Realtors, Builders oppose another Housing Tax Credit
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Thu, 09/02/2010 - 1:22pm (428 comments)
Shopping at Amazon?
Wait! If you click on the Amazon banner link at the top of the page first, HCN will get a percentage of anything you purchase for 24 hours!
Open predictions
Our local book authors
User login
Who's online
There are currently 41 members and 173 guests online.
Currently online
- gabyjan
- kratovil1
- shill
- JP
- merchants of fear
- burnside
- Lobbyist Ben Dover
- Blue Guy Red State
- Eric
- Mike in Long Island
- GrandOldTurkey
- Rob Dawg
- ResistanceIsFeudal
- bearly
- Whiskey
- Sebastian
- Bruce in Tennessee
- Comrade Kristina
- Cobradriver
- traderwalt
- Black Star Ranch
- silvertoes two
- black dog
- mr_clueless
- Windward.Broach
- Mert717
- Blackhalo
- Firemane
- BelieverJeff
- Nanoo-Nanoo
- nova
- CalculatedRisk
- Anonymous Bosch
- Outsider
- yjacket
- gruntled
- RayOnTheFarm
- Tom Stone
- Vonbek777
- dr munch
- Lurking Lawyer
Recent Recommendations
Pretty sure he means "We are not advocating another one at this time."
Br'er Rabbit said the same thing.
I want a tax credit, I mean why not, it's free right?
Just like the states who suggested they would not take the stimulus cash?
I'll take one year at a time. Sounds like no one is pushing for one right now.
best wishes
I think Nemo has it pretty much correct.
NAR exists why?
"the Obama Administration has been providing political cover for the Fed to conduct a massive, reverse Robin Hood scheme, moving trillions of dollars in resources from savers and consumers to the big banks and their share and bond holders."
From Chris Whalen, via Naked Capitalism:
Chris Whalen has a particularly tough-minded post at Reuters in which he explains why QE does little for the real economy (similar to the conclusions reached by the Bank of Japan regarding its own QE) and why its benefits for banks fade over time. Key sections:
When interest rates are low, savers move their preference for liquidity to infinity, especially after the past several years of market breakdown. Retirees spend less because the interest earned on bonds and savings has plummeted….
When the Fed buys securities through QE, it is removing duration from the markets, pushing down yields and volatility. For a while this boosts the net interest margin (NIM) of leveraged investors such as banks, who are able to borrow at lower rates to fund current assets. As assets re-price to the low rates maintained by the Fed, however, NIM begins to disappear. Over the medium to longer term, think of duration and NIM as being linked, so obviously a sustained period of QE is bad for NIM. This is why NIM in the U.S. banking sector is starting to fall.
Just as the earnings of leveraged investors like banks are starting to suffer due to zero rate policy, so too the spending by all manner of savers, from retirees to companies and not-for-profits to municipalities, is falling too. Fed Chairman Bernanke and the other members of the FOMC are killing the real economy to save the banks — but none of the benefit flowing to the banks is reaching U.S. households. In fact, the Obama Administration has been providing political cover for the Fed to conduct a massive, reverse Robin Hood scheme, moving trillions of dollars in resources from savers and consumers to the big banks and their share and bond holders.
Cool, so we've torpedoed housing sales this week with that wild speculation. Next up? Automobiles. Spin up the "considering Cash for Clunkers" opine by LaHood. This is fun. We can torpedo rotating sectors of the economy just by having Sec's float bad rumors about future tax credits.
'shrooms and debating don't mix...
YouTube - Jan Brewer's Opening Statement for the Gubernatorial Debate...OMG, It's a Train Wreck!
And the fungus builders would like a subsidy.
Has anyone here ever used Priceline or some type of hotel room-auction-gizmo?
Heard stories, rumors, good things, bad things, anything???
Nice to see a little bit of sanity in DC. We still need more stimulus, but lets make it effective stimulus. More infrastructure spending would be at the top of the agenda. A reduction in the payroll tax, particularly for incremental hires, would also be worthy of serious consideration.
If the HBs were to be cut loose from their bank ties most of them would BK in a Wall Street minute. They don't need a credit because they have something better in their blood funnel bank relationship.
omg. what a train wreck.
Former Idealist wrote:
You'll need a lobbyist...
Is it tax deductible?
Rob Dawg wrote:
It exists to perpetuate its existence. Corporations are people too, and have a right to exist.
Former Idealist wrote:
Depends on how good your lobbyist is....
What they want is to cut out the middleman, ie. buyer, and just give a credit directly to the realtors & builders. Perhaps a little bailout cash too ?
~splat
bed bugs.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
Instead of more stimulus how about less drainage?
Basel Too wrote:
Arizona must be the most perfect state in the union since it has done everything, under the leadership of its governor: cut the budget, balanced the budget, passed its immigration law, and filed suit against the healthcare law.
Shall we take it as a model to behold?
Any Arizonians out there to testify?
...the Stepford State has the most Byzantine politics
Former Idealist wrote:
I'm picturing a cat holding out a hat with big eyes and a caption "I CAN HAZ TAX CREZ PLZ ?"
~splat
Former Idealist wrote:
Oh great, that wasn't the story I wanted....
GM, on the other hand, likes the idea of another cash for clunkers.
iceman wrote:
I would say that has been their business model for 50 years, but they did a lot of financing, too, so people could buy their clunkers on credit
I gotta go, you guys are cracking me up...tears in eyes!
Yep. We need to focus our efforts on overstimulating and causing excess capacity in other parts of the economy.
They had their chance and caved. Despite all the stimulus dollars we have seen zero employment growth and in fact it now may be worsening with
ac wrote:
We don't have excess capacity in wind power, solar power, modern transmission lines, rail and light rail and subways, modern airports, clean drinking water, modern health clinics, modern k-12 schoolrooms, and marijuana production.
Anyone want to add to the list?
longtimelurker wrote:
YouTube - Rage Against The Machine: Testify
Was glad to see Brewer choke in the debate. She will probalby still win the election. And to see Sheriff Joe getting sued. He will probably still keep his job. Lotta hate dominates the public/media discourse down here, IMHO. I'm not very representative, however.
From prior thread, an OT, fwd'ed here due to the sign of the pig arriving just prior to my reply:
" Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Ok Slumdog,
Here's your moment to shine, the dollar gets creamed and 99% of Americans that had money don't anymore.
Your In glod we trust skyrockets to $30k as you planned.
What do you do with it then?
Take a vacation?
The answer is obvious: Convert it into agricultural land company shares, and dealers like Olam and ADM. Buy duplexes and units in good neighborhoods, like apartments in Beverly Hills. The desperate to cling to an image will populate them and their rents will be paid. It's just a holding action, but long enough to consume most of my life. After that? The truth will reveal. "
Dawg, if you mean a lower trade deficit by "less drainage" I fully agree with you, that will take a weaker $ and more energy conservation to cut down on the oil import bill (shifting to more use of Nat Gas as a transport fuel would help a lot there).
ac, with UE at 9.5% hard to think of any part of the economy as overstimulated right now.
This is starting to feel like an alternate universe. What's next? Realtors saying "now is not a good time to buy"? Perhaps "If you can wait a year, everything will be cheaper"
I doubt we're going to see any more one-time stimpack like the housing cred or C4C. There's too much collateral damage and criticism. And the Dems will choke before they cut taxes for small business, after everything they said about the Bush tax cuts. There has been a little talk of a tax credit for hiring, but that's not going to be enough to offset the costs of hiring FT with benefits people. So like Romer said, they basically screwed the pooch because they didn't understand what's going on, and now they have no more bullets.
look at priceline's revenue, profits and stock price. SOMEBODY is using it!
some investor guy wrote:
I think the subtext is,"Cut out the middleman, stick it directly into our pockets."
some investor guy wrote:
I thought that was the main function of inflation... oh wait, not cheaper, just worth less???
km4 wrote:
I agree they blew their chance, but confusing stimulus with QE is unfortunate. They are not the same, and stimulus spending (fiscal policy) certainly gave employment a boost from what it would have otherwise been, which is the relevant comparison. But 1) it was far from enough, 2) the duration was too short, 3) the projects not meaningful and visible enough, and 4) the FED's actions in the midst of delayed and mild financial sector reform have benefited the banks almost exclusively, as Whalen argues.
Richest lawmakers grew wealthier as economy faltered | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News
The rest of the country is still struggling with high unemployment amid a sluggish-at-best economic recovery -- but the wealthiest members of Congress are in high cotton. Indeed, the top 50 wealthiest lawmakers saw their combined net worths increase last year, according to the Hill's annual analysis of financial disclosure documents.
How much longer until we see
in the streets for real 
scone, do you really think the credit should be enough to offset the full cost of hireing someone full time, presumably the person will add to revenues at least some. If the gov't were to provide the full cost of the hire, why not just have the gov't hire people directly? The idea is to leverage public money with private money.
how about not implementing the largest tax hike in history?
Doc Holiday wrote:
Boss swears by Hotwire, sent Ms Sippn (other boss) and baby Sippn on a college tour, worked great.
seems like tax hikes, not cuts, are what are in store.
glimmerman wrote:
How does that help the banks?
Or perhaps 'shitting in tall cotton'
That tax hike was signed into law by Bush after it passed both houses of a GOP controlled congress. The only tax that is being contemplated being raised is for those earnign over $200,000. Obama has already CUT taxes for the vast (apx 95%) of taxpayers. Turn off Fox News
Good move on the part of NAR and NAHB. Time to shut the pols up on this so the market stops thinking about it.
Well this actually is unexpected.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
How about some links? Those were campaign promises, not legislation. I'm not in the top 5%, and my taxes have gone up....
lawyerliz wrote:
only if they don't have something worse in mind
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
I'll turn off the sound. Be specific. Did Bush end it by having a time limit on the tax cuts he implemented?
longtimelurker wrote:
This Keynesian crap was not designed for a balance sheet recession....
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
go back to mis-estimating existing home sales please.
km4 wrote:
Hey, the poorest of the Congress are in high cotton. Retirement - done. Medical - done. six figure income - done.
House loss anecdote for the day.
Cash purchaser for short sale: 55k. Assessed value 69somethingk.
Purchase price in '06 201k.
House is in nice neighborhood, but not quite 800 Sqare feet, which is very small for here.
Value in days of yore--ie, January 2009--107k.
Offer is 26 cents on the dollar or so. What happens where there is no financing to be had.
never used it personally but I have heard good things. just make sure to put in 4 star or better.
Rob Dawg wrote:
All Realtors are local.
Cinco-X wrote:
PolitiFact | Tax cut for 95 percent? The stimulus made it so
where have you been?
Didn't you get the $300 rebate last year, that was a tax cut. While your overall taxes might have gone up. most likley it is state or local taxes that have gone up. About 1/3 of the ARRA was tax cuts. There have been no increases in any taxes at the Federal Level yet, and only the top brackets.
Sippn wrote:
Are we talkin' about John Kerry again?
True average net worth is about $9.0 million with Senators richer.
longtimelurker wrote:
This is BS. As I said, I'm not in the top 5% and my taxes haven't gone down. Just sayin' it doesn't make it so....
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
The credit would have to be big enough to swing the balance in the hiring person's mind. It's something of a gut level calculation right now-- can I get enough value out of this person, plus the credit, to offset the "start up costs" of hiring them? That's all you're doing with the credit, swinging the balance and getting a decision now rather than later. At least, that would be the mentality of a credit, the mental framework that they hope and assume will be the case. Unfortunately, as we have discovered, all it does is pull demand forward a little.
Whereas, hiring directly by the government is called the military. That's always been the flywheel.
Sippn wrote:
Yes, otherwise he could not have rammed it throughusing budget reconcilliaton (remeber all the screaming about using that legislative proceedure when Obama used it for HC reform) and because by putting the 10 year limit on it it held down the long term budget impact for CBO scoring.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
No-
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
That is terribly sad (whether or not one agrees with her politics).
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
That statement says two different and opposing things...
That's a pretty steep drop lawyerliz...
It'd be like a
3/2 1962 home on the tony westside of LA selling for a couple hundred grand, instead of the 800 large it's now commanding~
Sippn wrote:
Yup and AIG's CEO will get his $7M BONUS this year. GS, BOA, Merrill, etc. will have have great paydays and bonus seasons. I read they are considering issuing early bonuses this year.
Everyone else...just fodder until there is no more left to take.
Cinco-X wrote:
Actually, it was: by J M Keynes, when he was trying to deal with the Great Depression, which Irving Fisher correctly identified as caused by debt deflation.
When demand in the private sector collapses, if the govt steps in with direct (and indirect) aid and jobs for the unemployed it will boost demand, and that demand plus (one hopes) at least a little inflation will allow the private sector to repair balance sheets.
In other words, exactly what happened in the 1930s and 1940s.
In all fairness, it might've been E instead?
km4 wrote:
I wish I was corrupt, dishonest and venal enough to run for political office sigh
~splat
lawyerliz wrote:
There was a poster here called "Cash Only Housing" once. Hasn't been around lately. IIRC his point was that the existence of loans per se drove up prices to unreasonable levels. I think there's something in that.
Cinco-X wrote:
maybe you made more money through your great investments and thus paid a higher tax bill?
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
Occurred to me last night talking to ms sippn when her flex spending account disappears in 2011 due to the new health care law, her gross will increase, but her net will decrease, thank you O......
longtimelurker wrote:
IIRC, a major driver in GD1 was excessive inventories. Those are no longer an issue with modern inventory management. It's tragic that you folks will never admit that Keynesianism doesn't work, and will choose to redefine the biggest war of all time as stimulus to suit your goals.....
longtimelurker wrote:
What investments would those be?
should have been a tax on the top brackets is proposed, it has not been implemented, so the part about no new taxes at the Fed'l level stands as of today
True, but it really didn't need to go to 26 cents on the dollar.
Not only has the arm been chopped off, but both legs also.
glimmerman wrote:
There is no tax hike being planned. If you're thinking about the end of a tax cut, you ought to word it properly.
Otherwise it's just rightwing spin.
When was the last time somebody got a HELOC in Fla?
Like 3 years ago?
sportsfan wrote:
Doing nothing is a choice, and it will result in higher taxes...
Cinco-X wrote:
Exactly what tax you pay has gone up?
(The legislation was ARRA. Were you asleep?)
km4 wrote:
N-F-L!
km4 wrote:
Sh!tting in our cotton, certainly...
I've used priceline a couple of times and it saved me some cash. Invariably you end up in a hotel that has something wrong with it (bad location, out of date decor, and so on), but it does save some cash vs. booking the hotel directly and I like to think of it as an adventure.
I think the salaries of the legislators and Prez should go up by a factor of 10 at least and the laws against bribery and corruption and all that be inforced by rack, iron Maiden and thumbscrew. (I am conflicted on the hanging, drawing and quartering.)
Free ads for issues, showing cost and some method for paying for same.
longtimelurker wrote:
Way ahead of me, but I'm still working through the comments.
Cinco-X wrote:
No excess inventories? Tthe current housing inventory??? Not to mention the slightly different category of excess capacity? Or consider that excess inventory can come from either over-production or a collapse in demand?
last, no, I did not "redefine" WWII at all, not in any way. It did effect the economy due to the massive increase in government spending financed by debt. It is a relevant example.
Don't really know.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I've seen ads for them out here in podunk. I guess the Dakotas never got the memo.
Cinco-X wrote:
Hey, you said your taxes WENT UP.
I asked you which one(s)?
lawyerliz wrote:
The property must need a lot to get it back to financing or selling condition.
lawyerliz wrote:
I wonder if there's some legal claim that the whole of Florida has been redlined? Not that you have an Atty Gen who's worth a damn, if you don't mind me saying so.
and while everyone is obsessed with taxes on individuals what remains unaddressed and little talked about are the overseas tax havens by companies and corporations. The GAO reported that 2/3s of those $500M or greater use these. I would wager this likely represents trillions lost tax revenues over the last decade.
+10 internets for you, sir.
sportsfan wrote:
Nothing has gone down, and my sales taxes and property taxes have gone up dramatically, as have fees to use roads and tunnels here in the Bay State...
Take a bow, CR-- You and and a couple others have been very persistent and persuasive in making the case for how little bang for the buck the taxpayer gets on these homebuyer tax credits. And I think that's played a big part in turning the tide against these credits. When the NAR and the NAHB aren't pushing for free government money for themselves, you know that the policy has become pretty unpopular.
Keep your foot poised to stomp this policy out if it crops up again.
sportsfan wrote:
My spin detector uses the well-known duck-spotting method. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc....
longtimelurker wrote:
So, you think they are just waiting until after the elections to ask again?
Winston wrote:
Thank you, my good man, but I cannot accept more than +2 internets, for this was such alarmingly low hanging fruit that I would have injured myself if I had not plucked it.
longtimelurker wrote:
Krugman did today, but I take you r point about housing inventories....
This sounds positive for house prices.
http://www.nationalmortgagenews.com/nmn_features/fannie-holds-line-1020863-1.html?zkPrintable=true
Fannie Holds Line on Servicer Delays of Foreclosures
Thursday, September 2, 2010
By Kate Berry and Jeff Horwitz
Fannie Mae wants out of its defaulted residential mortgage holdings as quickly as possible and is warning loan servicers not to stand in its way.
The government-sponsored enterprise notified servicers Tuesday that it will begin monitoring them to determine why there are delays in moving delinquent loans into foreclosure. If servicers cannot properly account for the holdups, it will perform on-site reviews and assess fees to give servicers "a financial incentive to comply with Fannie Mae policies and improve the overall quality of their performance."
All year, the so-called shadow inventory of home loans that are delinquent but not yet in foreclosure has been growing. The buildup has been widely interpreted as a sign that banks and servicers are intentionally delaying foreclosures, in part to avoid taking losses on loans that they hold.
About 2.9 million homes have been repossessed by banks or are in the foreclosure process, according to Lender Processing Services. But 4.5 million borrowers are at least 30 days delinquent on their mortgage.
With the economic recovery stalled and housing prices expected to fall further, Fannie appears to be making the first move.
"This is a shot across the bow that servicers have to start paying attention," said Kevin Kanouff, a founder of Statebridge Co., a Denver special servicer. "Now they're going to put their feet to the fire and expect to move these loans along as opposed to throwing them in a program and just collecting the fees."
Nope, nope, nope. This guy buys with the owners still in the property. It may need some painting or updating, but none of the property is trashed and he has the right to inspect and has usually inspected by the time I get the contract.
I suspect we are in overshoot. I am tempted to buy, tired of waiting for any aspect of sanity to return to stock mkt.
Cinco-X wrote:
So you want a new tax cut?
I gather you're not concerned about the deficit or the debt?
some investor guy wrote:
sportsfan wrote:
See:
Comment by Cinco-X from thread 'Realtors, Builders oppose another Housing Tax Credit'
Liz, forget my last comments, that is the market value today. There are markets that have dropped that far. I got a cuz off the west coast with a similar situation.
Cinco-X wrote:
no, he did not.
Supposedly you can get a loan north of Palm Beach County in certain select places. And once in a while they let a loan go through, but yes, I have mentioned that I think all of South Florida has been redlined.
sportsfan wrote:
I didn't ask for one. I just think that the line about 95% of people getting a tax cut is bogus....
longtimelurker wrote:
Yes; he did, and I linked the article.
glimmerman wrote:
very interesting.
Cinco-X wrote:
Your state and local taxes have gone up and you blame Obama for that?
You are a perfect example of a rightwingradical who pretends to be a conservative.
(BTW, Obama cut you taxes. Look at your 1040 and instructions.)
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Its current value is more than that; try near $1MM. It's the location and the lot size, and whether in the gay ole West Hollywood or in West LA.
Sippn wrote:
Not to mention premiums have already gone up due to the health care law. Not a tax increase, of course....
lawyerliz,
How deep is the demand for a home @ 26 cents on the dollar off of it's high price?
and while I'm ranting...then I'll shut up and go away...since companies and corporations were ruled as equal as individuals in their ability to contribute to political campaigns, then I would also suggest they be treated equally by the law in taxation and enforcement. I know, not happening, ever. Too many pockets are lined of people who matter. The honest schmucks, many of whom find themselves abruptly poor, obviously don't matter.
Well he did make a fuss about possible phoney assignments of mtg and seize some files from the big foreclosure atty mills; I have to give him that. Alex Sink is fine.
sportsfan wrote:
Nothing has gone down; you're just another left wing shill from the DailyKOS- C'ya
Nothing has gone down, and my sales taxes and property taxes have gone up dramatically, as have fees to use roads and tunnels here in the Bay State...
Sales and property taxes are levied by states and localities, not by the Fed'l gov't and thus are not at all due to Obama. In fact, he has been trying to steer some Fed'l money to the states and localities to help prevent those tax increases, but has been blocked by the GOP for the most part (a very small bill did eventually make it through, mostly aimed at preventing layoffs of teachers/prevent the increases in property taxes that would have been needed to keep them without the Fed'l help).
I saw a NAR commercial last night on TV. Almost threw up my ice cream.
The line: In these troubling times call on us. We're the professionals.
Hunkering down for the Storm?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
We are moving from one of those in a nicer area of the Valley. They asked well over $800k at Peak Foolishness. We're renters, but it's going on the market between $550 and 600k. Might sell for $525, if they act soon. Otherwise, under $500.
Actually a nice house, recently redone. Install a new school district and it would be worth some serious cash. Why can't you just pick one of those up at Costco? Go one mile west to Calabasas and it would sell for $700k within a week.
glimmerman wrote:
Quack, quack, waddle waddle.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
This was a retort to 95% of people's taxes have gone down. I say it's BS...
Cinco-x, you're a liar.
Keep lying to try to get Republicans elected.
Keep lying, you SOB.
The world knows you're a liar.
Cinco-X wrote:
Here is the relevant passage:
The immediate cause of the depression’s end was, of course, a very large fiscal stimulus, also known as World War II. But why didn’t the US slide back into depression when the war was over? Many people thought it would; the decline of Montgomery Ward had a lot to do with Sewell Avery’s policy of refusing to expand and hoarding cash in preparation for the return of depression.
Why, then, didn’t depression return? The best answer I’ve come up with is that the depression was, at least in part, a Koo-type balance sheet slump — and the private sector emerged from World War II with much-improved balance sheets.
It was WWII. It was a war. He goes on to focus mainly on what happened when the war ended. Not to mention that he analyzes the depression as a balance sheet slump.
What is your problem with this?
Krugman is not saying that the cause or goal of WWII was economic stimulus. Really.
lawyerliz wrote:
Not too worried. The water here is too cold to support the kind of storms you folks get...
lawyerliz wrote:
Would it be possible for an Atty Gen to bring a Federal court case on this? I mean, construct a legal argument that such and such list of banks has conspired to redline a large geographic area? I've never heard of such a case, but I can't see why not.
longtimelurker wrote:
Yes, he is....
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
You got it. De facto plutocracy, which will become institutionalized. That's why we're going to collapse. An educated public isn't enough. End the lobbyist system, and end central banking, or we're never coming back.
Hard to say; most buying that I see are investors. If they won't accept my guy's low price, he just moves on to the next one. Remember this is short sales.
that is 95% of peoples FEDERAL taxes have gone down. Those are the taxes that Obama has influence over
No, he's really not. He's saying that the spending leading up to WWII provided an economic stimulus. He says nothing about what people intended. You are attributing to Krugman a confusion between cause and effect that I see no evidence of in his writings.
When I lived in the City of Angles, a number of locales in the SFV that were formerly parts of most uncool Van Nuys or Panorama City, splintered off to become their own fiefdoms, Valley Village, and a few others...
...It was such an LA move
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
I don't believe that have gone down.
lawyerliz wrote:
Liz, what about the credit unions? And the benevolent societies (if there are any left)? Are they lending at all?
Now is that really necessary? Sigh. Testosterone.
I can't believe I stopped doing real work to read this thread.
I just can't believe the level of ignorance on display here.
Think I'll go back to real work.
Winston wrote:
Thanks. I was rendered speechless.
You have a vivid imagination sir.
One might say the imagination of a crazy person.
I return yet another internet to you in appreciation.
hahahah. Gulf stream.
Oh, it's different there. . .But good luck!
Winston wrote:
Let's assume you're correct, which you're not. It's then fair to say that Keynesian economics had no beneficial effect on GD1, and WW2 is what pulled us out, and not the bogus theories of John Maynard Keynes. Do you accept that? I need to leave shortly..
longtimelurker wrote:
Above my pay scale!!!
Are South Floridians a minority or something?
Cinco-X wrote:
I cannot recommend this free online book enough. I think it will be a good primer for the upcoming election.
The Authoritarians
So, slummy...... since I got
Have you ever seen a futures market gap open down?
Just curious.....
Nothing quite like righty-tighty revisionist history lessons...
lawyerliz wrote:
My sister who owns in Chatham Mass just texted that is never a good thing when the Weather Channel broadcasts from your neighborhood.
If you're in a wealthy area that has a good shopping district then, in California at least, it pays off to form a new city because you don't have to support all those nasty poor people. In fact, I'm surprised that is hasn't been tried in reverse, where a wealthy city splits out a small ghetto to free themselves of the responsibility of paying the ghetto's bills.
Habitat for Humanity is now the 4th biggest builder in ummm, S. Fla? Dade?
I've suggested credit unions, but have got no response of any success.
Rob Dawg wrote:
You know it's bad if Anderson Cooper shows up.
*instead of the 800 large *
instead of the 800 large CA-IOUs
Christopher Ketcham: The Rise of a Green Tea Party
The most radical antiwar candidate in the US is not Dennis Kucinich or Rand or Ron Paul or any of the usual suspects. It’s a 42-year-old Vermonter named Dennis Steele, who is running for governor of his state as an open secessionist. From what I can tell, Steele is just an average dude. He wears Carhartts and a baseball cap and drives a pickup truck and lives with his wife and two kids in a little Vermont village called Kirby (pop. 500), off in the wild hills of Vermont’s Northeast Kingdom. On occasion, he feeds his family by hunting deer and butchering the meat himself. He served three years in the US Army – working for “the Empire,” as he puts it – and he tells me his main reason for running is that he doesn’t want his kids serving in the Army. Or any other branch of the Empire. He wants the Empire to drop dead. And he thinks the best way to start that process is by getting Vermont to secede from the union. Destroy the empire by undermining it from within. That’s the goal.
Yep the hub's tv lightining thing got postponed for a week at least from the weather channel.
Hub sez Gaston is falling apart.
Cinco-X wrote:
I appreciate the links that you post. But I will not engage with you again.
sm_landlord wrote:
Well, youse guys always kvetch that Keynesian policy doesn't work because gov't. doesn't do the saving in good times to fund the stimulus in bad times. Well, those tax cuts were passed with a time limit in a nod to that idea. Now you want to play ducks with it. Sour grapes.
lawyerliz wrote:
I'm not sure it matters. IIRC, the essence of redlining is geographic. The tiny amount of case law I remember always emphasized the geographic angle, not the minority angle per se, because the geographic thing is easily quantifiable, hence provable. You would essentially be saying that all Floridians, as a class, have been discriminated against because they reside inside the redlined area. I think you could construct an argument around that.
HELOC - in FL a few days ago
Tiger Woods takes out mortgage on Jupiter Island property to pay for divorce settlement
Tiger Woods takes out mortgage on Jupiter Island property to pay for divorce settlement » TCPalm.com
lawyerliz wrote:
Credit unions are what banks were in days of yore. They don't do risk. They expect 3% over 'flation no matter what. They aren't going to lend on real estate because they have millions of datums that prove it doesn't pay just now.
Palin/Brewer anyone?
sm_landlord wrote:
Unless you are a trendy alternative nightclub in WeHo. CaChing!
Can you say Dream Team, as in nightmare?
Obama switching teams now a GOP President ?
"Among the options are a temporary payroll tax holiday and a permanent extension of the research and development tax credit, say people familiar with the talks who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to describe private deliberations"
Oh, The weather channel did broadcast from the parking lot at my business once which was a circus all day and took cover in by building after the wind wrapped their truck around a tree, but we all had to vacate when the roof came off and the place flooded within minutes.
NGBROI wrote:
No offense personally but just what does the "Palin" card ever contribute to Calculated Risk?
Bubblisimo Gerkinov wrote:
An authoritarian federal government is a bad enough example of boys behaving badly; can you imagine the horrors and schemes that would be possible for an authoritarian global government?
I would say that the effect of the spending for WWII was what Keynes would have expected. I would also say that Roosevelt's prior attempts to end the GD were too timid because it's hard to mobilize those kind of resources without a war. As for beneficial effects of fiscal stimulus, I would say that at the very least the CCC and the other alphabet soup policies probably lessened the severity of the depression and prevented political unrest, which is very valuable.
The problem with a stimulus that's too timid is that it is far less efficient than one of sufficient size because it gets you back to a properly functioning economy more quickly, avoiding all that lost tax revenue.
Doc Holiday wrote:
Yes. Stayed at the Hyatt Regency Embarcadero in San Francisco, very nice room, for $100 a night. Stayed in a reasonably nice resort in Orlando for $90/night. If you have flexibility, and you're staying in an area with many hotels, it's the only way to go. I use this site to get a sense of current bidding levels and the hotels that are participating: BiddingForTravel.com - Message Board - Yuku
Dawg +1
bearly wrote:
He was already there on Health Care Reform, which closely resembles Romney's policy in Massachusetts and stemmed from Bob Doles plan from the 1990s.
Winston wrote:
Ah, yes, the Good City / Bad City tactic...
Who else has the balls to ask and receive a $54.5 million HELOC on an unfinished home?
Obama was never a progressive. I don't understand why some people still don't see this.
glimmerman wrote:
A real life "Man Against Wild" hunter-gatherer existence then. We all get live reality TV lives. Cool!
bearly wrote:
Why a temporary payroll tax holiday ? Why not replace it with tariffs or a national sales tax ? Too afraid of change ?
Winston most folks have trouble w/ dangling modifiers
Is this a head fake?
Convince the "wait and see" crowd all riled up from the last week's confusion that this is as good as it gets.
Cinco-X wrote:
Obama raised your sales and property taxes, and fees to use roads and tunnels. Too funny!
Democrats and corrupt Republicans are terrified of Palin, don't know why, she is so dumb. I myself want someone hawt.
Winston wrote:
People think Bush II is a conservative. MSM effect?
One billion dollar to one golf player...yeah, sure you are gonna do another "manhattan project"...evil GERMAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Ain't gonna happen with the crew you got there, Yank boys.
Every time local government finances get dicey in California (about once per decade since prop-13) the cities start to act more and more like banks.
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Not even Ron Paul? I thought he wanted to keep it forever.
But we're missing "The Assassin" Jack Tatum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Great player
Rob Dawg wrote:
It certainly helps contribute to the Dems, she's their best fundraiser.
Mad cow disease and cattle futures. Lock limit down for day after day. "what do you mean I can't sell?"
I need to start thinking shorter thoughts or taking time to proofread.
she's their best fundraiser
she's their best well dressed fundraiser
The grey-mare opened down limit for like 4 days in the early 80's, took down a bunch of people...
That's true. Clinton was a better conservative than Bush II.
I think it could be a political concession. Congress probably has said unequivocally that there will be no more free money. NAR then goes on the record saying that they really didn't want it anyway.
Fox and the Grapes
*I need to start thinking shorter thoughts *
Palin is that you? Palin?
scone wrote:
Could be as simple as the commission on a loan for a 35K purchase doesn't justify the time - except for Tony, but Tony charges bigger points.
Winston wrote:
I don't think there's a mechanism for getting rid of a neighborhood you don't want. For one thing, you'd at least have to find someone willing to take it. Disincorpating the entire town and trying to form a new one from the ashes might be one approach. Although if you do that, the properties inside the old city limits still are liable for any debts incurred by the old city. They're finding that out in Half Moon Bay, which is probably going down because of a massive lawsuit settlement they can't pay back.
Piedmont arguably split off the rest of Oakland from its noble self; very rare you have a small city completely surrounded by a larger one. It is remembered by all who live around there that Piedmont thought itself too good for Oakland. Back in the day, anyway, when there a power failure affected all of Oakland, Piedmont's power always came back last. The power grid techs made sure of that.
She needs to start thinking longer thoughts.
She needs to start thinking longer thoughts.
Longer thoughts won't fit on the palm of her hand.
bearly wrote:
that would impress me
She needs to start thinking longer thoughts
She needs to start thinking
Barley wrote:
Stick head in sand......
When we came down here in 1972 we bought in a very small house (22.5k) completely surrounded by the City of South Miami, but the province of unincorporated Miami-Dade. During GD I South Miami didn't want it anymore. Don't know how they got rid of it. If you needed the police/fire, was always a fight as to who should come out. It was too rich to generate it's own crime and far too poor to attract outside crime, so this wasn't much of a problem. Those houses sold at peak for more than 250k; now I suppose they are worth what I sold for in '81, 50k. well, maybe a little bit more.
I'm pretty sure she a word or 2 with more than one syllable written on her palm, should we go to the tape?
http://liberalvalues.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/cribnotes.jpg
Mike in Long Island wrote:
Exactly. If you're long a future, and you think "I can't possibly lose with my stop", you're in for a rude shock.
lawyerliz wrote:
Have you been to places like Hampton Beach? The water is so cold it's painful. I believe that the water off Nova Scotia and Labrador is warmer than ours. In any event, they predict a Cat2 in our area, and I've yet to see one worse than that. And as I mentioned a few days ago, the No Name Storm and other Nor'easters have been worse at least for the coast.
Sippn wrote:
That's true. If the banks could prove it's as simple as that, it would be hard to push "compelling interest." Which brings you back to forcing the banks to lend via negative interest on the reserves. The trouble with that is, it won't help help the devastated areas enough, because the jobs aren't there, but it might overstimulate the areas that are more viable, causing a bit of local inflation.
In fact that's a danger I see going forward, how do you help Florida and Arizona without overstimulating North Dakota or New Hampshire?
Rob Dawg wrote:
I'm way away from there, but I was speaking with a friend who's schedule to attend a wedding at 5:00PM tomorrow in Chatham. Good luck to all of them...
Bob Dobbs wrote:
The technicians... the spanners in the works...
The thing is, these areas I talk of are just as hanky as the neighborhood around them, nothing changed except the name.
Money is power. The oldest child is getting 400k for a season of Dancing With The Stars. She still has the Palin name, Money Is Power.
lawyerliz wrote:
Why are they building?
White House considering major tax breaks for businesses, sources say
Rob Dawg wrote:
And who is Brewer?
MaryAnn wrote:
Largely, this is the world that testosterone built. Would estrogen have done better?
Rehabbing is too expensive, or so they say.
When Rush Limbaugh inked a $400 million contract a year or 2 ago, it was to impress his audience, who are easily led down the primrose path, by showing his 'worth'.
Same deal with the Palinites, famous for being famous.
Be nice to find out.
Winston wrote:
Winston,
You can't have it both ways. Sorry-
We are Mr. and Mrs. Debt Deflation. We owe damn near nothing.
lawyerliz wrote:
We may yet have that chance...
Winston wrote:
He's a politician just like our last President, but with slightly less baggage and much better speaking skills....
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
A world run by men = violent brutality. A world run by women = coercive thought control. Worst case analysis, of course.
JD, its all entertainment or we would not be discussing them here. Polititions are frustrated souls that wanted to be actors.
Winston wrote:
And Bush 1 for that matter, but only after '94. He was very pragmatic....
scone wrote:
Two great authoritarian tastes that will taste great together!
I personally prefer a competent conservative with some depth. Who was the last one, FDR?
Not with Palin.
and it's ok to be ugly, unless your are a female politica.
lawyerliz wrote:
I sure hope not. I wasn't designing the rhetorical idea for failure.
He's a politician just like our last President, but with slightly less baggage and much better speaking skills,
thinks he knows everything, and has absolutely no clue what he doesn't know or understand.
What I would imagine would be adjusting the city limits to leave the ghetto in the original city and leaving the good parts unincorporated (or transfering them to a neighboring town). The second move would be for the good parts of the city to incorporate to form a new city. As I understand it, you would need majority approval of the voters IN THE GOOD PARTS OF THE CITY as well as a city council willing to propose such a thing. You would also need approval from your local LAFCO, which might be hard to get. That being said, where there's a will and money on the table, there's a way.
An example of this would be for Oakland (let's keep them as an example) to transfer everything except West Oakland to Piedmont or to a newly formed city (let's call it Claremont). Thus Oakland would retain the Ghetto while all the viable parts of Oakland would be renamed Claremont.
It's not as if there are any other white elephants waiting in the wings of either gender, and besides so many of the males have turned out to be poofters, unelectable.
lawyerliz wrote:
No, being homely takes off major coolness points, speaking from experience.
Thus Oakland would retain the Ghetto while all the viable parts of Oakland would be renamed Claremont.
You could rename Oakland "Soweto."
this is your response to Dirk's comment ("Obama has already CUT taxes for the vast (apx 95%) of taxpayers.")? Were you not able to comprehend that the statement was about federal taxes?
pavel.chichikov wrote:
Kennedy was much more conservative than FDR (but not Ronnie). Tough on defense, lowered taxes when they actually needed to be lowered, so no wonder they knocked him off. BTW, no fan of the Kennedy's here, but he was a much better choice at the time than Nixon (a liberal if there ever was one), as we sound out 12 years later....
I'll leave that to the new city council.
If you want to laugh until you cry, here is a live webcam from a "hurricane chaser". I watched his broadcast when Alex hit Mexico. He tried to cross into Mexico and got turned back by the Federales that time, he also managed to get his jeep stuck on the beach on the US side as the surge was coming in. The guy is a nut. Last time he had on a tinfoil outfit...
THE XTREME WEATHER CAM
He's at the NC coast this time...I'm going to
and 
and watch him. Hopefully he won't finally be nominated for a Darwin award.
Basel Too wrote:
I don't believe it.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
I work in an organization almost entirely managed by women; it's a traditional career woman's ghetto, a marketing organization. Whether it's because of the nature of the organization or something else, it's an institution where making the right people look foolish -- because they're wrong -- will earn you eternal enmity. Hidden behind polite smiles. You will face misfortune after misfortune and never be able to prove why, or perhaps even who.
In single-sex groups, men tend toward the brutal, women tend toward the vicious. The best organizations give equal voice to both; somehow, they balance out each other's worst qualities.
lawyerliz wrote:
I have considered starting a charity which takes buildings down and makes parks.
Ahhh, equality.
We will all be equally poor soon.
some investor guy wrote:
Habitat for
Doc Holiday wrote:
If you're going to use Priceline, you need to study these forums thoroughly first:
Priceline and Hotwire Forum
lawyerliz wrote:
And equally powerless against the power of global capital...
Winston wrote:
"In fact, I'm surprised that is hasn't been tried in reverse, where a wealthy city splits out a small ghetto to free themselves of the responsibility of paying the ghetto's bills. "
Well the reverse of your hypothetical reverse has happened. A wealthy enclave of Atlanta split itself off so it didn't have to pay for the services provided to the poor of Atlanta.
The other evolution was the privatization of all services except public safety from the beginning of the city charter in 2005:
"City services are performed in a public-private partnership. Most services are being handled by the engineering and operations firm CH2M HILL OMI, although public safety is not outsourced. Sandy Springs, at first glance, appears to be run just like other similarly-sized cities, with a council-manager form of government. However, it is the first city in the nation to outsource services to such a great extent to a private sector company."
Sandy Springs, Georgia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MaryAnn wrote:
I can't find the New Gilligan's Island series in my Cable TV directory. Sounds cool. Did they interview the Professor too?
then go ahead and state that, but don't portray yourself as an idiot by bringing state and local tax issues into a thread conversation on federal taxes.
You will face misfortune after misfortune and never be able to prove why, or perhaps even who.
It's the way human beings organize themselves, even in monasteries. It's the way we are. Generosity and charity are so well-prized because they're exceptions.
Just wait a bit and they will rot.
Just because I haven't said it today:
And besides Citi must be destroyed.
(They were the ones wth the 95k balloon after 40 years mentioned last thread)
slade smith wrote:
I think the finally got it through their thick skulls, that the inventory overhang is not helping anyone except the TBTF banks. NAR's Realtors income is a function of (house price) X (number of transactions), and as sales approach zero, so does their income, regardless of the value of the houses. They finally did the math, and realized that an active housing market, is far more profitable for them, than a dead one, even if housing prices fall to 2.5 to 3.5 incomes.
MaryAnn wrote:
If you think someone is really dumb, but they are successful, look deeper. Ask why?
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Can you imagine what a women's prison must be like? Criminey Christmas.
headless in Arizona
it got worse for Brewer after the debate:
Jan Brewer Speechless On Headless Bodies (VIDEO) | TPMDC
pavel.chichikov wrote:
Evolutionary success is hard to defeat... by its very nature, actually.
Can someone tell me about brewer, so I don't have to watch it myself and get ashamed I am a human being, and summarize in 25 words or less.
lawyerliz wrote:
You could trade that house you mentioned for a week of rehab at Promises in Malibu.
Cinco-X wrote:
Me neither. I think that 95% of taxpayers are in the 5% that didn't get cuts!
Just a week?
Basel Too wrote:
The dems have not lowered taxes for 95% percent of US citizens, and if nothing is done about the Bush tax cuts, some folks taxes will go up, and there are taxes buried in the health care bill as well. And then there are taxes in the financial reform bill which, while they are directly levied on the average citizen, will ultimately be paid by them. You and your friends are the idiots. C;ya-
Cinco-X wrote:
People give them money to oversupply your market
longtimelurker
I am sure if simple folk like me said this and it was not true....I would be arrested and charged w/ something
About 5 years ago about this time I was driving south on the 99 coming back from Burning Man, when I spotted a sign that proclaimed "Chowchilla-A Unique Way Of Life", and about 1/2 a mile further down the road, a much smaller sign simply said "Central California Women's Facility-next exit"
Funny that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_California_Women's_Facility
lawyerliz wrote:
Deluxe rehab, and someone has to pay for all of the TV commercials.
bearly wrote:
They went around claiming they were going to do it, but then they found that with the economic crisis, they couldn't afford to do so, so instead they went around repeating the lie to convince everyone it already happened, and some morons are all too willing to believe and promote it...
lawyerliz wrote:
she claimed to have fixed every problem in the state and tripped over her own tongue while saying this worse than a 3rd grader who had not done her homework, then got called out on her assertions that illegal immigrants had been decapitating people, refused to answer, and got cornered by the press afterward with TV cameras rolling.
I cannot convey the full impact. I think she made Palin's interviews with Gibson and Couric look like stellar performances. but I don't know how Arizonians see it.
"Obama has already CUT taxes for the vast (apx 95%) of taxpayers."
I don't believe it.
I wasn't sure either. Here is Wiki's take on the ARRA of 2009. Just scroll down the provisions of the act to "taxes"
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Barley wrote:
Like what?
lawyerliz wrote:
OK. It checked. $1000 per day, $30k per month. Promises, Promises. - Entrepreneur.com
picosec wrote:
My favorite recent commercial is one for Chase. They've been on a media blitz here in So Cal.
"Do you hear that sound?
That's the sound of the economy recovering."
pavel.chichikov wrote:
In many male-dominated organizations I've been in, there's little pretense -- you're in, but you, over there, are out. He's better, you're not. None of it need be true, but the intent is clear. I preferred working in high tech, where the atmosphere could be brutal but honesty still had some cachet -- because you can't lie a new server into performing well. It will or it won't.
In woman-dominated organizations, it's more like jiu-jitsu. They come at you from an angle, indirectly. You must be part of the pecking order, and if it's a low spot you must be happy with it. If you're not, you will be disapproved of and, eventually, vanish.
Gosh, I guess my nursing home rehab facility was cheap. For the leg. And the muscles I grew must have been phony.
Jan Brewer is a favorite of the Tea Partiers, but isn't their creation. She claimed that illegal immigrants were beheading people in the desert and when called on it claimed that the problem was that her opponent was in bed with the Unions whom she likened to terrorists.
Nope, I am the accountant that stays in her office all day, and employee's kept updating me on the storm. When it hit the building I climbed under my desk and within minutes my office was flooded with water.
Yeh, KDFC plays that all the time. It totally harshes my classical music mellow. Even worse than the Chevron PR they spout over and over. Really painful stuff.
longtimelurker wrote:
Mind altering substances, and a xenomorph, may be involved.
Oxtail wrote:
* $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
* $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
* $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
* $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
* $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
* $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
* $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
* $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
* $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
BUT MY TOLL FARE AND 911 FEE WENT UP, AND I'M NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 5%!!!!
Aryzonans are so used to hack politicans, that it's probably just water on a duck's back.
Ok, that's logical.
Cinco-X dont know but I dont think making false, misleading statements is entirely okay.
Maybe the AZ tourist board should be looking into this.
Why were you at work when a hurricane was coming? I'm dedicated and dependable but you can bet I am not risking life and limb so someone can get a drink if a hurricane is heading my way.
traderwalt wrote:
I can't find the percentage of taxpayers that received a cut...
That was during the debate. Her handling of questions after the debate was really, really funny. She makes Palin look polished.
I bet bearly voted for her
Barley wrote:
Are you kidding? Sometimes I think that the main achievement of the 1st Amendment is that it saves us from locking up 99% of the population, which would be like a snake eating its tail.
Gee, thanks we were scheduling new sliding glass doors and will make sure we do it this year!
AND I'M NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 5%
Basel Too - If you were they would be paying you use the toll roads and give you a BatLine for 911
Barley wrote:
Is this about the governor's race in AZ?
Cinco-X wrote:
At this rate, you will be talking to yourself. Get a grip man.
Cinco-X wrote:
Don't know if it's because of the health care bill but our company's health insurance costs as of this month have gone up 30%. The insurance rep blames ObamaCare, but it's a given that he's going to say that. We've been cutting employees since about April 2008 to control costs. And a few more just went out the door in one batch a couple of weeks ago and I don't think that's a coincidence. We can't pass on costs to customers because they're cutting too.
OT:
Well I didn't get my kayak to roll back over upright but I did get more than a few refreshing swims in during rolling practice.
I am getting better at floundering....
CK, Tornadoes....But we did get lots of wind and rain 400 miles in from Katrina.
Vic wrote:
But Obama raised his state sales taxes. Dude is way out there!
Well, that is my kinda woman
So smiling when my table goes awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 