SoCal home sales hit 12-year low

SoCal home sales hit 12-year low

So we're finally at the point where all the brokers can say they've never seen anything like this in their lifetimes.

LMAO! Really though, that ought to have an interesting effect on their psychology, no?

Is that a comment on the average lifetime of a broker?

No, I think that was a comment by Tanta on their relative age and wet-behind-the-ears mentality.

I posted on the sales activity in the San Fernando Valley a couple weeks ago. While the final sales numbers look bad- from memory, down "only" 10-15% y/y or something, the pending sales numbers are horrific. The worst is yet to come, at least around here. The pending sales are down more like 35%, and I would venture a guess that the number of failed escrows will be higher than last year, resulting in some serious sales volume declines yet to be reported for May and June.

Bill Gross of PIMCO once called the affects of reduced low end home sales to the "Plankton Effect". Once the number of plankton drop off, the entire food chain is eventually thinned out. Now that 1st time buyers have disappeared along with flippers, only move-up buyers are left. However, their only problem is that they cannot sell their home in order to move up into a larger one.

Bubble Bubble Toilet Trouble - Fireworks

San Fernando Valley is the epicenter for the LA Metro housing bubble. Follow the link below and type in an address in this area and see how many houses are about to, and already to be foreclosed. Amazing!
ForeclosureRadar

The LA Times, especially Ms Haddad, has been less than impartial during this housing crisis. Her credibility is about as good as Lereah right about now, just a notch above Baghdad's Bob. Unfortunately, the Times business editor continues to propagate this kind of information to the readers.

Forgive if already posted, but Ohio AG is on the move against subprime lenders:

Ohio Attorney General Targets Wall Street for Lending (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

This is the most bearish dataquick monthly report I've seen in a long time.

"In addition to cyclical factors, there are other potential culprits behind the current lull: a buyer-seller standoff, the huge rush to buy during the frenzy (leaving less demand for today), tighter mortgage money, or something more ominous like a severe market correction."

"Several inland markets are showing early signs of distress"

So, now they are aknowledging the market could be on the verge. No suggestions in the report about any bottom this time around. That's about as bearish as it gets for DQ....

"he wants to sue securities firms because their bond sales enabled consumers to get mortgages they couldn't afford."

Well, good luck with that.

"he wants to sue securities firms because their bond sales enabled consumers to get mortgages they couldn't afford."

What he wants is to become governor someday.

MBA applications obsolete, median prices useless. OPHEO inertia not operative. Not good times for statistics.

the joke of 50 yr:

$400,000 loan at 6% 30yr fix = $2398.20 . . . . .total pmt = $863,352
$400,000 loan at 6% 40yr fix = $2200.85 . . . . .total pmt = $1,056,408
$400,000 loan at 6% 100yr fix = $2005.04 . . . . .total pmt = $2,406,048

$400,000 loan at 7% 30yr fix = $2661.21 . . . . .total pmt = $958,035
$400,000 loan at 7% 40yr fix = $2485.72 . . . . .total pmt = $1,193145
$400,000 loan at 7% 100yr fix = $2335.50 . . . . .total pmt = $2,802,600

Real Estate agents getting kind of testy about all that information that Zillow, RedFin, et al puts in customer hands:

Nothing found for Realestate 2007 05 History-does-not-set-market-price

Fidelity's Bolton Says Stock Markets Ready to Fall (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

btw, CR/Tanta: there must be a better way to evalute home prices than to rely on useless NAR Stats ?

Anon:

I disagree with your assesment.

Ms. Haddad was the first mainstream reporter to do a story on housing bubble blogs.

She is an equal opportunity offender to both sides of the housing debate.

Semiconductor equipment manufacturer Applied Materials (AMAT) estimates fiscal Q3 orders down 10%-15%

Does AMAT supply chips for "smart" appliances?

Does AMAT supply chips for "smart" appliances?
tj & the bear: no, AMAT does not make any chips. They make equipment for making chips. Chipmakers like Intel, Motorola, etc. buy their equipment. I their orders are down it means their customers are likely getting fewer orders or they are tightening the belt.

So we're finally at the point where all the brokers can say they've never seen anything like this in their lifetimes.
Tanta

Really? I thought they were already at that point last year.

there must be a better way to evalute home prices than to rely on useless NAR Stats

See the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices. S&P's webpage has data through Feb. 2007 for 20 cities.

Here's Paper Money's graphical tool to select cities and date ranges, showing Los Angeles and the Composite.

Considering the population growth of California the weakness in numbers are understated versus historical comparison. I bet 1995 was still worse (since it was later in the cycle at that point, 60-70 months in) per capita, but I bet things are much worse earlier than they were during the last bust.

OT reply-
"Semiconductor equipment manufacturer Applied Materials (AMAT) estimates fiscal Q3 orders down 10%-15%"

Completely predictable. Their biggest market is companies that make DRAM memory (the type that's in your PC). Those firms all geared up for a PC sales explosion following the introduction of Vista.
Vista bombed, and now there's a huge surplus of DRAM. Spot price is now below marginal cost of production. Nobody's going to be buying much chip making equipment for quite some time.

Big inventories building throughout tech. Pretty clear there's some sort of slowdown occuring in US.

Re: AMAT

AMAT is the leader in the Chip Equipment sector. Intel, Micron and other chip manufacturers buy equipment from AMAT.

Traditionally, AMAT has been a sort of a bellwether for the entire Tech sector. AMAT turns down (or up) a couple of quarters before the tech sector turns down (or up).

Remains to be seen whether that link still holds this time.

Vista bombed, and now there's a huge surplus of DRAM.

Yeah, but look how much Micro$oft is spinning to make sure you think Vista is doing really, really well:

Technology News: Software: Gates Gushes Over Peppy Vista Sales
They claim to have already sold 40Million copies. I don't buy it. I don't know of anyone who rushed out to buy Vista.

Here's a more realistic take:
Vista sales surging? Not so fast! - Computerworld Blogs

...of course, DRAM prices don't lie: Vista really hasn't sold all that well.

Its interesting that SoCal home sales are down to 1995 levels which was the trough of the last RE cycle. And we are not even in a recession yet. If this is what Goldilocks looks like for housing and mortgage finance I don't want to imagine what a big bear looks like!

Tanta, where can a fellow see the total originations for a specific state on a quarterly basis (preferably but not necessarily by loan type)?

thanks.

No one buys operating systems except when they buy new machines... even thinking that they would is sooooo mid-nineties-ish... you hear me Bill?

Back on RE... I must admit I'm a bit surprised the bottom segment is doing as badly as the report suggests. I'd expect the middle to be hardest hit... with the high end 'exempt' because the rich never feel pain and the low end holding its own as people are forced to move down out of the middle.

But maybe because So Cal's low end is so high people moving down have only one option... and that's renting.

In my world some neighborhoods are so cheap they are STILL cheaper than rent (two homes within a few blocks of where I live are asking LESS than $100K and are plenty livable). Here you rent not because owning is too expensive but for other reasons (like being able to freely leave this cheap neighborhood).

while I'm at it, I wanted to understand a few more things and would truly appreciate your help. If I look at a lender's books and I want to ballpark loss reserves as % assets, what's the best approach? I see many people taking loss reserves as % NPAs and NPAs as % of assets, and multiplying these two numbers. Why is that? Has it historically been easy to make up rule of thumbs for these figures?

Another Q: when a company's LLRs and COs and NPAs are clearly below anything normal whereas its business is clearly above-average-risk and still growing, can we know how much (roughly) of the nonsense is attributable to forbearance and how much to liberal estimates?

I am also confused about forbearance vs. mods. We often had the people who came on here and piled up on lenders for mod'ing as a way to not have to write down assets, but aren't modified loans still part of NPA? And aren't some of them possibly still in non-accrual?

Much thanks...as always. This half-uber-nerd wants to become a gold member.

Few days back TSM & UMC posted lower earnings. They are #1 & #2 contract chip manufacturers.

Expired

And here come the "Johnny-come-lately's"....

I want to see the e-mails, I want to see the documents,'' he said.I'm guessing somebody at some or all of these places was predicting the bottom was going to fall out.''

Many have said that NOW the PE and LBO craze was a bubble and had the potential to be the next more massive blow-up, but, these morons are still dealing in the past pointing fingers. The legislators are so very worthless.

Ohio Attorney General Targets Wall Street for Lending (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Expired

"Federal banking regulators are giving lenders more flexibility when they restructure high-interest rate mortgages given to home buyers with poor credit.

The effort by the Office of Thrift Supervision and other agencies is aimed at softening the impact of the housing market's slowdown and bolsters the argument of lawmakers who say mortgage reforms may not be needed."

What he wants is to become governor someday.
Bingo, we have a winner ... you hit the mark. He is taking a page out of Eliot Spitzer's playbook. Recall that Gov. Spitzer made a nice name for himself as NY attorney general, busting Wall St. crooks during the dot-com meltdown. Now he's in the Gov. mansion.

Personally, I'm pulling for the Ohio AG. I wouldn't bet against him, the crooks may have deep pockets but these days you can get a jury to do just about anything in this country.

Totally OT: found this link on Implode-O-Meter

This is some must see TV (seriously!). Perfect example of what happens in a bubble.

Flip this house exposed

Tanta, where can a fellow see the total originations for a specific state on a quarterly basis (preferably but not necessarily by loan type)?

In my dreams. Well, and apparently in yours, too.

There are places from which you can buy some expensive data that will estimate that for you. Otherwise, you're pretty much stuck with looking at conforming data (OFHEO, MIRS), then sampling some private lenders who disclose this, and then ballparkin'.

If I look at a lender's books and I want to ballpark loss reserves as % assets, what's the best approach? I see many people taking loss reserves as % NPAs and NPAs as % of assets, and multiplying these two numbers. Why is that?

Reserve amount = what I expect to write off, net of recovery

NPA = total balance of loan that might end up in a write-off

Reserve/NPA balance = expected loss severity per delinquent loan

loss severity times delinquency rate (NPA/assets) = cumulative loss on portfolio

That's the way an MBS does it, so to do that with a lender's portfolio makes them comparable figures.

I am also confused about forbearance vs. mods. We often had the people who came on here and piled up on lenders for mod'ing as a way to not have to write down assets, but aren't modified loans still part of NPA? And aren't some of them possibly still in non-accrual?

A modified loan that is making payments again is now "performing," so it's not in NPA, strictly speaking. Some lenders might reserve against its once-modified loans as it would for NPAs, on the theory that they are more likely to result in loss than the never-modified part of the portfolio, but one is not required to keep reporting them as nonperforming when they have started performing again. It's not in non-accrual--non-accrual is only for a loan you deem doubtful of collection. Once the borrower starts making payments again, you go back to accruing income on the loan.

Forbearance is just giving someone up to 90 days (generally) to skip or make partial payments, with the understanding that the lender won't foreclose if you catch up by the expiration of the forbearance period. Those loans would show as delinquent but not in non-accrual. You don't non-accrue until you're ready to send the notice of intent to foreclose.

In other words, a modification is a "workout." The loan will have been NPA or possibly non-accrual (depending on how severely behind it got) before it was modified, but once it's fixed, it's fixed. If the lender had to write off some interest or principal in order to fix it, that shows up in bad debt expense (charge on the reserves).

It would show up on a cumulative/historical delinquency report, but alas, a balance sheet is not a historical document. It is a snapshot of the end of a period, with some comparisons to earlier snapshots.

when a company's LLRs and COs and NPAs are clearly below anything normal whereas its business is clearly above-average-risk and still growing,

It is always possible that this lender has a crackerjack collections department. I know, I know, but there are lenders with very very good servicing departments, and you give them the "credit" for that. It comes down to your best estimate of what you think a servicer can do. If I saw a fairly new (unseasoned) operation or portfolio, with a lot of concentration in high-risk markets, a lot of ARMs, especially a lot of Option ARMs, I'd be inclined to want to see more cash reserves on the table than claims about what a great servicer they are. (Did you ever see Fremont's last investor powerpoint, where they went on and on about what a great servicer they were? Then they got the C&D like a month later?)

My whole problem with the piling on you reference is that I think a servicer who can and does modify and therefore actually bring its book current is doing what a servicer is supposed to do to control losses. Conversely, a servicer who can't or won't get that done will have to report a lot of NPAs. So I was always bemused by people who think modifications "hide" losses. They "prevent" losses, if they're done right. If they're not done right? Well, then the loans will eventually go bad again and the final losses will show up on the books somewhere.

Fireworks - "Bill Gross of PIMCO once called the affects of reduced low end home sales to the 'Plankton Effect'."

The following article refers to Bill Gross writings on this from 1980.

"The Plankton Theory Meets Minsky" , by Paul McCulley, PIMCO, March 2007.

"No one buys operating systems except when they buy new machines... "

Methinks thou hast not seen the line up at the Apple stores when the mighty Steven lets slip the cats of operations.

Reserve/NPA balance = expected loss severity per delinquent loan

Yes but all these lenders are reporting reserves for ALL loans (current, delinquent, and NPA) as % of total NPA. (for anyone else reading this, I’m talking about the number that is usually in the 100%-1000% range). So... why are they commingling a statistic for all loans with a statistic for a subset (NPA only) of loans? Clearly this widespread usage implies that there’s some rule of thumb which can help us draw or 'feel' a connection between NPA and all loans (NPA + delinquent + healthy). I am wondering what that rule of thumb is - i.e. Does the fact that a company currently has x NPAs mean that they are likely to have somewhere between cx and dx NPAs in the future (where c,d are ballpark constants)? As I write this I realize the answer’s probably yes, but I feel that a nice little real estate bubble can change that premise. Specifically, a very concentrated amount of originations within a 90-day period can foreshadow near-future NPAs from unsuccessful flippers. Furthermore, a heavy concentration of option ARMs with similar terms can cause a tsunami of recasts. Anyhow, before the real estate bubble started, was there a rule of thumb for this relationship?

In other words, a modification is a "workout." The loan will have been NPA or possibly non-accrual

So a loan can be NPA but not yet non-accrual? Here’s FED’s definition: "We define non-performing assets as loans delinquent over 90 days, loans in foreclosure and real estate acquired by foreclosure (real estate owned)." So there are some lenders for whom NPA starts earlier...or is it their non-accrual that starts later??

"No one buys operating systems except when they buy new machines... "

Well, I'll agree with Shakes on the Apple side. But... I worked in IT once upon a time. And when Microsoft comes out with a new OS or version of Office, they make a big push to have the corporate user upgrade now: or risk paying 25/50/100 percent more for their site licenses later.

I'll reckon that a big hunk of Microsoft's "millions of copies" were sold under the usual duress to corporate IT departments who feel they have no choice. But it's a bit like the housing market, or cars offered with zero percent financing: make some big marks now by sacrificing future demand.

I'd expect the middle to be hardest hit... with the high end 'exempt' because the rich never feel pain

Yes but the rich haven't been buying the high end at inflated prices. The smart money has been selling - you know, like Warren Buffett.

The ones who have been buying high end properties at the top are the poseurs and speculators, and they are going to get hammered just like all the other cowboys.

CR posted an article on declines in high-end NY suburbs just a few days ago.

CR: question about permits.

are the permit number always higher than the "hoisng starts" number 6 month later ?

in other words if you pull a building permit for a new addition, shed, garage or to finish a basement is this counted in the "permits" number ?

if so the number today is even worse ...

S&P calls housing bottom(.pdf)

Fun little topic starters as:

Homes Are Less Affordable
A Dubious Record for Home Prices

But what do they say?
housing knocks 1% off of GDP
DTI ratio drops to 280% Q1 08 from 319% Q4 06
12.1 % of borrowers have more than 40% of their income tied up in debt service

And conclusion? (here come the 3 handed economist jokes)

A: Slow decline of 8% from 2006 highs bottoming in 2008, doesn't affect the economy

B: Fast decline of 20% due to the weak US$, causing a spike in interest rate, causing a recession in Q4 07 and subsequent market correction.

And on the other other hand, doomsday scenario:
C: Nationwide price reductions like TX 80's and NE early 90's, subprime causes credit crunch, governments restrict FC's causing property values to crater, cats are sleeping with dogs.

Nice catch, Alec, thanks. There's some good information in that S&P report.

Sebastia

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