of BK, which reduces the returns to many who thought they're above average investors only to find out they're holding the first big BKs...and then the rush for the exits begins.
When the music stops, you find out who's been wearing swim suits, as Buffer always likes to say.
Yes, I love to mangle metaphors....and type too fast on a break.
"I am so happy that this is finally going to start impacting Wall Street"
Makes it harder for me. I expect RE to sink slowly in real terms for two or three years. I want that to be a buying oportunity.
If you mix in a market crash, then you have the competing opportunity of low stock prices.
Sinking RE plus crashing stocks would mean the recession was on, and jobs are not safe.
Not having wealth to play both options, and having income tied to the consumer, a mansion would be to risky and vain.
Sparrows don't make effective vultures.
Name,
some of us have more gribblies than others- when I can rent it out for a cash flow profit, the time is right.
Just not right now, for sure.