Neo: A black cat went past us, and then another that looked just like it.
Trinity: How much like it? Was it the same cat?
Neo: It might have been. I'm not sure.
Morpheus: Switch! Apoc!
Neo: What is it?
Trinity: A déjà vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.
Economist: Relax, that is what cats do according to my virtually proven models.

When I see that word 'recovery' I think of a debt rehab center, where the patients sneak out when nobody's looking and go to the mall to buy a bunch of stuff they don't need, a relapse.

Yearning to Learn wrote:

the only people surprised by these numbers are those that are supposedly most in the know about economics and finance.

I just posted a music recommendation: Let's Dance, Jake Shimabukuro

YTL wrote: "the only people surprised by these numbers are those that are supposedly most in the know about economics and finance."

I think black dog was right in saying the market has to drop significantly before TPTB will move toward fiscal stimulus. Bernanke's warning will just be ignored.

Durable goods -1%.

Mortgage purchase applications +2%.

Obviously they were all out buying houses.

Putsch yourself in the Unabankers shoes, er sole, if the heat's too hot on them, do they all split for Argentina?

I think black dog was right in saying the market has to drop significantly before TPTB will move toward fiscal stimulus. Bernanke's warning will just be ignored.

however the current party in power does not want the market to drop so close to the elections. thus they will work in concert to keep the equities markets up.

Obviously, this does little to nothing for the economy, but at least they can SAY "the Dow is up 80% from it's low replenishing America's savings!"
besides, most of their wealth isn't tied up in the general economy, it's tied up in their stocks and also in their corporate donations.

my guess: no further big stress in equities until after the election. Then we'll see problems again, especially if Republicans win. not because Republicans are good for the market, but because this will balance and gridlock government preventing them from intervening in and propping up the markets.

that's just a wild guess though. who can say what will happen in the markets these days since it's all just computers trading with computers.

and college tuition rates UP.

Thinking about that, rising tuition rates would seem to augment the banking sector. When tuition/housing rates rise, so do student loan amounts. Esp. now without MEW to fund them.

So in a circular way, this is all same ol' same ol'. Bailing out the banks. With non-sloughable loans. Hmm.

edit: And really, really thinking about this, it's a brilliant move, because it moves the consumer from dischargeable loans in bk to non-dischargeable. A banker's dream.

Outsider wrote:

So in a circular way, this is all same ol' same ol'. Bailing out the banks. With non-sloughable loans. Hmm.

you beat me to it. student debt is of course non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

that gives me a great idea. we should simply make ALL debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
then we can reduce our lending standards again, since the loan will be nondischargeable.
no more defaults!
all loans can go back to NINJA standards

even better, if we could somehow figure out a way to use the markets to affect food prices, and then we could force people to pay for their food using loans nondischargeable in bankruptcy.

yay!

if I thought of it I"m sure our leaders have thought of it.

Do we need a new icon? Whose the icon person?
Economist's View: A Triple Dip?

A Triple Dip?

Director's Blog » Blog Archive » Federal Debt and the Risk of a Financial Crisis

Over the past few years, U.S. government debt held by the public has grown rapidly. According to CBO’s projections, federal debt held by the public will stand at 62 percent of GDP at the end of fiscal year 2010, having risen from 36 percent at the end of fiscal year 2007, just before the recession began. In only one other period in U.S. history—during and shortly after World War II—has that figure exceeded 50 percent.

Okay, that's nearly doubling the national debt in 3 short years; From the Congressional Budget Office, not some blog.....

Jobs for rifted soldiers-mercenaries employed by the elite for protection and cough whatever else might prove to be necessary.

who can say what will happen in the markets these days since it's all just computers trading with computers.

I was going to take exception, but I can't argue with the gravity of your last point.

YTL - Keep going, keep going.

Because once all debt is non-dischargeable, and we necessitate debt for everyday living, then voila, we have ourselves some household servants! Debt servitude, here we come.

edit: ooh! We crossed posts again. Obviously this is real.

way over my pay grade. no comment.

LoserBeachBum wrote:

For more, the ambassador continues talking about domestic issues that locals have no interest or do not even want to listen. That was not the case during Cold War.

untrue. it was very clearly the case during the cold war, but mostly countries that were not... uh... white.

one of my FAVORITE books of all time is called "The Ugly American". it was written in the 1950's I think and is a great read. It is quick to read, it is fun to read, and it is very informative.
it is also very BALANCED about the great things that America has done with foreign policy and the terrible errors as well.

I can't recommend the book highly enough.

Xinco,

pssssssst.

don't be consorting with numbers of Arabic like that on here, they're already onto us and you'll just draw attention from the department of Home & Land Price Security.

Alan Blinder and Alan Greenspan were major contributors to the NWO in its early stages. Blinder was a vice-president of the federal reserve board of governors and a member of Bill Clinton's cabinet of economic advisors. He was already projecting massive US jobs outsourced to China and India thru 2015 in the late 1990's and is another traitor who doesn't give a damn about his country. It's time to audit the fed which is nothing more than a private bank looking after its best interests and not that of we the people of the US

t r orwell wrote:

"another traitor who doesn't give a damn about his country"

How about supplying us with the approved list of Republican heros so we can write poems about them and sing them praise?

The federal reserve is an equal opportunity political party employer.

I'm curious what happens if America goes off it's psych meds

Might be hard to distinguish between the meth-odd actors & psych-tweakers?

I read something about shortages of various medicine occurring presently, and just like all the other corp'ses, Big Pharma's model was built on an ever-increasing scale, and they're feeling the pinch like everybody else.

will fix this economy. He has all the right

JD wrote:
Big Pharma's model was built on an ever-increasing scale,

Isn't this true for most large corporations? Grow, grow, grow.

Grow, gro, gr, gurgle

Isn't this true for most large corporations? Grow, grow, grow.

sorry, had to do it:

YouTube - Feed Me (Git It) - Little Shop of Horrors 

“Businesses are, in general, still investing,” said Russell Price, a senior economist at Ameriprise Financial Inc. in Detroit, who projected a decline in durable goods orders excluding transportation. “If they want to compete, they have to invest. The recovery is continuing.”

I am going to get my news from Bloomberg. You people are too doomish

N-N,

I've been thinking about advertising, and I wish we had somebody on the inside that would let us know what's going on?

I'm fascinated to watch it go through it's debt throes, as it was part and parcel what turned us from citizens into consumers.

Russell Price, a senior economist at Ameriprise Financial Inc. in Detroit

isn't that an oxymoron?

Doris "Tanta" Dungey

I'm sure he doesn't understand this:

Environment, Power, and Society for the Twenty-First Century

Advertising is what marginally creative types drifted into, as they realized thy had nothing to say.

Durable Goods orders "saved and or created"...
B.O. and JounOlist regime.

Deja vu . . . or a glitch in the matrix:

Calculated Risk: In Memoriam: Doris "Tanta" Dungey

Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank caused a scene when he demanded a $1 senior discount on his ferry fare to Fire Island's popular gay haunt, The Pines, last Friday. Frank was turned down by ticket clerks at the dock in Sayville because he didn't have the required Suffolk County Senior Citizens ID. A witness reports, "Frank made such a drama over the senior rate that I contemplated offering him the dollar to cool down the situation." Frank made news last year when he was spotted looking uncomfortable around a bevy of topless, well-built men at the Pines Annual Ascension Beach Party. Frank's spokesperson confirmed to Page Six that his partner, James Ready, asked the ticket office for a regular ticket for himself and a senior ticket for Frank, "but was turned down because Frank didn't have a resident ID."

It should be noted that this cheapskate in personal life has never seen a Congressional spending bill he hasn't liked as long as he could force taxpayers to pay for it.

Barney Frank, James Ready - NYPOST.com

amiramr0 wrote:

Yearning to Learn wrote:

the only people surprised by these numbers are those that are supposedly most in the know about economics and finance.

That is because most of those experts are really just market cheerleaders.

Austerity For The People!!!!!!!

King’s Daughters Hospital Reduces Full Time Staff by Over 200 - Huntington News Network

i assume someone posted this yesterday

Goldman Gets Around Volcker Rule

MiTurn wrote:

Are the big pharmo companies too big to fail?

Actually, TBTF is a problem with companies like banks, where their failure would (presumably) devastate the rest of the economy. Big pharma failures probably would not devastate the economy, but with their current business model, it's hard to imaging them failing.....

that are supposedly most in the know about economics and finance.
Why were resources expunged from neo-classical economics? | Martin Wolf's Exchange | FT.com

wally wrote:

We've pretty much got everything we need right now.

And we are busy selling stuff to each other on Craig's List and EBay.

Massive asteroid might hit Earth in 2182, warn scientists | Mail Online

Bill Gross: Deleveraging Will Super-Painful Because We're In Deep Demographic "Doo-Doo"

Are HOA Foreclosures A Necessary Tool Or An Extortion Racket?

What happens if double dip doesn't happen, instead we muddle through into a drunken recovery? Not the speedy gonzales type, but just marching on nonetheless?

Why is there so many people so absolutely convinced there's a double dip and there's just conspiracy all around to hide it?

Plus, I'm talking about the economy in general and not isolated assets, like houses, or gold, which can up or down on it's own industry...

To wit:

In economics, we're measuring the RATE OF GROWTH. In order to double dip back into 2009's descent rate, you'll actually have to slow down at the same rate.

I simply don't see that kind of slowdown, or the trigger that will push it that way. Sluggish, yes; but 2009's descent? Consider that, companies would have to lose a huge chunk of REMAINING BUSINESS, in a scale comparable to what they lost in 2009; more people that still have jobs/house/credit now, would have to lose their credits and homes AT THE SAME RATE as 2009.. to really fall back to that.

I think it's far fetched. It's a bit like survival of the fittest out there -- after the initial cut, the remaining demand/jobs/homeowners are by definition, more durable than the ones before, and to descend at the same rate is that much harder.

Is A Gold Selloff About To Begin Any Minute Now?

"What happens if double dip doesn't happen, instead we muddle through into a drunken recovery? Not the speedy gonzales type, but just marching on nonetheless?"

70 percent consumer economy living with ever-increasing amounts of debts plus two wars plus many parasite parts of economy sucking in huge profits (catching my breath)...makes...it...most...improbable. AKA burning the candle with blow torch from both ends and from the middle.

BP's TBTF status was partially based upon its reliance by pensioners.

Vonbek777 wrote:

Wouldn't want to get pelted with that.

"The damage is proof that it wasn't a typical South Dakota thunderstorm. Holes were punched through the top of buildings, and Les Scott will never forget what it sounded like.

"A guy throwing bricks at the house and many of them and it was scary," Scott said. "

hc wrote:

In order to double dip back into 2009's descent rate

Does a double dip have to be at "2009's descent rate"?

Obummer wants more programs to save us. The latest is a new slush fund to stimulate small business lending ( is what his advisors are telling him to do) even tho he could care less about small business. Corporations are hoarding cash and so should you. Resume deflationary debt spiral.

Vonbek777 wrote:

Wouldn't want to get pelted with that.

Nor would the livestock...

REBear wrote:

Does a double dip have to be at "2009's descent rate"?

Probably doesn't have to be, but with so much money being bet on the opposite, the deleveraging could be huge.

sum luk wrote:

from: Dismal.com - How the Recession Was Beaten

Better discussion here: Paper: Policy helped avert Great Depression II 
and: Paper: Policy helped avert Great Depression II | Hoocoodanode?

Tommy Vu wrote:

were all vc's who are looking to re-define small business in order to get the cap. gains tax break

Even God knows you can't redefine or revolutionize small business without a tax break. How do you think we got the wheel?

Capital Goods Orders Rise, Showing U.S. Spending Gain (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

REBear wrote:

I hope the sub-shop owner is not a "smarta s".

'bama gonna buy me a sammich!

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

REBear wrote:
I hope the sub-shop owner is not a "smarta s".
'bama gonna buy me a sammich!

Correction:

Vic wrote:

Umm, I see a pig on top of this thread, but no new post from CR. Does anyone else see this?

Ditto

Vonbek777 wrote:

and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius.

.......oh no.......not another "Age of Aquarius"......I almost didn't survive the LAST one.....I think......

If businesses and individuals could only stop paying taxes, all our problems would just disappear.

FOXBusiness.com - SEC Says New FinReg Law Exempts It From Public Disclosure

Have you guys discussed this yet, I haven't had time to speed read through the earlier posts this morning...

Black Star Ranch wrote:

.......oh no.......not another "Age of Aquarius"......I almost didn't survive the LAST one.....I think......

Unlike bad economics and self-serving policy decisions, however, potent psychedelics actually wear off.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

.......oh no.......not another "Age of Aquarius"......I almost didn't survive the LAST one.....I think......

Apparently that was the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, and as such was a pre-celebratory phase that announced the imminent arrival of the age. But like all good ages, Aquarius likes to make a fashionable late entrance, and leaves everyone guessing when it is actually going to arrive. So I've been told.

Pie gone awry: Marlins' Coghlan tears up knee in cream pie attack - Big League Stew - MLB  - Yahoo! Sports

- New Thread

Outsider wrote:

The Fifth Dimension "Aquarius /Let The Sunshine In" (1969)

5th Dimension founders Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis are celebrating 40 years of marriage.......what an achievement. Congrats!
Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis, Jr.